Talk:Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater/Archive 1

Regarding my deletion of this passage (by Andre Wong):

''It has been found that on the official site, MGS3 has outrageously concepted characters like "The Pain", which controls bees by having a Queen Bee in his mouth. Among others, "The Pain" was on the so-called "leaked-document." Forum users on www.GameFAQs.com said humorous things like, "What is Kojima smoking?" We would all like to know that.''

Please learn how you're supposed to edit articles before doing so.

- Stop vandalizing this page. --DoubleCross 01:03, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

Could someone have the decency to stick spoiler tags on the thing too? Sockatume 07:24, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

- Although the page has been protected as requested, it unfortunately has the same vandalized content (by User:Andre Wong) from earlier. It needs to be reverted. --DoubleCross 17:14, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

-Sorry guys. But it's true that the leaked document has been confirmed. And the villains are real. I'm not kidding. Look on the Metal Gear Solid 3 official website for details under "Characters". "The Pain" and the other villains are real. I'm not trying to post fake things. --Andre Wong


 * It's stuff like "Forum users on www.GameFAQs.com said humorous things like, "What is Kojima smoking?" We would all like to know that." which is considered graffiti. I mean, it's frankly got no place in an encyclopedia anyway, and the characters are downright [i]normal[/i] in comparison to the other characters in the saga (a cyborg ninja, a psychic, a vampire, a woman who is invincible as payback for a run of bad luck...).

The smoking part I regret, but the characters, I swear on the pain of death, are real. At least that's what the official website says. --Andre Wong


 * I've got no doubt that they are, however you could've edited them in better (things like spoiler tags, for example). FWIW, I do think that setting the page to protected is an overreaction. Five minutes and I'd have fixed the issues. Sockatume 21:11, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Here's my suggested revision:

What band
This page mentions a band called Stellastar. I'm pretty sure there's no band called that, but tiere is one called Stellastarr*. Anyone have any confirmationa bout which band it is?

I think the band that sings the end theme is Starsailor (The Bread 03:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC))

More trivial trivia
I whacked out the following line:

"In Snake Vs. Monkey, if you look behind the red brick wall to your right when you enter the game, you will see 3 monkeys dancing on a stage and several other monkeys cheering them on."

This is just pointing out a... well, pointless detail, like "The walls are made out of bricks." Why was this put in to begin with? Is there any reason for this to be listed at all? It sounds like this is just the rambling of a young child who wants to show off everything he thinks is "cool" or "funny". If this were considered legitimate information for Wikipedia, then why not add "At the end of the game, there's a person called The Boss with a machine gun. Betcha didn't know that, huh?"[/sarcasm]

The Villains of Snake Eater
Intro re: information coming from Trailers and Konami site

The rest as it currently is.

Can we call the dispute resolved? Sockatume 21:18, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thank you. Andre Wong 21:26, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Great, now we've just got to wait for whoever protected the thing to unprotect it. Bleurgh. I'm going to throw in some extra odds and ends of information about the baddies which I've gleaned from the trailers when I get the chance. Sockatume 21:28, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

How 'bout...

Vehicles
Should there be an own section for vehicles featured in MGS3.

Aircrafts:


 * MIG 21 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig_21
 * VVA-14-WIG
 * Combat Talon
 * YF-12 Blackbird
 * D-21
 * Hover Platform
 * Hind

(Info copied from http://www.hideokojima.net/MG-Mech-Main.htm)

Landcrafts:


 * Tanks?
 * Motorcycles? (and the Easter Eggs (probably in trivia section if you like) in the license plates; MO&#1071; and KOT)

Spectre vs Combat Talon
Before changing this again, please read up on the differences between the AC-130 Spectre and the MC-130 Combat Talon. Regardless of what Snake calls it, the plane is demonstrably designed in the manner of an AC-130. The in-game plane has weapons on its port side, the MC-130 does not. The in-game plane is described as having the firepower to take out a tank, the MC-130 does not have any firepower save defensive flares. I also note that whenever this gets changed, only the name gets changed, not the designation. Having either variation of the C-130 would be an anachronism, unless you can point to a canonical reference that actually states that the plane in the game is supposed to be a "secret black op". The planes did not exist before 1967 and 1966, respectively. - Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 18:28, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I have a firm belief that it was, in fact, a Combat Talon, though specially equipped. Let me provide the conversation:

Snake: Your'e going over the border in a single Combat Talon? Zero: Settle down. She's equipped with (insert weapons here). Snake: Sounds like she could hold her own against a batallion of tanks.

