Talk:Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes

Changes to infobox layout
The infobox layout there's one of the standard ones. I also reckon the extra information on the specific Konami development studio was useful and should've been left in. I won't quibble over title characterisation, the new way looks better. However, I do think that it looks a lot neater with the image inside the infobox (another part of the standard infobox format, see MGS2 or Metal Gear Solid), rather than below it. Give me a yes or no for putting it back into the infobox.

The old infobox looked a lot better; the layout was neater and it was more pleasing to the eye than that lone picture stuck at the bottom with a frame around it. I'm going to switch it back to the old way. 138.238.96.70 02:47, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

About the voice actors
I see there's some confusion about the voice actors (ie Sockatume), so this should clear it up, I hope:

This game does not have any Japanese voice acting. All versions of the game use the English voices (though I believe additional languages like German and French are included in the PAL version). All (and I mean all) of the English voice actors from Metal Gear Solid returned to record for this game. (The fact that a new person plays the Ninja is irrelevant, since the English VA who voiced the Ninja in MGS also voiced the DARPA Chief, and just voices the DARPA Chief in this). So saying "most of the principle cast" returned is incorrect. --DoubleCross 21:13, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll post my response here for clarity, but surely the absence of Rob Paulsen means that it's not the entire cast? Pedantry of the highest order, I know, and the tone of my prior edit was incorrect (it really should've said "All but one member of the original cast returned". Sorry I missed this point before, I mustn't have been paying attention to my watchlist back when you put it up. Sockatume 13:33, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * You should've mentioned that I got Rob Paulsen and Greg Eagles swapped around. ;) Sockatume 15:34, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Is the Enemies section needed?
It doesn't seem very important and isn't very well done. I suggest the removal of it and if that isn't agreed to then it seriously needs to worked on.


 * I almost deleted it immediately when I saw it. I left it though, because it's as valid a section as Weapons and no one's removed that. That being said, I'd remove them both. Outside of fanboys (who probably know anyway), who cares what model of machine gun Snake uses? If it is going to stay though, someone needs to work on it. -Hayter 15:23, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I removed it because, in addition to what was already stated, the main MGS page does not have this info either, which seems to further highlight how unnecessary it was. Michael Baptista 04:58, 14 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Hey, I'm the guy who brought up this question (I've now joined as SovietChicken). Good call.  Anyway, I was thinking do we need to have the weapons section?  Maybe just the thing at the beginning where it states the three new weapons, but is it really necessary to spell out what every single one is?


 * You are right; I followed your suggestions as this article features the differences between the original Metal Gear Solid and this iteration, so the previously introduced weapons were, as better stated by Hayter, superflourous information. Michael Baptista 03:39, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Table maybe?
I think that the voice actors section could use a table as a replacement for the poorly created paragraph of text. I don't know exactly how it should be made, just anything better than what it currently has. Thanks bunches. --Isequals 04:04, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Music
Is there any exact information on who composed what in the game? I know Steve Henifin contributed a few tracks as well as Norihiko Hibino, but there's no concise answer to who composed what tracks. -TonicBH 18:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * As listed in the game's credits, the in-game music was composed by Henefin and Dave Miner, and the cutscene music was composed by Hibino, Waichiro Ozaki, Shuichi Kobori and Toshiyuki Kakuta. (The article incorrectly says different right now, and I might be the one responsible for it). Hibino has also said that he only wrote cutscene music.


 * The game's soundtrack was never released, so I don't think anybody can say for sure who composed what tracks. There is a rip of the music available (complete with made-up track titles), but it incorrectly credits Hibino as composing everything. - DoubleCross 03:05, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Amusingly, the MusicBrainz link covers only Henifin as sole composer. Boy, this is gonna be frustrating having to rename all my MP3s I have of the music rip since I have them all credited to Hibino. -TonicBH 16:07, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Citation Needed
I've added a number of clean-up tags to the critical reaction section, specifically the claims which are unsupported. Other than giving average review scores, the section does not show any evidence that fans and/or reviewers were unhappy with the points it raises. Links to reviews taking about such things would be enough (and should be easy to find as I believe the section is largely correct), but at the moment it's just claims and weasel words. Remember that key to Wikipedia is not so much truth as it is verifiability. - Hayter 18:28, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It would be difficult to properly cite, especially a section based on fan reaction, because most of the opinions are stated in conversations or message board posts (which disappear after at time) as opposed to published reviews. However, if you simply read the message boards on MGS:TUS, or Gamefaqs, you'll see the same complaints are consistently made about the game.

I know the complaints are made - I've made some of them myself. But they need to be published by an outside respected source before they can be included in this article. If it turns out that reputable and notable publications can't be seen to verify these claims, then they have to go. That's just WP policy. An editorial on the game by IGN, Gamespot or someother such website mentioning such things would be ideal, but forums aren't great not only because they disappear, but because anyone can add their thoughts. The consequence of that is, I could start a thread on a popular forum saying how bad this game's graphics are simply so I'd be able to cite it here and include the claim in the article. - Hayter 16:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Took out the bit about MGSTS being too much like the Matrix, as the original version had parts that were like the Matrix, like when Snake first comes accross the tank and it fires at him, and it goes slow motion and he jumps back in a sort of bullet time, just missing the blast, and then sliding into a flurry of snow particles, still in bullet time with highly suspensful music. Besides, I haven't heard or read any complaints about the style, I have heard people being IMPRESSED with it, not complaining about it. So feel free to add it, but if you do change it to a positive light, saying that it is now an improvement over the original.

EDIT, proof that people were impressed by the cutscenes?

