Talk:Metacarpophalangeal joint

Untitled
"... the movements of abduction and adduction are very limited, and cannot be performed when the fingers are flexed." I don't understand how the link referenced at the end of this sentence is relevant. I don't know to what "info box" the writer is referring. If that statement is true, can provide a clear reference? If I correctly understand to what motion ab/adduction refers in the context of metacarpophalangeal joints, "very limited" is appropriate, but flexion does not even inhibit (let alone prohibit) these very limited articulations. When ab/adduction occurs with the fingers extended, the tips of the fingers are displaced farther than when ab/adduction occurs with flexed fingers, but the angular displacement (and therefore, I'd guess the non-visible metacarpophalangeal articulation) is the same. Hopefully someone with a medical expertise can verify either the current version of the article, or what I perceive in my own hand. PS This is my first time to comment on a talk page, so I hope I am not about to violate some formatting protocol when I click "Save page". Lanceallenhall (talk) 14:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

OK. I think it may have been the imprecise phrase "fingers are flexed" that confused me. With both the proximal and the distal interphalangeal joints flexed, neither abduction nor adduction of the metacarpophalangeal joints is limited. Similarly, when only the metacarpophalangeal joints are flexed, abduction nor adduction of those joints remains unimpeded. It is only with the flexion of both metacarpophalangeal and at least proximal* interphalangeal joints, that metacarpophalangeal abduction and adduction are not performable. Even if someone is able to find this wording in the alleged Gray's Anatomy reference I think that "when the fingers are flexed" is not only an imprecise phrase, but this is an inaccurate use of it. The appropriate layman phrase is "when one makes a fist". The very existence of both phrases implies a distinction. That distinction would necessarily mean that flexing one's fingers refers to flexion of the interphalangeal joints alone, not the metacarpophalangeal joints. As I now see this as a linguistic issue, I feel qualified to correct the line to say, "... the movements of abduction and adduction are very limited, and cannot be performed when one makes a fist." I would personally prefer sticking to a more analytical/precise terminology (i.e. "... the movements of abduction and adduction are very limited, and cannot be performed when both the metacarpophalangeal and proximal interphalangeal joints are flexed.") but as I don't know of an official reference for any of this, I will simply change an inaccurate lay-phrase to an accurate (if still imprecise) one. If someone else agrees that the precise medical terminology is preferable, I would not at all be offended if they substituted it, and of course, if I am somehow totally incorrect in my understanding of this whole thing, qualified experts should feel free to override my adjustment. I would very much prefer the medical terminology, but just feel more comfortably sure of the lay-terminology adjustment. Anyway, if anyone ever actually reads this, thanks for taking the time to listen to me ramble. Cheers! =)

in the hand (possibly related to the inability (for most of us, though I have met exceptions) to perform either flexion or extension of the distal interphalangeal joints independently from the proximal interphalangeal joints). Lanceallenhall (talk) 15:48, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Flexion and extension of distal interphalangeal joints seem to have no effects, in regards to the movements of the other joints

For replacing, "when the fingers are flexed" I went with "while the fingers form a fist" instead of my previously stated idea, simply because it seemed to fit the sentence better than my previous revision idea. Lanceallenhall (talk) 15:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

PS Sorry about the weird formatting stuff. I don't know how to fix it. :-\ Lanceallenhall (talk) 15:58, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

This article needs to lead by saying which joint the metacarpophalangeal joint is.
The lead sentence doesn’t properly introduce this article, making it very confusing. I’m going to try to look up elsewhere and fix it. –jacobolus (t) 20:18, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've tried to fix this issue. If you find this on any other articles, please feel free to leave a message on my talk page or on the talk page at WP:ANATOMY. --LT910001 (talk) 23:19, 12 March 2014 (UTC)