From this, I can safely conclude that Snake did not know the plane was armed at first; he probably assumed that it was a standard Combat Talon. Besides, it's a video game. There are no cyborg ninjas with super-swords jumping around in real life, but do we edit Grey Fox out of Wikipedia? I think not. Village Baka 17:02, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

"That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." All that you've argued is that Snake thinks it is a Combat Talon, but is possibly wrong. Major Zero outlines all the weapons onboard, which are the exact weapons present on a Spectre. So, in fact, Snake is wrong. It is not a Combat Talon at all, but a Spectre. Kinda funny though, you'd think a badass secret operative would notice several large weapons sticking out the side of his plane :P -- Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 17:34, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

the "hovercraft" guards
could this be the vehicle they're using? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_X-Jet

I believe that that is a later version. The version used in MGS3 is a Soviet model based upon an American design from the 1950s. I forget the name of it now...but, that definitely appears to be apart of the same design lineage. - Pkmatrix

Gameplay Details
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater will have revolutionary gameplay based on camouflauge. There will be a meter called the "camouflauge index" to determine how visible the character is, on a scale of 100%. The player will be able to put on various uniforms like "Tiger Stripe" or "Olive Drab" in conjunction with face painting. There will also be a fake crocodile head to wear. Hideo Kojima has included a "Naked" camo, which is basically renders the player character shirtless. This function is for "Rambo" type players, he says.

The Camouflauge Campaign, a competition allowing people to get a chance to design a camoflauge for the game, started and ended in the early spring and summer of 2004.

I spelled camouflauge wrong.Andre Wong 21:42, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

More content
Can someone who has bought the game update this page?


 * Well, I finished it a few days ago. I guess those of us who have done the same compare notes and work on this along with the other articles (like Revolver Ocelot, Big Boss, The Patriots, Metal Gear, and so on). I got a few ideas in my head, but I need to sort them out. --Paul Soth 21:32, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I beat the game today!!!11one!! Updating now. It's awesome!Andre Wong 22:59, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Again, we do need to update, because we haven't even TOUCHED the "Philosopher's Legacy." Obviously, that is a major part of MGS3. Andre Wong 01:04, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Reverting Speculation on relationships
Who put the info concerning Ocelot being the son of The Boss, or that Boss is Sorrow's wife? That's PURE speculation, and there's nothing in the game that supports it. Lover of Sorrow? Possibly (but "wife", give me a break). But the part about Ocelot is just speculation. In fact, the child of Boss and the Sorrow is more likely to be Psycho Mantis than Ocelot, think about it. Terrapin 16:33, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * It's from that "Leaked Document." And it can't be Mantis, he's too young for starters, and his background doesn't match at all. --Paul Soth 03:39, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

- Leaked document confirms that Ocelot is the son of The Boss and The Sorrow. The picture shown during the relevant cut-scene looks exactly like Ocelot. It makes sense, since the child was taken by the Philosophers, and Ocelot ultimately works for the American branch of the Philosophers (Patriots). --169.229.67.112 05:17, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * That may be, but Leaked document is NOT canon, and that's what Wikipedia goes by. It's not even confirmed to be for real.  If you want, you can say "...may be...according to the leaked document, but which is not canon..." Terrapin 15:00, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * After playing through MGS3, its pretty obvious that nearly every aspect of the leaked document was dead on. Also, for further proof that Ocelot is indeed the son of The Boss, call Eva after defeating him in the boss fight (near the crevice). She will tell you that he was born on the battlefield, the son of a legendary warrior who carries snake-shaped scars on her body (obviously referring to The Boss, who later mentions having a child in Normandy and does indeed have said scars), and that his father was a legendary solider as well. All the evidence clearly points to it being true.  169.229.106.118 18:29, 30 Nov 2004