"Absolutely superb. Some of the best we've seen in a videogame. Konami should be rewarded for the cut-scenes it put together here -- and using the game engine even!" - IGN.com official review

Thank you and good day JayKeaton 16:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Rather than simply saying IGN, you should include a link to the article, otherwise it remains unconfirmed. This one could be seen as suspect, not least because it refers to Konami rather than Silicon Knights or the new director. - Hayter 20:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Here's the review: . And this is the full quote:
 * "Animation -- that is to say cut-scene motion -- is absolutely superb. Some of the best we've seen in a videogame. Konami should be rewarded for the cut-scenes it put together here -- and using the game engine even!"


 * Also, it's not really that suspect, since Silicon Knights did the gameplay stuff, and had nothing to do with any of the cutscenes - they were created by Konami, in Japan, under Kitamura's direction. (It could be the reason Konami's credited as a developer along with SK.) - DoubleCross 03:04, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Heh, IGN still fight for their reputation of mindless enthusiasm in face of a big name. As I recall, they glossed over the problems with MGS2 as well. This would be a good source for the article though. Thanks for looking it up. - Hayter 15:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

M rated
Why is this game M? I have played the original MGS for ps1 and looking back, it doesnt seem to be much worse than most T games. Can someone here who play(s)(ed) tell me what the worst, most innapropriate(cant spell that word) things in the game. I think adding something like this to most video game articles would be helpful.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 12:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * There's a lot of gore in the game. Examples include bodies being sliced and a whole lot of blood being shown. --Snkcube 04:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Its probably because it deals with terrorism and seroius theft, as in stealing nuclear weapons. Death overall is basically a main theme, and a guy does get his arm chopped off. t is very gory. Ocelot4 16:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The PS1 original dealt with the same things, but it's also very true that a lot changed in the world between 1998 and 2004. Another part notable from the original was that the scene outside Otacon/Hal Emmerich's lab where the Ninja slaughters those Genome Soldiers was quite a bit more vivid and gruesome than the original (for example, one of the dead soldiers afterward is visible with his entire chest and ribcage sliced open). Spartan198 (talk) 08:22, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

More in-depth differences...
I don't know about you, but what I really would personally want to know is how is this different from the original game. I've seen a few original game videos from YouTube and felt that the scenes progressed a bit more fluently than in the original, but could someone give me some more specific differences? The original did not have bullet-time, this is probably evident, but it would be nice to know if there were other more sigficant ways that certain major scenes differed from the original. Could someone make an in-depth list? -TheHande 19:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * A list of specific differences seems to be futile, since every cut-scene has some sort of bullet-time effects or have the characters performing some kind of exaggerated action or gesture (like the fight sequence between Snake and the Ninja in their first encounter, which wasn't even in the original). I do notice that there seems to be more scenes featuring Snake finishing off the bosses in combat.

Box art
Sort of wondering about the change of box-art. While I personally think the Euro boxart looks nicer then the one we in North America got, shouldn't this be discussed a bit first? - ZakuSage 23:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * No offense, but the North American cover is somewhat poor and unesthetic. The Euro one is not only far nicer, but the same as the original Japanese one. I belive that in order to have a nice presentation, the Euro boxart should became the main one, and leaving the North American as a secondary within the article. Mr Wesker 13:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I think this is inaccurate...
"For Twin Snakes, the original Metal Gear Solid's gameplay was altered to resemble that of Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty. While all of the original areas and enemies were kept, new ways for the player to combat them were introduced, such as the ability to shoot using first person view.[2] Enemy AI was also improved, giving enemy soldiers the ability to communicate with each other and detect the player more intelligently.[3]"

The game is built off of MGS2's engine. So saying MGS1's gameplay was tweaked is a mistatement I think. It would be better to say that the levels and gameplay of MGS2 was tweaked to create the MGS1 environment or something instead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iamstillhiro1112 (talk • contribs) 18:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC).


 * I think it's stated okay, TTS is MGS1 with MGS2 gameplay, as how it's basically written now. And the game wasn't built off of MGS2's engine, it uses a new "hybrid engine of MGS, MGS2, Eternal Darkness". --Surachit 01:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, that article sounds like it confirms what your saying. I had always been under the impression it was the MGS2 engine with levels redesigned to look like MGS1 levels. I mean, I just don't see any gameplay elements from MGS1 being worked into it.--Iamstillhiro1112 11:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Total time
I know this is a bit obsessive, but I played through the game and timed the cut scenes (including codec) and came to a total of 4 hours 33 minutes. This is not counting gameplay time; I'm just talking about all the rest up to the end when Ocelot says "Yes sir, Mr President." So if anyone is interested... I'm confident it's precise to +/- 10 minutes. --Trakon 11:57, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've got a feeling that I left out quite a bit. I was only counting the essential codec scenes; I wasn't timing during some of the shorter codec scenes that happen during the gameplay (some of which are optional). Even though they're fairly short, there's a bunch of them and they must add up. Does anyone have a documented reference to how long all the cut scenes are? --Trakon 02:34, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

way to add/mention increasing value of the game?
I think it is noteworthy that the value of this game has been silently skyrocketing due to scarcity (saw new copies on amazon going for $120, used goes well $60-80 too) Makes me laugh since my copy has a Gamestop sticker that says "$19.99 >>NEW<<" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tunafizzle (talk • contribs) 02:55, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Spanish dub removed
I dont know if this is relevant or not but while the original PSX PAL/Spain game has Spanish voice overs (BTW one of the best Spanish voice overs ever! just as good as the english one) this version is in complete english (with Spanish subtitles). I think is a significant change and may be worth mentioning in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.155.166.42 (talk) 03:16, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

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