Talk:Messianic Judaism/Archive 12

Merge from Christian Torah-submission
Discussion moved to talk:Christian Torah-submission

Older discussions were archived
Even though some of them weren't even that old ... apparently everything except the Christian Torah-submission argument was archived to Archive 11 on Monday, and now the argument itself has been moved to that other page. So that's why discussion here seems blank. Took me a while to figure that out. Rpresser 13:46, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
I wanted to congratulate the editing team for Messianic Judaism for keeping this article sound, in check, NPOV, sourced, and compromisingly intact. In short, I wanted to thank everyone for keeping this article safe from the round of editing wars that plagued the previous version of this article before I redrafted it last year. I know some issues have been hard to deal with, but this is just a thank you to all who in fact do contribute: Avi, ChristTrekker, Pinchas, Drbatton, Jayjg, IZAK (yes you too IZAK), P.D. and many many others. It's not often that we all work together well, but it is agreed that without you Messianic Judaism would not be getting the coverage it does deserve, no matter what views we may hold of it, if it wasn't for your patient endurance in the constant change that is wikipedia and this article. I am still unable to devote as much time editing myself - now that my firstborn son is due in a few weeks, and I'm moving in three. Long speech short, thank you for your hard work and participation. Your input has all been valued, and is very appreciated. Good job so far! inigmatus 17:26, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree; the page has grown leaps and bounds from what it originally was. I love it. If I ever had time anymore, I'd join you all in the upkeep. But until then, I pray for all of you and I am glad that this has continued. Shalom! Rivka 19:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Messianic Jewish theology
Why has that article been folded into this one? That section alone is huge, and deserving of its own article. I recall spending a goodly amount of time writing a decent section summary for it. I don't see any discussion of this. (Did I miss something?) What's going on? &hArr; ChristTrekker 17:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Outreach Judaism/Jews For Judaism
I edited the following - "In recent years these organizations have noticeably shifted their focus from opposition of Christianity to opposition of Messianic Judaism" to "In recent years these organizations have noticeably shifted their focus from opposition of Christian missionizing to opposition of Messianic Judaism", but, even then, it is wrong. Even the most cursory glances at the websites of the 2 groups named show that their primary opposition is still missionizing. So I am going to make that change as wellFlaviaR 19:46, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Definition
Does anyone else notice that the first sentence describes all of orthodox Christianity, and not just messianic Judaism? I'm not editing it as I am not a messianic, but I would like to see a better definition of Messianic Judaism that does not make Christ as Divine Savior and Jewish Messiah sound unique to messianics. All Christians believe in Christ as our Divine Savior and as the prophesied Messiah of the Jewish People. The current definition could lead to misunderstandings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathaytace (talk • contribs) 22:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems that the term "Messianic Judaism" is meant to imply two ideas: "Messianic" implies ideas about Jesus that are similar or identical to those of orthodox Christianity. "Judaism" implies that the group is Jewish and that its beliefs are a fulfillment of (as opposed to a contradiction to) Judaism. Thus, the article's first sentence explains "Messianic" and its second one "Judaism."


 * In terms of the article's possible audience, I would guess that what both Jewish and mainstream Christians would find most important about the group is whether (or to what degree) it accepts basic Christian dogma. What most Messianic adherents would probably find most important is whether (or to what degree) the group is "Jewish" or a fulfillment of Judaism. The intro addresses both of these two points in its first two sentences.Dovi 04:29, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Problem Sections
The sections on Torah and scriptural commentary are problamtic. The first states religious views as objective reality and doesn't eem to add anything to the article, but does seem, from the rest of the article, to represent the POV of a mnority of the movement. I'd like to see more sourcing in the Scriptural Commentary section, and also the changing of Y'shua to Jesus, which is the name of the founder of Christianity in English language academic publications. Basejumper2 06:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bethelnyc.jpg
Image:Bethelnyc.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 13:50, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Two links removed earlier today by IP
Anyone know a good reason for these two edits: ? Both remove links to messianic sites and were anon edits from a shared IP address. --Peter cohen 14:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Reference 47
FYI,

Ref 47. is broken but I did not touch it. Is someone coming back to it? It looks like something was started but currently is unfinished. Knight1000 (talk) 07:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC
 * ref 47 fix, issue closed Knight1000 (talk) 02:04, 26 November 2007 (UTC)