True 'dat. After you fight the Boss, then you see her scars and they sort of "slither" away. Weirdness. As for the Sorrow and The Boss's relationship, it just said that they were partners in combat because the Boss was also known as the Joy. Speaking of "relationships," I put in that Volgin was bisexual, as seen with Ivan Raidenovich Raikov. I hope this is right, please correct it if not.Andre Wong 01:00, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Ocelot is the son of The Boss and The Sorrow. If you call EVA following the boss fight with Ocelot, she explains that Ocelot was taken from his parents on the battlefield. Later, The Boss explains that her son was taken from her on the battlefield in 1944, which is twenty years prior to the game, and Ocelot is twenty years old in appearance. Major Zero and SIGINT explain that The Sorrow was a medium for spirits. This explains why Ocelot was a medium for Liquid Snake's spirit in Metal Gear Solid 2. Sure, it isn't stated outright, but if Ocelot isn't her son, then it's extremely poor storytelling to leave so many loose ends that also coincidentally all match up. In the future, I recommend playing through the game repeatedly and experiencing every conversation and aspect before making a blanket statement that this is "pure speculation", because it is supported by many facts that all tie together. Naked Snake 17:58, 2 Dec 2004

"In fact, the child of Boss and the Sorrow is more likely to be Psycho Mantis than Ocelot, think about it" Yeah, because Psycho Mantis killed his father, and his mother died in childbirth. Naked Snake 22:20, 2 Dec 2004

"it's extremely poor storytelling to leave so many loose ends that also coincidentally all match up." You see, there's a little thing called a "story planning". When this "story planning" happens, things that didn't make sense later make perfect sense, according to the mysterious plans of a divine figure known as a "storywriter". Curious, no?[/sarcasm]

Really man. Get your act together.

Quotes page?
Can a quotes page be added for the MGS3 section? This game has some great quotes.


 * Go to the project front page. Look along the bottom. See wikiquote? Good. If you're the same person who asked about putting quotes pages into MGS and MGS2, which I also explained and then slapped a Wikiquote link on for, I'm going to lamp you. Sockatume 13:11, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"There is room for only one Boss!" "Those mushrooms recharged my batteries!" "When I stepped into that cardboard box...I felt a sense of inner peace." Andre Wong 02:36, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"Beginnings of the Legend" section
Is this section even necessary? It looks like nothing but a biased bunch of crap. Like some fanboy runoff about how wonderful and magical the game is. It's definitely non-NPOV. I was just going to delete it, but maybe someone can fix it so that it isn't so glaringly biased.--DoubleCross 05:03, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)


 * No, it's not necessary. It's actually non-encyclopedic, fairly speculative (Kojima's plot points don't always move in logical ways (to be polite), so you can't say this leads directly to the previous games) and redundant. I was BOLD, and deleted it.  Terrapin 15:41, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

disappointed
I was very disappointed with this game i thought there was alot of aspects the makers could have improved on.

thats nice.........but you dont have to tell us on wiki, this isnt a forum or discussion board, Don't use talk pages as a chatroom or bulletin board..Tik 16:07, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

"The Sorrow"'s zombie-river sequence
Would it be appropriate to make reference to the nightmarish scene that appears when Naked Snake dives off the waterfall? I thought this was noteworthy as the only apparent way of exiting it was to let Snake die - a gameplay 'solution' I've not seen before. Sticksoft 20:00, 21 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Eh, it's rare but not unique. Planescape: Torment also requires you to die at certain points. Also, it's probably too spoilerific? I dunno. --Golbez 20:04, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

as does elder scrolls 3: morrowind, to attain a sword you have to drown yourself. i dont think its worth noting, too much.Tik 16:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

And Silent Hill requires you to die at the start. Joe 042293 17:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Storyline
I have to say, I feel the storyline section as it currently stands is horribly written. It dwells on many insignicant things in the game (ie. Major Zero's history), skips over useful plot points (like Snake actually meeting Ocelot for the first time) contains passages that are badly written (a C-130 Hercules doesn't "hover" over anywhere) and contains references which don't seem to have any basis in the game reality (EVA is certainly not the real EVA, but the game specifically says that ADAM and EVA are two people). I'm curious why the version I wrote was summarily reverted to the seemingly less accurate version used prior. - Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 06:41, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Specifically, the fact that EVA admits she isn't the real EVA does not mean there is no real EVA. EVA was never supposed to be at the meeting. The game specifically states that two people, ADAM and EVA defected. It also mentions that EVA is a man. EVA is a real person in the game continuity, but not necessarily present in the game. - Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 06:56, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Additionally, EVA (Tanya) disappears in Hanoi 4 years after the end of the game. The wording prior to mine makes it sound like she disappears in Hanoi at the end of the game storyline. - Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 07:25, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Better get used to me. I'll be staying for awhile... ;)


 * By all means, stay. Please stop adding innacuracies to the article though. It's also helpful if you sign talk page responses with four tildes ( ~ ) - Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 07:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia is for everybody


 * Indeed it is. Again, I'm not asking you to not edit. I'm asking you to please make sure you present accurate information. Wikipedia doesn't help anybody when it's wrong. - Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 07:46, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Lets get this straight then, ADAM is Ocelot and EVA is a character we do not know of. End of discussion.

"Stealth" camo needs to be added..
The camo sections are really well done, but the Stealth camo is missing (possibly because the Stealth camo not well-known?). It can be obtained in the game by either shooting ALL of the Kero-tan frogs in one playthrough OR by being detected zero times. Both are pretty difficult, but you get a Stealth camo that acts as the one in MGS1, rendering the wearer completely invisible. Seeing as I haven't actually had the chance to play with this particular camo, I don't know if the enemy soldiers are smart enough on higher difficulty levels to wear thermal goggles and fight you while you're Stealthed, but it warrants a mention in any case. --TK


 * It was most likely not included because it doesn't belong in the camo section - it's an item, not a camo pattern. - DoubleCross 06:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * All that I know Stealth camo is somekind of little machine, maybe it was used by The Fear. All that I know is IMPOSSIBLE to be undetected zero times (Remember the part when Snake got captured and you have to escape from Groznyj Grad? How the hell you can go out without being detected?At least you will make caution phase)but some game-fans speak on internet that you can get it with defeating The Fear non-lethally(Not using any killing weapon like AK-47 etc.).You can use Mk22 or EZ gun or the Mosin Nagant rifle,or the better part,poisoning with throwing some poisonous foods when his stamina get half.(Dart Poison Frog,Flying Algaric mushrooms,or rotten foods if you have)

Camouflage uniform obtaining details need to be added...
Just like the person who stated that the camo sections are well done, I agree, but you are still missing some important details, like where one might be able to obtain the camouflage uniforms. I just thought that there are people out there who have never owned a Metal Gear Solid game, and are maybe just a little bit curious as to where they might be able to obtain the camouflage uniforms. I would also like to state that it would nice if someone would add a wikipedia page about hints and such about MGS3. I would like this, because I am in school currently, and I am unable to access sites that are restricted by the school's internet filter. I can only go to a few sites, and none of them have the necessary materials I need in order to learn stuff I would like to learn about the game. For examples of stuff I would like to see, I would like to see a hints page, or a walkthrough.--AGE


 * Wikipedia is not GameFAQs. (Try Wikibooks instead.)  I'm genuinely sorry you suffer from restrictive filtering rules, but that issue is between you and your school.  Walkthroughs, FAQs, and game guides don't belong on Wikipedia; this article is just meant to be a description of the game and its contents. – Wisq 05:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I realize what your are trying to say, but aren't walkthroughs just a really detailed description of the game and it's contents? I mean, a walkthrough is just a way of helping people, which I realize is what you are trying to do, and informing them with descriptions of sections, item locations, hunting tips, what kind of cures are used for each various wound, among other things, isn't it?--AGE


 * Right, but that's way beyond the level of detail needed or wanted in an encyclopedia article. You describe what the game is, what happened in it, how that relates to the rest of the game's fictional world, how the gaming community received it, etc.  You don't discuss walkthrough things like level layouts, guard positions, boss strategies, Kerotan positions, etc.  Those things just aren't important in the grand scheme of things, and including them would be like putting the transcribed script of a movie into its article, or the lyrics of every song a band has ever made onto that band's page.  There are other resources for those.  This is just an encyclopedia.  Ideally, it's for people who have never played the game and want to know about it.  Players already know most or all of this stuff, and they can get more in-depth information from gaming walkthrough sites. – Wisq 19:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I still understand, but I too am one who has never played the game. I also agree that I wouldn't like to know every single detail about the game, just more than just the basics. I would just like to know what to do in some minor situations. I would also like to know where the camouflage uniforms can be located, as stated in my first statement.--AGE

For the third time, WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A GAME FAQ. If you understood (which you obviously don't) then you'd realize that WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A GAME FAQ. When you open up an encyclopedia in a library, and look up the term "video game console", does it give a list of all consoles ever created, all the games ever created for them, every person involved in all of their development, and a walkthrough with hints and tips for each game? No.

If you want to find a walkthrough or guide for Snake Eater, try a site like GameFAQS or Game Winners. Don't be stupid enough to use school computers; use library computers, or better yet, USE YOUR OWN. Pardon my bluntness, but people like you don't seem to be persuaded by rational conversation.

Just in case you forgot during my rambling, WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A GAME FAQ. Village Baka 08:28, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, 1. I understand, and I stated that I do not want to know every single detail about the game, and I just requested a walkthrough, 2. When I looked up "Video Game Consoles" in Wikipedia, it had a list of 6th and 7th gen consoles, game timelines, and a link to a list of video game consoles, and 3. Every single computer available to me is unavailable to me, if that makes any sense. So, as I stated. I am unable to get to any computer that has no internet filter and is capable of my usage. If I had a computer, do you think I would've kept this up as long as I have? Come on, man, Do you think I'm retarded!? p.s. That was the end of this whole conversation, so if you post back, I will not read, or even acknowledge.

Sorry for offending you. I was in a particularly bad mood yesterday. If you are so desperate for this, send some contact information (e-mail address or whatever) to VillageBaka13@Hotmail.com, and I'll put together a list of all the camoflages and face paints I know of and where to get them. See? I'm not so nasty after all. Oh, and try to remember to end your posts with four tildes (~ is a tilde) so that it will show your name. Otherwise it's a little tough to figure out who is talking.

P.S. (To everyone else; don't edit out my e-mail address "for my protection". It is a junk account that I created specifically for situations like this where giving out my address might result in it getting spammed) Village Baka 18:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Sigint's section under "supporting characters"
Within the "supporting characters" section it says under Sigint "There are indicators that he is the DARPA cheif Donald Anderson in Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (MGS), including the fact that Sigint joined ARPA after the Snake Eater which later turned into DARPA. The age also matches because in Snake Eater he is in his 20's and in MGS he is in his 60's."

In my opinion, this seems to more than neutrally imply that Sigint and Anderson are the same. Personally, I believe that Sigint and Anderson are two completely different, seperate persons. Also, unless I'm mistaken, does it then say that Anderson was in his 60's during MGS1? If it does, what is the source then on this?

It doesn't matter any more. I've changed it so that it's more neutral.

Axing the following line
I'm axing this from the entry:

The Sorrow also informs Snake that 'his sons will kill him', alluding to the outcome of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.

Only one Snake killed Big Boss and the Sorrow says "You will all...", not "You will" which shows he is referring to more than Big Boss, which in itself makes the Sorrow perplexing, for Big Boss is the only one alive there.

Weapons

 * Patriot - should there be a mention that the very same weapon (with an infinite barrel) featured in MGS2 in the place where you shot the Nikita missile.

Quotation at the end of MGS2
At the end of MGS2 Snake talks about joys and sorrows of life. Coincidence or not it would be nice to get a confirmation whether he's using the same words that are the names of the bosses in Japanese version of MGS3.

Trivia section...
Regarding this piece of "trivia" : "When the protagonist's name appears on screen with the name of the voice actor, instead of saying Naked Snake it says Jack, another reference to Raiden."

Snake is refered to as "Jack" and "John" several times throughout the game- Jack being a nickname for John, and vice versa. Is there any reason why we should think that his being named "Jack" is a reference to Raiden? 147.240.236.9 14:01, 10 April 2006 (UTC)Roy


 * He's called Jack when you start off by picking "I love Metal Gear Solid 2", and Snake is wearing the soldier's mask that resemble's Raiden --th1rt3en 15:32, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * According to the wiki page about Big Boss: "In the Metal Gear Solid 3: Shedding booklet included with the Official DVD: The Extreme Box DVD set (authored by Hideo Kojima himself), Naked Snake's real name is listed as "Jack," contradicting the information supplied to Konami's official website and other published sources stating that Jack is only a nickname.[1] The debate was finally settled in the eighth session of the Kojima Productions Report, when Kojima himself revealed in an interview that both names are valid as Jack and John are common nicknames for each other."
 * If Kojima himself is saying that it's Snake's name, and if there is official material putting Jack as his name, I don't see why it should be seen as a reference to Raiden. Given how common John and Jack are as names, and given that there is official material indicating that it's Boss' name, it seems questionable that it's supposed to be an allusion to Raiden. 147.240.236.9 14:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)Roy

I dont know if its noteworthy, but the FOX logo, in the background of the title menu, is the same as that of the Kojima studios logo. Rdog 18:34, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Technically, the Kojima logo is the same as the FOX logo. Kojima Productions was only recently formed (more recent than Snake Eater, if I'm not mistaken).

As for the name, it is possible the Raiden was named Jack out of respect. If you remember MGS2, Solidus says that he gave him the name "Jack". This might have been out of respect or admiration of Big Boss, as Solidus is one of his "sons". Village Baka 21:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Game Rankings
Hello,I have been looking everywhere for a list of possible game rankings you can achieve once you beat the game and the conditions for them. I believe this would be a good adition to this article.
 * Try here http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/metal_gear_solid_3_codename_ranking.txt, not sure it's appropriate for the article per discussions above...ka1iban 16:18, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

That is not an appropriate addition. That would be considered Walkthrough/Guide information, and remember: Wikipedia is not a GameFAQ.

As long as you keep links and stuff like that out of the main article, there's no problem. Village Baka 21:37, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

The Philosophers' Legacy
Surely I had the notion that The Philosophers' Legacy was used by Naked Snake at the end of the game in him building up Zanzibar Land? (Or was that Outer Heaven?). I cannot find any reference to this within the main article.

I wouldnt be sure how that worked out. From what I can remember of the ending, he never hands the Legacy back.. or, if he does, maybe he somehow takes a partion from it?

How else does Big Boss able to fund the mercenary company he so rightly forms?

I am hoping that someone could shed some light upon this.

No, Big Boss DID NOT use the Philosopher's Legacy to fund the creation of Outer Heaven. Ocelot says in the phone-conversation at the end that half of the Legacy made it back to the United States, and in the timeline at the end, it said that the US branch acquired the remainder of the Legacy in 1970. As for the building up of Outer Heaven, Big Boss used the money he earned from his days as a mercenary to fund the creation of Outer Heaven (check the Metal Gear 1 section of the "previous operations" in MGS1 for proof).

EZ Gun
That merge notice has been up there for far too long, and some action needs to be taken. I originally thought of just adding the info to this article, but there's no weapons section. I'm thinking of creating a page for MGS3 items and weapons. Anyone want to help? -- Steel 16:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't even see a section that explains why the articles should be merged. I'll remove the tag. -- Tuspm  [Leave A Message] 01:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Second Paragraph?
Cheesy dialogue making the game amoral? Compared to other video games, MGS3 is far from amoral, and the dialogue far from cheesy. Plus this gets put in the second paragraph as if it is an important aspect of the game.

CPT Spaz 02:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Subsistence merge
As Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence is essentially the same game (just with rather substantial extra material), do they really need to be two articles? Integral is part of the main Metal Gear Solid article and it looks like the two Metal Gear Solid 2 articles are being merged. Ace of Sevens 23:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * They should not be merged. The Subsistence article is too big. I've removed the merging tag you put on Subsistence (link) because of the reason I stated above and you did not put an explaination of why they should be merged at the Subsistence talk page. If you can provide a much better reason on why they should be merged, go ahead and put the tag back on. -- Tuspm  Talk 18:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Most of that is the online mode, which I think would be a good candidate for a separate page itself. Ace of Sevens 19:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Eva and the james bond idea
Is eva taken from the james bond love idea? (just a thought)

Lombers 15:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think so. --Golbez 15:42, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, EVA is referred to as Tatyana (Tanya for short), like the Bond girl in From Russia with Love, one of the films referenced by Para-Medic when saving. Combined with the other nods to 007 in the game (the opening credits sequence and song), it's pretty likely it was intentional. -- Nick RTalk 19:34, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Who had the Philosophers' Legacy?
I'm asking for a citation because I've played through the game, read the script and rewatched the cinematics and it never says that Snake was the one who actually brought the PL microfilm to the USA (that I can see). Is it spelled out somewhere in Subsistence (which I haven't bought yet)? On some reputable website? In an interview with Kojima somewhere? I'm not saying it was Ocelot, but if you can't cite where the info comes from, the wording whould be changed to reflect that it is actually unclear how the PL film goes to the US. Heck, maybe The Boss just air-mailed the real one :P -- Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 21:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, sorry I just said 'but', I pressed enter before I'd finished typing -_-. Anyway, in the ending, we see Snake holding the Legacy, while he is listening to EVA's recorded message, which most people don't usually see unless you are paying attention. Ocelot never even touches the Legacy as far as we see, and it is implied that Boss gave EVA the fake microfilm, as she knew that EVA was a Chinese agent. Therefore, EVA didn't steal the film from Snake, either not knowing he had it, or thinking he had the fake one, leaving Snake to hand in the Legacy, although half of it dissapeared. I'm guessing Snake stole half of it to set up Outer Heaven. The Haunted Angel 22:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I know the part in the end with Snake and the film, but the way Snake offhandedly tosses away the film he has after EVA leaves makes me wonder if he believes he has the real one. In addition, it's not really clear that The Boss gives EVA any film, even a fake (all she says is "I got...", from the Boss? From Snake? From Volgin even?). It's a fact that by the absolute end, EVA has a fake, but when and how she got it is open to speculation. It also seems a little ambiguous as to how the real film actually gets back. Ocelot knows the US has it, but has no obvious mechanism for knowing. Snake doesn't act like he thinks he has it. It makes me wonder if maybe credit for handing it over shouldn't just be eliminated and replaced with something like "through the machinations of Operation Snake Eater, the US government manages to acquire the Legacy microfilm." Until someone like Kojima comes out and says for sure, its all just speculation which shouldn't really be presented as fact in the article. -- Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 16:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

True, but we do see Snake with the Legacy at the end of the game, so it must be assumed that he bought it back, although it should be added that it is possible that he is in possession of a fake, although it is strongly implied that he has the real one. As for him not acting like he has it, well he is still devestated about him having to kill the Boss, so he really isn't impressed about the legacy, although in my own personal specualtion, I reckon it was he who took half the legacy in vengance for America forcing him to kill the Boss, and with it he sets up Outer Heaven, but this is irrelivant. The Haunted Angel 16:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Like I said, it might be worth it to just say the US operation ended up with them getting the Legacy rather than who specifically did it, as it all gets very ambiguous about who has what for real. As to the last point, the text epilogue says "1970 - The United States accumulates the remainder of the Legacy. The US branch of 'Philosophers' changes its name to the 'Patriots.'" ;) -- Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 15:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Does it? Hmm I must have missed that point, thanks for letting me know. It does indeed start getting confusing of who has what, but the last source that we know of states that Big Boss has either the legacy, or a copy. So until a future game (Portable Ops or Guns) states what actually happened, it should be written that it is implied that Big Boss bought back the Legacy, although the idea that Big Boss had a fake is very plausible. --The Haunted Angel 18:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you may note I've altered the article section a bit. Basically it now states that EVA/China had a fake (somehow, since we don't see how actually), the US has a real one (probably because of Big Boss, but maybe because of Ocelot). -- Le Scoopertemp [  tk  ] 18:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I read it, nice work ^_^ --The Haunted Angel 21:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC)