Talk:Metallica/Archive 4

Metallica Icon
Someone needs to put that event in the bio. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.97.35.21 (talk) 04:02, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Band Members
It seems to be there is the same problem here with the Megadeth page. The listing of band members was laid out in a table that was easy to read and gave a good visual representation of who was in the band when and for how long. I think the original table was much less confusing. I am changing it back to the original one. Mobus 04:38, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Take a look on Pantera's Wiki page. There is a VERY easy to comprehend chart there on band members though it lacks specifics included on this one. Whichever though, they're both good. Typical convention is time moves left to right where Metallica's moves top to bottom making Pantera's a little faster to descern. Can't complain if ya don't help, right? So I'll stay quiet.


 * Semi-randomly browsing has brought me Mike Inez's page, that insinuates from 2002-2003 Inez played bass before Rob officially left Black Label Society (they alledgedly made a straight swapover). Anyone cast any light on this? MonstaPro 20:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * James also plays lead guitar. (Whiskey in the Jar, Nothing else Matters sm version) I'm going to add that.

Logo
What happened to the logo in the infobox? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 19:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, and while the picture replacing the logo is captures the Burton-lineup well, a current photo would be more suited for the info box. - Cyrus XIII, July 20th, 2006

DVD Audio
Don't forget to include in the article the release of the Black album on DVD Audio. --MarioV 22:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Improved the Discography
I've made a number of wording changes to the Discography section. Much of the info included was NPOV and there was also a significant amount of weasel wording. In addition, a lot of it was worded in ways that were awkward at best and misleading at worst, which I've done my best to improve.

I would also suggest removing the links to individual years and dates as I can't see how it helps the article or a reader and is just another thing adding to the swelling page size... what do others think? DavidLaurenson 15:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll get rid of them. There is no use for them. --Thundermaster367 13:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Alcohol
"By this stage the band had become infamous for their extensive use of alcohol, so much so, that they were often nicknamed "Alcoholica". Alcohol had become an integral part of their music and performance, and would continue to be for many years."

I've removed this following paragraph because:

a) The Alcoholica nickname isn't really important or relevant to anything.

b) The second sentence is just plain misleading, leading a reader to think that their music was defined by alcohol and that they were all incapable of playing a show without being drunk, which is just plain wrong. DavidLaurenson 17:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty relevant to the history of Metallica as far as I'm concerned. They were known for their excessive drinking and eventually James had to go to rehab for it.Cdwillis 11:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken i think that James Hetfield him self has admitted that some of the lyrics in that stage was effected by the excessive drinking, and that he didn't realize it until after the rehab. I think that makes it relevant.

It makes it very relevant. The alcohol use even affected the bands studio recording for St. Anger. Keep it in. XXLegendXx 17:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I also believe it's relevant, it's been mentioned in documentaries about the band and should be mentioned here. Vicco Lizcano 18:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC) (Tell me where I'm wrong)

Absolutely leave it in. A band isn't just the sound they make on stage.

Deicide rules!!!!!!!!!!!!

Video?
It is said it the article that Metallica made a video("One") despite claims of never releasing one...... I have seen this claim many times, but did Metallica actually claim that? what's the source of that? - It's a joke/running gag amongst Metallica fans, mainly due to the fact that many TV shows/news articles about the band ignore the fact that "One" was the group's first music video and instead falsely claim that "Enter Sandman" was the first video Metallica made simply because Enter Sandman is the group's first big hit with the mainstream... - That wasn't my question, I meant that in many places, including wikipedia is sais that many fans of the band thought metallica "sold out" with their first video because they stated they will never make a video. Now, my question is - did they really state that? are there any refrences? AnoreX 20:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

--70.124.132.176 02:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC) - Lars explained this in the MTV Icon: Metallica special..--R-Tiztik 21:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

missing bass on "...and justice for all"
The article states that the most likely reason for the perceived absence of bass guitar is that Jason was absent during the mixing sessions and thus unable "to affect the final mixing process". Are we to understand that the only person in the room who knew what a bass guitar is supposed to sound like, was Jason ? Or did his absence cause them to forget all about it ? Something smells fishy about the whole thing. Omega Man 22:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe that, regardless of whether or not he was there, the down-mixing of the bass was done deliberately. However, until something is officially said about it, anything that gives reasons for it is most likely speculation. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 03:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I believe it was in the making of the Black Album video that Lars had mentioned rushing through production of ...And Justice and using left-over lyrics and riffs. In another source, (that could have very well been the same video) Jason had griped about his bass being tuned out, and the feeling I got was that the band wasn't quite sure of him and his abilities at that point. Could he match Cliff? VIOLENTflem 13:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC) ViolentFlem

Awards
I found out only the grammies listed here, so I added the other awards months back, recently I found about two more awards which I have listed here again;
 * 1999: Catalog Artist of the Year: Metallica
 * 1999: Catalog Album of the Year: Metallica (The Black Album)

also I read it that the album is still on charts after 700weeks, 14yrs (black album that is) i believe it should be mentioned somewhere. Akeeq 17:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

As of now I have added the following paragraph

The Black Album is also tied for the 26th spot of highest selling album of all time in USA. In 2005 after 14 years of its release the album was still #11 on the Top Pop Catalog Chart. It has been on the charts for well over 700 weeks.

reference: http://www.mac-archive.com/metallica/sales.html Akeeq 17:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Why did someone remove this without any mention as to WHY!? Its back in the article, The Black Album is also tied for the 26th spot of highest selling album of all time in USA. In 2005 after 14 years of its release the album was still #11 on the Top Pop Catalog Chart. It has been on the charts for well over 700 weeks. Akeeq 20:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

18th Biggest Commercial Act?
I read here; http://www.mac-archive.com/metallica/sales.html that it is the 16th biggest act, any references to the 18th digit? should it be changed to 16? Akeeq 17:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Apppearance on The Simpsons
This was listed twice in appearances for some reason with slightly different wording each time. I fixed this. anonymous 71.226.17.185 02:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Successful Cover Bands?
I just had the thought, "why is apocalyptica not mentioned on the page?" If it is, sorry for not noticing. But back to the point, I think there should be a list of (keyword here is) successful bands that have done well written and played arrangements of metallica songs.

... It was just a thought. Duckmurderer 05:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely. To show the scope and impact of Metallica to those with no understanding whatsoever other successful bands primarily performing as Metallica cover bands should be mentioned. Besides, I've used Apocalyptica several times to at least partially turn people who flinch at the words 'thrash metal.'

Classical cover version
I remember having heard in 2000 a cover version of Metallica played exclusively on classical string intruments (double bass, and perhaps cello). Does anyone know the reference of this recording ? Baronnet 12:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You're probably talking about Finnish cello-band Apocalyptica and their albums Plays Metallica by Four Cellos and Inquisition Symphony.--Serte 14:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I think there might also be a string quartet tribute album (like there is, for example, SOAD and Tool) to Metallica. Not sure tho. 212.213.90.13 14:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed, there is a string quartet tribute album named "Say Your Prayers Little One" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Quartet_Tribute). Could be that or the Apocalyptica albums.
 * 212.213.90.13 14:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Pluralise!
Metallica IS? Or Metallica ARE? There is more than one person in the band, they are not a single entity. There is is no consistency on this issue either as the phrase "the band were" is frequently used rather than "the band was" which would be correct if the band was one person or a single entity (depending on context). 194.221.133.226 09:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)The K Man


 * I was just about to post exactly the same query. I think in America, bands are normally regarded as singular, I've always taken it as plural. If I may say, you're slightly wrong in that "the band was" is technically correct, because the band is a single entity, however, the band contains a plural number of people. There's no centre Wikiproject to which we can refer, so I'm not sure how we can solve it. SteveLamacq43 00:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I just spent some time browsing for an answer to this, without anything to link to. At least with anything definitive. Metallica is a band. Metallica is an entity. There is only one. The guys are in the band that is Metallica. We don't say the Government are fools (sorry), and Enron were a company, and so on. I say we stick with is as long as it sounds right. Jimcripps 02:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Further to that...what "sounds right" is not always what's correct on Wikipedia. The Wikipedia rule is: American subject=American English rules and any non-US subjects get International(referred to as UK English here on Wikipedia) rules. IE. "Metallica is"..IS correct since they are an American band. "Motorhead are", "Iron Maiden are", "Judas Priest are" ARE all correct too as they are UK subjects and therefore follow UK English rules where the subject is treated as a plural. Anger22 02:39, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Where is it stated the difference between American english rules and UK english rules? XXLegendXx 17:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Failed GA
As of 25 October 2006, per WP:WIAGA, here's my assessment of this article: Conclusion: I failed this article for GA, mainly for lack of citations. There are a lot of unreferenced quotes and unsourced facts. Please supply them with reliable sources to conform verifiability of this article. After all the above matters are solved, then this article can be renominate it again. If you feel disagree with my review, you can always submit this article to WP:GA/R. Cheers. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 08:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * (criterion 1.a) – Prose is compelling, but there are some orphaned paragraphs (only one-sentence paragraph) to be merged with others. Remove all inexact terms, such as "currently", "present", etc., per WP:MOS.
 * (criterion 1.b) – The lead section appears to be more advertising rather than summarizing the article.
 * (criterion 2.a) – This is my main concern for this article to have GA status. There are a lot of unsourced facts. Some sections have no source at all. Some templates have been put there as a reminding for the editors to supply them with reliable sources. I've put also some inline citation needed tags, mostly on quotes. Also all trivia have to be sourced.
 * (criterion 2.d) – There is a speculative sentence, that leads to WP:OR:
 * It is uncertain if Burton was dead at this point or not.
 * Very little of Newsted's bass is audible, and some fans speculate this was done intentionally as a reaction to Burton's death or as a way of hazing Newsted.
 * (criterion 6.a) – There are some copyrighted images with lack of fair use rationale for this article. Please fix this.


 * I'll be working on this to archieve a good status, striking completed/uneeded criteria. Michaelas10 (T|C) 18:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Umm...Is that a Joke?
Why the hell are there so many citation needed tags in the mainstreem section? In my opinion, a lot of those statements do not need citations at all...It looks very bad and suggests that no research has been done. I think that much better judgement should be used when adding those tags. For example, Metallica increased their audience, the guitar was thin, this was their more structurally complex, etc. do not need citations. Just my thoughts, anybody agree or disagree? Whoever added all of those tags, I would appreciate an explanation just so I know why they were placed there (I could be completely wrong about this, I was want to know why I am wrong if I am) Wikipediarul e s 2221 06:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * No, it is not a joke. It is part of GA review, see above. Yes, it looked bad, because there are so many unsourced sections and facts. Every trivia should be sourced. Every quotes should be sourced. Every facts/figures/numbers should be sourced. Every sentences that raise doubts should be sourced. And especially for biography living person article, every negative statements about the subject should be sourced. Now, replace those tags with your reliable source. Otherwise remove the whole line. Remember, there is no such a common knowledge. One common knowledge for someone may not be common knowledge to someone else. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

YES, it is a joke, they don't need citations (unsigned comment by Dimedude)

Arithmetic: 57,000,000+35,000,000 > 90,000,000
Am I missing something, or is part of the information in the second sentence somewhat banal? - Sure, I think I get the idea: The author wanted to stress the total without leaving out the information on where how many albums were sold--but it really sounds odd. Maybe split the sentence and mention first the info broken down geographically, and in the next sentence say something like "The resulting total of..."?? But does all of this info actually have to be in the intro at all? Maybe the geographical break-down cut be moved to further down in the article? --Ibn Battuta 23:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Artwork needs caption tying it to Metallica
Artwork needs caption tying it to Metallica. BabuBhatt 21:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I can find no reasoning to have "Devil's D-day" in the article. Can anyone clue me in? Jimcripps 18:48, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

References, Sources
Okay, I'm having trouble adding sources, but I can provide a lot of links here so that any of you can add them at their respective places. Anyone upto it? Akeeq 14:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Just for starters;

The following Trivia can be referenced as follows;

Metallica's early works include references to the writings of horror/sci-fi author H.P. Lovecraft. The song "The Call of Ktulu" alludes to the name of the Lovecraft tale "The Call of Cthulhu," and the lyrics to the song "The Thing That Should Not Be" quotes from "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," a story by the same author.[citation needed]

http://www.encycmet.com/songs/srktulu.shtml

Akeeq 14:31, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Another reference;

Recently, Hammett played with Tool in a show during the song Sober and described the event on Metallica's official web site as "one of the most profound jamming experiences I have ever encountered."[citation needed]

http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?1=1&item=103338

I would appriciate if someone can add these references, as I'm not very familiar how to do it. And lemme know I'll give more references.

Akeeq 14:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Come on now do it someone!! Akeeq 15:34, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Would love to help but I'm a novice so let me just add my own 'Come on now do it someone!!' Everybody is right so far that Metallica deserves a top-notch article.

Image removal
Removing the band's image because, "they can be possibly pictured again" seems very silly to me, since this also means that every fair-use image of a living person should be removed. I'm having trouble finding any free image of them online, as the most of them are either copyrighted or don't have their copyright status mentioned. Does anyone have a decent picture of them, such as in a concert or something? I can't see how this will get a good status otherwise.  Michaelas10   (Talk)   18:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Problem with logo
I noticed that the image of the logo isn't appearing on the page. It doesn't even work when I put it outside the infobox.

Image:Metallica_logo.svg

See, it doesn't appear here either. I think it may have something to do with the transparent background.

Can someone replace it with a version that has a white background and see if it works then? --Machchunk | make some noise at me 06:39, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Just to add, the same type of image appears in the infobox on the KISS page with no problems. --Machchunk | make some noise at me 06:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I took out the pixel size, and it shows. Must have something to do with the 'thumb' attribute and pixel width together, or the width size was incorrect. Also replaced the blank with the underscore. Jimcripps 18:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Metal Up Yer Ass
This site states that Kill 'Em All was originally going to be called "Metal Up Yer Ass" instead of "Metal Up Your Ass". Wikipediarul e s 2221 05:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Speed Metal
Is Metallica also a Speed Metal band?

No. 61.5.151.220 20:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. It is included in List of speed metal bands and Kill'em ALl is mentioned in Speed metal article. The genre must be mentioned.Garret Beaumain 15:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Dude...Metallica is just metal...not speed metal or thrash metal...that crap came later...Metallica is just pure american metal (Iron James 04:18, 6 August 2007 (UTC))

Regarding Demos
It has been thought that the metallica demo articles I wrote should be deleted, please help out by improving the articles. Thank you.

-Omaster

A few problems I have with the article
In the Mainstream Success section, the article reads: "It is said that Hetfield repeatedly yelled at the bus driver..." Using the words "it is said" manifests poor fact checking and casts a shadow of doubt on the authenticity of the claim. I know that the statement is true because James says so on the VH1 Behind the Music of Metallica video. The problem is, this source is heavily cited and I am not sure how to cite the same source numerous times. I would appreciate help with this so I can help improve the validity of many statements in this article.


 * Also, there are numerous parenthetical statements in this article that take away from the content. One such example also manifests poor referencing: "...as a way to test a new studio they had constructed (according to the EP's liner notes)"


 * I have a serious problem with this statment (other than the fact that it is 2 sentences long like every other paragraph in the section):"...and some fans speculate this was done intentionally as a reaction to Burton's death or as a way of hazing Newsted. The most likely reason, as mentioned by Hetfield and Ulrich in subsequent interviews,[citation needed] was that because Newsted wasn't at the mixing sessions, he wasn't able to affect the final mixing process" The bit about the fans' speculation should be deleted (in my opinion, let me know if you disagree) and possibly even the whole paragraph until sources are found.  Any line that has something to the effect of "as [Whoever] mentioned in subsequent interviews" should be deleted on-sight.


 * Also, the sentence "The Damaged Justice Tour followed" is short and brings down the quality of writing. With no information about the Damaged Justice Tour following, I feel that the sentence is out of place and should be deleted.


 * Next, we get some 1 sentence paragraphs. One question I have is: how is the fact that Metallica chose the video for One to be the first video they released ironic?  I may be a complete moron (probably the case ;)) but I do not see the irony.

These are just my opinions and if anybody has any comments, I would love to hear them. Furthermore, these are just suggestions and should be disregarded if they are seen as poor suggestions. I think that the article is well-written with the exception of this section. In my opinion, this section needs some serious work beyond the points I made. I hope everybody will help clean this section up and bring this article to GA status. Thanks and cheers! Wikipediarul e s 2221 01:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Metallica promotional photo (June 2006)
How can that photo be taken in June 2006? It shows James with no beard, yet that same month there are videos of him playing live with a long beard. He probaly shaved after all the show for the pic. just a guess

Do not remove without a cause
This is getting very annoying, someone keeps on removing this part;

'''The Black Album is also tied for the 26th spot of highest selling album of all time in USA. In 2005 after 14 years of its release the album was still #11 on the Top Pop Catalog Chart. It has been on the charts for well over 700 weeks.'''

Kindly read the discussion, if you have to remove a part state your reason here.

Here is the reference; http://www.mac-archive.com/metallica/sales.html Akeeq 20:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Totally Disputed Tag
I have removed the totally disputed tag. If anyone has issues/ or wants to put it up again, kindly state your reason here first. Why have I removed it? A couple of reasons.

1) Only one line of the whole article has the neutrality disputed tag on it, and that does not make the whole article "Totally disputed"

2) I was given a reason that not all of the article cites its references, for that we do have the "This section does not cite its references" tag above paragraphs where necessary. It does not need the totally disputed tag for it.

3) The tag on neutrality disputed is on a line which is taken from; MTV Icon: Metallica. If anyone has seen it they would agree to the fact. I do not know how to cite it as a reference. So its again neutral. Shouldn't be any issue. Akeeq 17:47, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The reasons are stated by using the POV-statement and fact tags in the article. Clear those up in order to qualify this article as one that isn't totally disputed. Roguegeek (talk) 10:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean fact tags also count for totally disputed tag? If yes, then i'm at wrong. And now I see that you have added a couple of more neutrality disputed tags, I will update the article accordingly and would remove those with references, but I think the fact tags should not be counted for totally disputing an article. Akeeq 11:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, fact tags don't count for NPOV tagging unless the statements also present a particular POV. If I say "Chile has 6.5 annual inches of rain" then this does not count. "This is the reason that Chile will never be able to compete with the Argentinian produce market"  does count. A lot of times, I'll just remove these if, based on my knowledge of the subject matter or common sense, the statement is unproveable (e.g. 'Metallica is the best thrash band ever'). Antonrojo 03:39, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks like this has blown over, but yes, when such templates are added it is good form to discuss why on the talk page, and no, one fact template would not mean the whole article is disputed. It would be more appropriate to remove the unsourced statement than to add the totally disputed tag. Hiding Talk 20:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * This makes sense to me. Thanks Hiding and Antonrojo for helping me reach this understanding. Roguegeek (talk) 05:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clearing it all up. :) Akeeq 05:29, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

That was a very good example of the Wikipedia process. Nice job all around y'all.

Early Influences
I believe an addition needs to be added regarding their influences. A very small piece was written about this but I did not see really any references to actual bands. The rock band "Rush" well known to be a large influence Canking 01:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Lloyd Grant is NOT a former member
In the 'former members' section, Lloyd Grant is listed as a former member. That is incorrect since he was NEVER considered to be a member of the band. He was a guest musician to record a guitar solo for the first hit the lights demo. A guest musician just like Mariane Faithfull was for Reload. The former members are:

Jason Newsted - bass Cliff Burton - bass Dave Mustaine - guitar Ron Mcgovney - bass

These 4 individuals were members of the band not Lloyd. If you people noticed both Dave and Ron were thanked in the Kill 'em all booklet as former members not Lloyd —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Erang999 (talk • contribs) 15:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Better picture of Robert Trujillo
Can someone replace the pic of Robert Trujillo? It looks as if he's shitting his pants! Really, it's not very good despite his "interesting" facial expression. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.122.0.105 (talk) 03:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

Trivia
This section was moved from the article to the talk page. It should be incorporated into the existing text. Trivia sections are inappropriate. John Reaves 10:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
 * Ennio Morricone is the composer of the piece "The Ecstasy of Gold" which Metallica used as an intro to all its live shows from late 1983 to 1995, and again from mid-1998 to the present day. The song is from the Sergio Leone movie, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
 * On rare occasions during the end of the 80s and early 90s, Metallica switched lineups for the Diamond Head song Am I Evil? with Lars Ulrich on vocals, James Hetfield on drums, Jason Newsted on guitar, and Kirk Hammett on bass.
 * Bay Area Metallibangers are Metallica fans from the Bay Area of California. The term was originated by the band, and the Bay Area Metallibangers were thanked in the liner notes in the albums Kill 'Em All, Ride the Lightning, and Master of Puppets.
 * "Metallicats" is another name given to fans of the band. It has also been used to refer to members of the band (for example, on the inside cover of the Garage, Inc. album.)
 * In 2003 an enhanced video on the St. Anger album showed that a Metallica video game was in the works. However, later in 2005 this was cancelled.
 * Metallica's live audio engineer since 1983 is Big Mick.
 * Metallica's early works include references to the writings of horror/sci-fi author H.P. Lovecraft. The song "The Call of Ktulu" alludes to the name of the Lovecraft tale "The Call of Cthulhu," and the lyrics to the song "The Thing That Should Not Be" quotes from "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," a story by the same author.
 * US interrogators exposed Iraqi Prisoners of War to Metallica tracks for prolonged periods during the 2003 invasion of Iraq to make them talk.
 * Following 9/11, "Enter Sandman", "Fade to Black", "Harvester Of Sorrow" and "Seek & Destroy", were all placed on the List of songs deemed inappropriate by Clear Channel following the September 11, 2001 attacks.
 * Musician Daniel Johnston refused to sign with Elektra Records because he claimed that Metallica, one of their most popular acts, were under the influence of Satan.
 * Ska punk band Skatallica derives its name from Metallica.
 * Victoria's Secret was sued in 1999 for selling a lip liner bearing the name 'Metallica'.
 * In the early 1980's, vocalist John Bush from Armored Saint and later Anthrax  was asked to join Metallica but he declined.
 * The band based the song "For Whom The Bell Tolls" on Ride The Lightning off of the Ernest Hemingway book For Whom The Bell Tolls.

Videos / DVDs
Should there be a section, similar to discography that lists the various DVDs and Videos released? I'm not talking song video clips, but commercially available packages. For example, Cliff 'Em All, 2 of One, A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica (Parts 1 and 2), Live Shit - Bing and Purge, and Metallica - The Videos. Dgen 05:39:13, 23 January 2007 UTC


 * Yea, good idea. Could put it in a list next to studio albums like in Slayer or Nightwish. M3tal H3ad 05:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Summer Sanitarium 2000 - Locations
Though listed in the 'Temporary Live Members' section, I know of one location to add and with a source, there is possibly a third to identify.

Texas Stadium, Dallas, Texas, Summer Sanitarium 2000. Same bill listed as the Atlanta show. System of a Down, Kid Rock, Korn, Metallica.

According to an ad placed for a guitar owned by one of the participants, Kenny Olsen (Kid Rock guitarist), there were three shows where Metallica minus James was complimented by members of the other three.

http://www.rockstarsguitars.com/product.php?c=1&cat=110&scat=215

The link may be here today, gone tomorrow.

Checking an outside fan site is contradictory but interesting. Lists shows in Dallas, Atlanta, and the end of the tour in Lexington KY. Unfortunately, the location for Dallas is wrong. It lists "Starplex Ampitheatre" but the show was at Texas Stadium. The stage was on the field and passes were available for that area. Available seating in the stands too.

http://www.metallicaworld.co.uk/metallica_tour_dates_sanitarium.htm

Could Lexington be the third "occasion" listed in the Olsen article?

Playing drums for Korn (Dallas) was Mike Borden (listed in Korn as touring member but not for Summer Sanitarium specifically). Dreds. Skilled. When Korn's guitarists came on stage during the Metallica set and Lars began to play "Blind," he quit playing shortly after losing tempo on the third or fourth bar of the introduction. They tried more than once. Lars wondered aloud on the mic about being able to 'get it in rehearsal' (not exact quote; needs outside help) but for some reason not on stage.

More on the factual side: Anybody know a way to get a scan of the "Road Rage" article from Guitar One magazine? It may have some interesting material if it can be published or hosted...or just quoted :)

Last but not least: Metallica (*cough* Lars *cough*) promised to honor the current Sanitarium tickets for a genuine Metallica show with James sometime in the future. They did follow through. The fill in set was really unique at that point, so another show later was considered a great gesture. Fans in the Dallas / Fort Worth metroplex may remember this, as with the filming of "Cunning Stunts" in Tarrant County Convention Center (this one the outside source lists properly) from '97 shows.

http://www.metallicaworld.co.uk/metallica_tour_dates_poortour_usa.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.187.56.232 (talk) 04:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

Are Metallica a Hard Rock Band
Metallica is not a hard rock band, but some of the songs in thier later albums can be classified as hard rock, so i think it would be fair to leave hard rock as one of there genres. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.29.2.212 (talk) 22:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

I think we should remove it as they are not a hard rock band and should not have it there as a genre. Thundermaster367 13:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposal Big Four Wikiproject
I have just created the Megadeth Wikiproject. But I think that the scope is too narrow (just Megadeth) and I think that the Metal Genere Wikiproject is too large of a scope to handle everything. I propose that we make a Wikiprject Big Four, or something to that effect to cover the Big Four American Metal bands, Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, and Anthrax. I'm eger to hear any opinons. Adumbvoget 08:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, we should make a Big Four of Thrash Metal Wikiproject, that would kick major fucking ass.

What a silly question... OF COURSE! DO IT! I can't help though. I'm a metal-newbie.

You might take a look at what comes up when one clicks the link "Big Four" link at the beginning of the article. It lists "The Big Four Heavy Metal Bands of All Time Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath and Metallica." I know there is a lot of cross-over between Heavy Metal and Thrash Metal but can/should Metallica really be on both lists? Agreed, they are huge and awesome and extremely influential... And how exactly are we deciding "Big Four" status? Personal favorites? Straight record sales? What about Pantera? Korn? Kiss? Motorhead? AC/DC? Motley Crue? Every one of these beasts do/did sell-out stadiums. I'll admit that I really never have gotten most of the differences in genres and subgenres. Maybe because I don't play, just listen and support. Anyway, just a few questions, rock on and keep up the good work headbangers.

Yeah totally, that would be awsome, right a big article on the biggest thrash metal bands, has Metallica sold 200, or 90 million albums?

Past Members
The past members Lloyd Grant, Brad Parker, & Jeff Warner were not listed on the line-ups, or even the template at the bottom of the page. They were brief, but as oppose to what the ignorant person saying Lloyd Grant was not a member was saying, they were. The correct history includes these people, and they should be listed. - IP: —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.88.206.118 (talk) 06:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

Broken Infobox
Quite obviously, the infobox on the article page is broken. I've been more concerned with learning the site's policies than its organizational nuances, so I lack the knowledge necessary to correct the issue. .Absolution. 05:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Picture
I think there should be a new more clear band picture in the infobox, this one is out dated and hard to see the members clearly. Skeeker 18:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I will try find a better one. M3tal H3ad 10:19, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

wow your gonna TRY FIND? my god man dont take the high risk well good luck all i can give is this try www.google.com, heard they got some stuff there i dunno maybe you find nothing but heck who knows right?86.80.121.33 09:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Lost Masters of first three albums?
Has anyone else heard the rumor that Metallica lost the master recordings of their first three albums?

If you have a source, add the information on there. Thundermaster367 13:15, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Include how they were dubbed "Alcoholica"
thank you Zephead999 20:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Japanese Reissues
I noticed on Amazon.com that Vertigo and Universal reissued the band's catalog last year in Japan.

When did their licensing deal with Sony formally cease to exist?

The reissues are released in mini jackets with the band's new logo and artwork printed on the discs.

Also, I noticed that Jason Newsted's face was cut off from the cover of the reissue of Garage Inc.

Does anybody own these discs?

If so, are they remastered as well?

Electrokinesis 18:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dunno about the remastering, but the cover has an obi strip down the left side. It's just a detachable strip of paper, not a part of the cover, so Jason Newsted is still pictured. --jh51681 04:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

To add to the bass discussion on "Justice"
I have read that the reason why Jason's bass was virtually mixed out of the Justice album was because it was supposed to be some kind of hazing process implemented by the band; a way of paying his dues.

Although, to me, this argument doesn't make sense because Jason was prominently featured on the Garage Days EP.

This is my opinion, but to me, it seems as if Garage Days and Justice were recorded and released in the wrong order.

Justice is a great album, don't get me wrong, but it almost sounds like a backward step. I think it would have been better if the record was released after Puppets.

What do you all think? Disagree?

I'd love to hear your feedback on this.

75.4.25.188 18:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

No, to me it makes perfect sense, doing the old stuff before attending to new songs. Letting Jason relive the feel of the first few albums as a band-member.

Also, the article states that '...And Justice for All' hadn't been played for 18 years... While they did play it on the 1992 San Diego concert, and did a pretty damn good job on it as well, in my opinion. Am I missing something? Art'fact 25-7-2007

Logo
The logo featured at the top of the page is Metallica's first and classic logo, the "stabbing" logo. While this logo is still used by the band, would it not make more sense to use their newer "St. Anger era" logo which is featured prominently on both the band's official site and forums? Metallica.com Metallicabb.com

--CP 61 04:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Mistake In Master Of Puppets?
"they were asked to open for Ozzy Osbourne, and Master of Puppets climbed to number 29 on the Billboard Top Album Charts.[6] Some critics consider the album to be the "greatest heavy metal album of all time". But the album is Thrash Metal, isn't it?
 * Thrash Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal. --Pail 16:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject
I don't know how but making a wikiproject for 'tallica would be sweet. Most of there single should be taken care of and some odds and ends stuff like that, so this is band and the articles sorrounding it are in tip top shape. Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 03:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Just To Clarify.....
Metallica..is not speed metal..thrash metal..or anything but Metal, just plain metal...you people need to do some more research... Iron James 04:20, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That's your opinion, it doesn't clarify much of anything. By what stretch of the imagination are they not a thrash band? --Bongwarrior 04:29, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This is from their official site, I think it's related. -- Kudret abi 04:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * They are one of the key originators of thrash/speed metal and had probably the first album of the sort. If you want to still complain about it we can source them very easily. Skeeker  &#91; Talk &#93; 04:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

they may have done some thrash...but an album or two that fits under thrash doesnt make you thrash when the majority of albums are classified as METAL...not THRASH or SPEED...just METAL...saying Metallica is thrash is like saying Ozzy Osbourne is rap, its wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AcesInSpades (talk • contribs).

See, that's the thing: Metallica didn't record just one or two thrash metal albums. In this case, it was the first four out of their eight studio albums that were thrash, and from what I've been hearing, the ninth is going to be as well. Mcj88 19:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

HAHA, this section must be a joke... This band was (one of) the first thrash/speed metal bands, they popularized the genre. Emmaneul (Talk) 19:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Logo
Please stop changing the logo, that logo was only used on one album and some singles, the original was used on six albums and most of the singles for them. when they have seven official albums with that logo on it then I think it will be okay for use. Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 10:49, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This is not the current logo. St. Anger has the new logo and that is their latest album. It is even used on their site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by XAvengedSevenfoldX (talk • contribs)


 * I suggest finding what the real logo is and stopping this edit war, I have already blocked User:XAvengedSevenfoldX for violating the 3RR. Edit warring will not be tolerated. Also, the new logo has no fair use rational and will end up being deleted soon if that is not fixed.  Darth  Griz98  18:11, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Fine. Will leave it as is.

missing info about lawsuit?
I came here because of this: In the 1980s Ozzy Osbourne and the bands Metallica and Judas Priest were brought to court by parents who accused the musicians of hiding subliminal pro-suicide messages in their music. in the We_Didn't_Start_the_Fire article. Didn't find any reference to it here. Can someone put it in, or put up a todo or something...? -- geekyßroad . meow? 20:23, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Genre layout in the infobox
Why has the lay-out been changed to a comma separated list? It was separated for years, until it was edited on 03:55, 8 September 2007 with the comment "line breaks are unnecessary". Since then there has been some editing and reverting regarding capitalization. As far as I know there is no consensus on the genre lay-out in artist infoboxes. I don't mind having comma separated lists but here I'd recommend using a separated list because:
 * Capitalization will be more straight forward, no needless edit warring
 * Genres (speed metal in this case) won't be cut in two and displayed on two rows

I'll be bold and change it back to the original state. Kameejl (Talk) 14:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Date of foundation
The article says Metallica was formed in October 28 1981, but the article 1981 says it was October 15. What is the correct date? anonymous user 14:17, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Song articles
Why have articles for songs on Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets been deleted but none for any other album? Those two albums are their two most important to 'tallica fans, so the songs should be keapt. Orion was deleted that is an extremley important song, it was Cliff's baby. These songs should not be deleted. Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 06:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * They were all put through the proper AfD process and were all voted nn and redirected back into the article with a very large concensus to do so. It was noted that this should be done to all "Non"-singles of every artist.(and it has) Many other bands are having the bulk of their "plain old" album tracks either deleted or redirected since most of them are just unreferenced original research. Editors fill up the articles with crap like "song meanings" or "lyrical interpretations"... or even worse... adding copyvio lyrics into the article. It's just a growing trend on Wikipedia to clean up the unencyclopedic and unneccessary baggage. 142.167.69.56 07:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Heavy metal?
It bothers me that the article still states Metallica are heavy metal. They a thrash metal; they are a part of the Big Four of thrash metal. It should be common knowledge that this band is thrash metal, yet the articles says they are heavy metal. Why is this?

And I disagree that heavy metal is a blanket term. It is a subgenre and nothing more, but regardless, shouldn't Metallica be referred to as what they really are? I would edit it, but it would probably simply be reverted back.

DustFC 23:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter if it "bothers" anyone. Wikipedia is not built on the personal opinions of editors. It is built on referenced, verifiable content from reliable sources. Personal POV does not apply here. Read WP:CITE, WP:V, WP:ATT and WP:RS. Metallica being labeled as a heavy metal band is abundantly referenced from reliable sources and has concrete verifiability. Content that is referenced from reliable sources cannot be removed from Wikipedia... this is vandalism. 142.167.75.132 23:53, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I meant it bothers me that, despite the fact that it is common knowledge that Metallica are thrash metal, they are still called "an American Heavy Metal band." It just shames me someone could come to this page and be misled because of crap sources and ignorant majority opinions that say Metallica is in the same genre as Manowar and Black Sabbath. This is EXACTLY why I preach the message of Wikipedia being a horrible source for anything like genres.

But I suppose as long as Wikipedia is based on majority opinion and not fact, there's nothing I can do; heavy metal will always be seen as a blanket term, and Metallica will be heavy metal. So I give up.DustFC 01:51, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The black album is certainly not thrash, nor are load and reload, or st. anger. This is obvious. 74.245.150.36 07:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Thrash metal? are you INSANE!? Lamb Of God are a thrash metal band. Metallica comes down as hard rock, possibly melodic speed metal. There is NO WAY their sound is heavy enough to be thrash metal, in all the 30 or so Metallica songs I have heard, not once has James ever used actual 'fire' metal screams, all he does is use 'heat' Agent708145 11:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

In the early days Metallica was known as a Thrash metal band, but I'm sorry to say that over time they have got slower and slower until there music is nothing more than melodic metal with a few fast ones tossed in. you could say the same about Ozzy, back in the day most of his songs were really heavy but on his new album most are slow ballads, So I'm sorry but it is a FACT that Metallica is heavy metal. oh and if you don't like how wikipedia works DON'T USE IT. Thuringowacityrep 11:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Thrash metal is heavy metal you bloody idiot. Thundermaster367 13:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

First two citations are silly.
First of all why would a citation be needed for "Big Four"? Just type Big Four into any search engine and Metallica's name will come up several times.

Second, look into any Metallica biography and it will prove that Dave Mustaine answered the Metallica ad from the Recycler. C'mon people, let's show a little effort here since I can't edit it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.124.190 (talk) 12:15, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Because you have to cite sources even if it is bloody obvious. Thundermaster367 13:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Template
On the template (Template:Metallica), why do we have all of the tours? Can we take them off, they are so space consuming. The Category for Metallica tours are listed on the template, can't we do with just that? Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 03:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

metal massacre
in the current edit of the the article it states that Lars convinced Slagel to include hit the lights in the compilation. This is not correct, Slagel promised Lars a spot if he got a band together - so i understand its kind of splitting hairs but the spot existed first not the song, even though with a earlier band "hit the lights" had already been written. I first remember this from an official Metallica bio i had read i wish i remembered the name of the book at the moment, i will attempt to look it up.

the following is a segment of an interview with Ron McGovney it can be found at http://www.metallicaworld.co.uk/Interviews/1997_ronmcgovney.htm

Q: At what time did Lars tell James of the opportunity to be on a record if they formed a band together?

A: "James had told me that they had a guitarist coming over for an audition. I remember opening up the front door and seeing this black dude with a Jamaican accent. He came in and they started jamming to Hit the Lights - the old Leather Charm song. They had this bass player at the time for about 2 or 3 weeks, I believe his name was Glen - he had long black hair - he couldn't really play too good at the time so they kicked him out. Lars had borrowed a 4-track TEAC machine to record a demo. So it was James playing the rhythm guitar riffs and singing, Lars on drums, Lloyd playing the leads, and I played bass."

Q: So Dave Mustaine did not play on the first version of "Hit The Lights" which ended up on the Metal Massacre compilation album?

A: "O.K... I believe on the very first pressing of Metal Massacre, they kept Lloyd's lead tracks, Lloyd actually only came over twice, and then they ended up recruiting Dave Mustaine on guitar - they had kept the ad running in the Recycler, they only planned on using Lloyd as a fill-in. As I remember, Dave played the two leads on Hit The Lights but they kept the second lead which Lloyd played because they liked it better. Now on the second pressing of the Metal Massacre, it was all Dave's leads."

it also brings up a question on what defines bandmember, i will leave this up to others to decide but Lloyd did play and record with the band.?.

referring to excerpt above I'm not really sure about any copy write laws so I'm just including this at the bottom.

In this exclusive SHOCKWAVES interview, original METALLICA bassist Ron McGovney tells the true-life stories about the early days of one of the biggest rock'n'roll bands in the world By Pounding Pat O' Connor

Pounding Pat O'Connor is the former co-host and producer of "Mandatory Metallica", which was the highest rated show on the Pure Rock radio station KNAC-Los Angeles. This interview was conducted in Fall of 1996 and covered many subjects that were passed over during Ron McGovney's KNAC interview in July 1993. For further information regarding Ron McGovney or to reach Pounding Pat directly, write to: Pounding Pat, 9852 W. Katella #462, Anaheim, CA 92804.

this last section was found on http://www.hardradio.com/shockwaves/ron2.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mstrbull81 (talk • contribs) 18:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Mstrbull81 17:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Kill em all
I realize Metallica fans know this but its not something anyone reading the article is going to know and that is that Mustaine was kicked out of the band during their time in New York and was replaced by Kirk BEFORE kill em all was recorded. So although he has writing credits he did not appear on the album. I just find this needs to be stated somewhere in the article.

Mstrbull81 18:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

...and justice for all
the article states that justice was their first studio album after cliffs death, this is incorrect, though it was their first album containing original material the garage days ep did come first.

Mstrbull81 19:05, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Garage Days Re-Revisited is an EP, not a studio album. Funeral 19:08, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Spinal Tap Black Album reference
A citation is requested for the comment that humorous comparisons were made between Metallica's "black album" and Spinal Tap's black album. A member of Spinal Tap (IIRC, Michael McKean) makes such a comparison in "A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica". Perhaps someone more familiar with Wikipedia can add this citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.72.246.91 (talk) 03:56, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

INFLUENCES!!!
I think there definitely should be an INFLUENCES section. I dont know much about metallica, there fore i dont know all the bands that influenced them. Ramones were one because they have covered a lot of their songs.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.243.42.157 (talk) 21:15, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

GA Nomination
I nominated this article for GA status. Im not familiar w/ the good article criteria, so will anyone give it a review? Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 20:28, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This needs way more citations, it has 10 (I think)  [citation needed]  templates. Skeeker  &#91; Talk &#93; 21:41, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I counted 11 [citation needed] templates. But other than that, its pretty good. 37 references, NPOV. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 02:18, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

That's 11 citations needed. You and I will probably be the only ones retrieving them. But we should cite them properly. EX: The dates musi be in 2007-11-24 format, and after a punctuation, not before a punctuation. Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 03:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

All right. Thanks for the citations lesson. I needed it. Now I can use it to improve the arena rock article. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 20:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

GA quick fail
Unfortunately I'm going to have to quick fail this article's nomination for GA status. Articles cannot be promoted with clean up banners in place, and this page bears several - 12 Fact tags, an 'Expansion' banner for section Thrash metal pioneers (1983-86), a citation needed banner for section Load, ReLoad, Garage Inc., S&M and an OR tag for section Napster controversy. Feel free to resubmit the article for full review once these issues have been resolved, and happy editing! Frickative (talk) 21:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

"and became the fastest selling album in Australia for 2008.[70]"
I'm pretty sure it (Death Magnetic) got surpassed by AC/DC's Black Ice album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.234.3.103 (talk) 07:44, 26 December 2008 (UTC) YOU FILTHY LIAR ACDC IS GREAT BUT METALLICA BEAT ITS ASS

Recent Vandalism
Is this page going to stay on lockdown because of the vandalism, or will it eventually unlock? I think the vandalism was unneeded and if it's always continuing then the page should stay, but I just wanted to know because I had a contribution.--Scott Greenstone (talk) 15:46, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Does Bob Rock count as a member?
He wrote and performed on all songs on St. Anger. Many bands have a member as a producer, Jimmy Page was the producer for Led Zeppelin. Does writing and playing music make someone a member or do you need more than that? Pwr.max (talk) 01:39, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say he is since he contributed both in lyrical content and played bass on the whole entire St. Anger album. -- Slyder Pilot 12:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

No, Bob Rock was never even a temporary member, more of a stopgap to fill in on St. Anger until a new bassist was found. He didn't even play 100% of the bass parts on the album, James Hetfield recorded bass for a few songs too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.141.77.130 (talk) 16:20, 29 September 2008 (UTC) scddhghhkxc bnfghgf ghhk hjfg n  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.164.55.146 (talk) 04:19, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

New picture needed
I think the picture should be changed to another picture so people could see band members' faces.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Deathmagnetic08 (talk • contribs) 09:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The chances that someone gets a front row seat at a concert AND has a good camera AND is a Wikipedia contributor aren't very high. Pwr.max (talk) 01:42, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Albums Sold
Metallica has sold more than 100 million records, not 95, should fix that mistake, www.missionmetallica.com showed a video with their sales.

http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=QPojwWMAPBk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.200.212.182 (talk) 13:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * For the record, at least one site cites Metallica's worldwide album sales as more than 200 million. But that's twice as high as any other reference I've seen, so I didn't think it was reliable enough to add.--Foolishgrunt (talk) 01:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

metallica's own site says the sold more than 100 mill —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slapyy (talk • contribs) 14:31, 15 October 2008 (UTC)   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.81.232.225 (talk)

Rumours ....
Remove those rumours about new album from the friend of Metallica members. It has no place in encyclopedia.

78.1.123.173 (talk) 09:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * WAHHHHH WAAHHHHHHH WAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! Boo Hoo. have a sook. you will probably never even go back on this page anyway. -- M et al to the M ax!   10:16, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Metal, please see WP:CIVIL. ≈  The Haunted Angel  Review Me! 19:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry haha, woooops. I wasnt making any personal attack buddy, but i mean come on, some people are here to contribute and this joker just makes his little refference and he's not even a member. -- M et al to the M ax!   11:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I wasnt making any personal attack buddy this joker

Nice way to contradict yourself. Feel free to go cry to a mod since you have no proper comeback. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.190.104 (talk) 04:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC) metallica is thrash metal

is that last bit really worth it??
I mean iall it is, is some guys opinion and quote on one particular song, who cares, is does not do much for Metallicas Bio now does it. If i just made a small artical about my opinion on Master of Puppets then its not really the way to go. just take this in consitteration.-- M et al to the M ax!   10:07, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Metallica USED to be a heavy metal band. They are a blend of country, soft rock and metal now...hardly Heavy Metal.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.170.200.123 (talk) 06:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Are you insane? St. Anger was Heavy Metal, not Trash, but Metal. James' did one country performance, a song. They aren't Country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.219.42.58 (talk) 04:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Backstage rumours
There have been rumours that whilst the band were going through a fairly drug induced phase in their career they experimented in their sexuality and adhered to the more masculine groupies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.177.184 (talk) 00:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

"Tragedy strikes Metallica"
That sounds way too dramatic for Wikipedia, in my opinion. Should we change it to "Death of Cliff Burton"? Thoughts? Master of Puppets Care to share?  06:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. Changing. ≈  The Haunted Angel  Review Me! 19:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That sounds better, as you said, Tragedy is a little much for wikipedia.-- M et al to the M ax!   09:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

GA Review
I'm placing this on GA Hold for seven days because the article needs more in-line citations. For example, these five sentences are unsourced. Where did this info come from?

Ulrich talked to his friend Ron Quintana, who was brainstorming names for a fanzine. Quintana had proposed the names "Metal Mania" and "Metallica". Convincing him to use "Metal Mania", Ulrich used Metallica for the name of his band. A second advertisement was placed in The Recycler for a position as lead guitarist. Dave Mustaine answered, and after seeing his expensive guitar equipment, Ulrich and Hetfield recruited him.

Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 23:00, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure about this but I'm pretty sure I read that quote in Sound of the Beast: The Complete Headbanging History of Heavy Metal by Ian Christe.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 23:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The references are at the end of the paragraph,[1] i didn't want to have every sentence like this,[1] with the same reference being repeated.[1] M3tal H3ad (talk) 01:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That section is referenced; however, anyone feel like getting this 'Sound of the Beast' book to reference from it? I can take a trip to the library if need be. Master of Puppets Care to share?  01:17, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That would be great if you could. M3tal H3ad (talk) 01:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll phone around. Master of Puppets Care to share?  02:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Add some "fact" tags if there's anything else I need to source with the Christe book right now. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I should point out that that book is not all correct, although many people around wikipedia use it as a source. The sections about Metallica are fine, though.  Ian Christe just get a few genres totally wrong.  He gets the power metal genre totally fucked up, and he makes the speed metal genre pretty much the same thing as the thrash genre.  Other than that the book seems mostly accurate, although he sometimes mentions a band in the wrong genre.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 18:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The parts about Metallica are the only relevant parts right now anyways. Anyway, as far as I know I'm the only active editor with the book. WesleyDodds (talk) 19:38, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Everything is sourced.. M3tal H3ad (talk) 01:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * My public library didn't have it, and it would take weeks to order, though I see that WesleyDodds has it under control... Master of Puppets Care to share?  07:26, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I have the book as well, but I'll leave wesleydodds to it.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 18:13, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not in the book, so the source used should stand. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Conclusion
GA Pass. I think it satisfies the criteria at What is a good article?. I enjoyed reading it and laughed at how often 'guitar technician John Marshall' would have to fill in - you should make a section just for him. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 16:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Look, if you're going to Semi-Protect
Make sure there's not a fucking mistake in the second paragraph. And I'd love to fix it, but I can't. "Metallica rose to fame with its 1991 Metallica album, and critics say the 1986 release Master of Puppets is one of the most influential and "heaviest" thrash metal albums. The ba..." They rose to fame with their 1981 album, self-titled Metallica. Please, for the love of God and Metallica, fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.0.200 (talk) 15:32, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ummm the only thing they had released in 1981 is demos. Metallica was released in 1991, thanks for your useful comment :) M3tal H3ad (talk) 02:32, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it was locked for good reason and good faith, and if that stops unregistered users from fixing mistakes (which in this instance, isn't the case) then that's an unfortunate side effect as errors are never taken into consideration when they're protected. Rehevkor (talk) 00:47, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What error are you talking about? M3tal H3ad (talk) 05:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * He's being to big of a noob to understand that Metallica is also what fans call "The Black Album", like "The White Album" by The Beatles, that's not it's real name either, it's also a self-titled album, and it wasn't a debut album either, what a noob

Agreed, MOP was the album that made Metallica a worldwide band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 13:59, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Replacement Rhythm Guitarist
During that show in Montreal when James got burned they got a replacement rythem guitarist. Why don't they mention him? Loydd Grant didn't do anything ad they mention him. Scorpio777 (talk) 23:52, 26 December 2007 (UTC)Scorpio666
 * You mean John Marshall... Him and the Montreal Incident are both mentioned in the Metallica 1990-1993 section. Funeral 00:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If John is mentioned in the Montreal Incident, should we mention Flemming too, replacing Lars during Download Festival 2003? Oh, I also changed the title of this section to "Rythm" instead of "Rythem". --Skehrkrow (talk) 13:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Lloyd Grant was never in Metallica, he should be removed from the band members.

Wrong, he played on the Hit The Lights demo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.224.163 (talk) 04:32, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Lead section
The lead section of this article is too long, does not immediately establish notability (although that is certainly not in question!), and duplicates much of the content in the history section. It should focus on why Metallica is such a popular and influential band and leave the history to later sections in the article. Get the TOC above the fold! Steve CarlsonTalk 01:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:LEAD states four paragraphs for an article this size is fine
 * Mentioning selling 90 million albums is not notable?
 * The lead summarizes the article so information will be duplicated.
 * and your version of the lead would be..? M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * But why doesn't it have a single source? From WP:LEAD: "[The lead] should be carefully sourced as appropriate". Can't understand how this article has FA status with this kind of blunder. Grinder0-0 (talk) 17:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It is sourced in the body. M3tal H3ad (talk) 04:15, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hardly an excuse for not having a single source in its lead. "[-]there is not, however, an exception to citation requirements specific to leads" - WP:LEAD. Grinder0-0 (talk) 11:42, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have sourced the sales figures. M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:04, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

loyld grant was in metallica he helped them get where they r to daoy —Preceding unsigned comment added by Libertheme (talk • contribs) 01:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Lloyd Grant
LOLLYD GRANT WAS NEVER IN METALLICA, HE PLAYED AS A TEMP ON THE METAL MASSACRE DEMO AND HIS SOLOS WERE LATER REMOVED AND REPLACED BY DAVE MUSTAINES, TAKE HIM OFF THE LIST!!!! He never recorded and album, never performed on stage just played two solos on a demo... he is not worth mentioning... Bob Rock is more of an ex-member of the band... he has written songs, recorded and produced with the band as well as playing live with them! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 16:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear GOD, man. Calm down. Please? The liner notes for Garage Inc. list him as having been the lead guitarist for a time. Therefore, you have nothing. As for Bob Rock, he played because they didn't have a bassist at the time, and when they signed Rob Trujillo, Rob took over. Please, chill. ElimRawne (talk) 03:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

. Pillsbur (talk) 17:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with the shouter above: Grant was never a member of the band in the way James, Lars, Kirk, or any of the others were. The liner notes are simply wrong, or were written in such a way as to make things sound more interesting than they really were (see also the bit in those same notes about the existence of ban on cover songs in LA clubs in the 80s, a ban which Metallica was able to circumvent because their covers were so obscure.  Neat story, except no such ban ever existed).  Everything else you can find about this situation will strongly indicate that it's a wrong-headed idea to consider Grant a real member

Grant only played two guitar solos on a DEMO, he never recorded, toured or is considered a member by any valid source. The Garage Inc insert is describing when they started out, but Grant only worked with Metallica for ONE DAY. This in my view is not enough to make him a a member of the band, his solos were not even used and were replaced by Dave Mustaines. So his contribution to Metallica is ZERO. Why is he still on there? If Grant is on there then surely Marshall should be as he actaully worked with Metallica and played live with them! Maybe you could get real silly and post every person who has guested alongside them over the past 30 years as well. You wouldnt, thats why Grant should go. Hes a bass player by proffesion anyways.

Bob Rock on the other hand produced every album in the 1990s early 00s, toured and played live with the band and recorded an album with songs he is credited for writing,so has a solid case to be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 14:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree, remove Grant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think Grant was ever a member either, however does deserve a mention within the text. &mdash; Burningclean &#91; Speak the truth! &#93; 22:02, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

There are multiple errors with Lloyd Grant's tenure in Metallica. For starters, he wasn't the original lead guitarist in Metallica. Dave Mustaine was the original lead guitarist (http://www.metallicaworld.co.uk/dave_mustaine.htm), and wasn't present for the recording "Hit the Lights" due to prior obligations with another band. So basically he SHOULD be removed form the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 11:31, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I read an interview with Lars Ulrich (just after Lloyd Grant's new band DefCon released a demo) in which he claimed that Grant was a member of Metallica, but possibly prior to the band adopting the name Metallica. He further claimed that Grant was dropped from the band because it was hard to get heavy metal gigs with a black guitarist. (This was in Metal Forces magazine from sometime in the 'eighties). So the story that he was just hired as a one-shot deal to do the solo on Hit The Lights isn't as cut and dried as it seems.Revmagpie (talk) 03:47, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

According to Ron McGovney in an interview from So What! club magazine, Lloyd just came over once to put down his solos, nothing more than a service to his buddy Lars. If this is true, he was just there once to help out, sort of a session musician. If that qualifies him, Marianne Faithful should be listed as band member too, just like the dozens of classic musicians who put down the string tracks on NEM. Get the point?--Skehrkrow (talk) 22:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey
Congrats on bringing this article to FA-status. Medieval Man 03:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:04, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Mark Turczak?
I don't know about you guys, but I've read Metallica's autobiography, been a fan for as long as I can remember and can recall most of their history pretty well, but how come I've never heard of the name Mark Turczak? It's mentioned in the first paragraph that he was the first bassist and got kicked out for being gay... or something weird. Never heard of it - don't believe it. Either someone prove me wrong or that's just not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Archoran (talk • contribs) 21:54, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It appears to be simply vandalism. CloudNine (talk) 22:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Newsted hazing
I dont understand this statement: "Newsted's bass was purposely turned down on the album as a part of the continuous "hazing" he received, and his musical ideas were ignored." in the ...And Justice for All (1988–1990) section. It has "Some Kind of Monster feature film" as a source, but I didnt take a note about anything like this in the film. There is nothing about any hazing of Newsted in 1988-1990. Has anybody an explanation?-- Lykantrop (Talk) 13:18, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My bad, used the wrong source. It's corrected now with the Playboy interview. M3tal H3ad (talk) 01:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The bass being turned down was not part of the hazing, it was more an effort to keep the bass more under control, get it to follow the drums. Lars Ulrich stated this in an interview, Cliff would be out in space with his bass, so they put a foot on Jason right from the start to prevent this from happening again. I am affirmative about this, unfortunately I no longer have the mag, and can't quote exactly when and where he said it. So just take this as an unconfirmed additional info to the "no bass on Justice issue". --Skehrkrow (talk) 13:15, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that they simply were unhappy with overall production/engineering of the album and the bass-less sound they ended up with, which resulted in their "breakup" with longtime sound engineer Flemming Rasmussen. That was a major contributor to their decision to turn to Bob Rock for the next album. It's not like they intended Justice to eventually sound like that. I'd say that's "confirmed" considering they said so in roughly a million interviews since then. 91.33.248.205 (talk) 09:28, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

The Road Virus Heads North
No, its not a song title. It's Stephen King story which mentions a deranged Metallica fan heading home from a concert. I'm gonna go search the internet to see if i can find a reference. Or we could just say its in the book, Everythings Eventual. Whatever.♠Д narchistPig♠ (talk) 05:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Power Metal Demo????
How come Power Metal is listed? not even Metallica's website acknowledges that "demo" 205.118.119.223 (talk) 19:12, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The albums' genre

 * Kill 'Em All - Thrash/Speed Metal
 * Ride The Lightning - Thrash Metal
 * Master of Puppets - Thrash Metal
 * ...And Justice For All - Thrash Metal
 * Metallica - Heavy Metal
 * Load - Hard Rock
 * ReLoad - Hard Rock
 * St. Anger - Nu Heavy Metal/Hard Rock - I'd say. Burningclean  [speak]  03:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

16:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Or we can just make them all "Heavy metal" for consistency. I did this with R.E.M., and just made all the album and song infoboxes just say "alternative rock". WesleyDodds (talk) 01:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't disagree with that. Thrash and speed are just heavy metal subgenres. The 2 albums that the user above identified as hard rock are more commonly identified in pro publications as heavy metal.(which they are) The strikeout "nu" comment is a bit of childishness that happens irregularly on Wikipedia where that album is concerned. The article itself has been in debate in the past and was only stabilized by the addition of 4 reliable sources that all say heavy metal (the article still appears to turn into a battle zone whenever those citations are removed so there seems to be no argument about the content as long as the citations stay in place) The only debate I could add in favour of one of the subgenres is that without Metallica's first 3 thrash albums the entire subgenre would have died a quick death. So the inclusion of thrash metal where those 3 albums are concerned is pretty concrete simply because of the "historical" element of it. What exactly prompted this post in the first place? On a quick reading it just looks like a random blog that belongs somewhere else other than Wikipedia. Wesley is there a previous debate on this that I have missed during my extended hiatus from the project? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 01:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It isn't "nu" just due to the fact that it has lower tuned guitars. That is what bugs me when people say that. Burningclean  [speak]  01:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Load and Reload are definitely heavy metal/hard rock and St.Anger has noting to do with hard rock. Else agreed. --  LYKANTROP   11:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As long as nobody is able to show me a verifiable list of criteria by which to classify music into genres, this whole debate is a moot point. I'd just put them into the metal category. Because if you start arguing the finer points of music, you will never ever be able to get common ground: is Judas Priest metal? If yes, is Manowar metal? But both sound very different. King Diamond? Get my point? Besides, why all this thinking? This ain't philosophy 101, it's metal, so bang that head that doesn't bang, shut up and enjoy the music! ;)--Skehrkrow (talk) 22:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Burningclean [speak]  22:25, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * St. Anger is definitely not Nu in any sense, it is more like alternative metal as you said. And changing the first 4 albums to "heavy metal" is stupid. Thrash metal has evolved on a different path than traditional heavy metal artists like Judas Priest. 21:14, 07 May 2008

st. anger is not nu. nu metal is more of grung fused with rapping(kind of).

Guitar Hero: Metallica
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6191921.html It's pretty much confirmed. Should we add this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Insaneingus (talk • contribs) 01:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking we should add Metallica's inclusion in Guitar Hero 3 under the "Legacy and Influence" section. I think it's key because this reflects Metallica's continuing legacy in media, beyond just the music they play. A note about it being one of the hard songs on the game would be nice as well =D —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scoobots (talk • contribs) 18:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC) I have metallica and it is awesome best guitar hero by far

Metal Church
i think you can add them at the "Associated Acts" bar... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.108.119.253 (talk) 09:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Update
"With over 95 million records sold worldwide, including 57 million in the United States" Metallica have sold over 100 million albums worldwide it even says on their website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SPIKE2402 (talk • contribs) 13:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Usually wikipedia doesn't accept primary-source data. Haxxiy (talk) 18:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Guitar Hero: Metallica In 2009,Guitar Hero is set to realese a Guitar Hero: Metallica Special Edition video game for the xbox 360. No word yet if its going to be for another console. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brettx44 (talk • contribs) 19:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What about the entire Death Magnetic album being downloadable for Guitar Hero? Where's news about them covering Iron Maiden for Kerrang! Death Magnetic box set? Latest concert info? Future plans? This is Wikipedia, where's the info? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.211.82.5 (talk) 21:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

BEFORE YOU REMOVE PROGRESSIVE METAL FROM THE GENRE LIST!
It should be noted that this one could be argued greatly. If you listen to thier first four albums, specifically Master of Puppets and ...And Justice for All they have alot of unique arrangements and don't really follow the typical flow of a song. I think the genre should stay. That is just my opinion. Burningclean [speak]  08:12, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think progressive metal is a bad description of some of their stuff, but my opinion in most of these genre-arguments is the same - if you can cite the fact that reliable sources are calling them progressive metal, then there's no problem putting it in there. If not, it's original research and doesn't belong here. ~ mazca  t 13:29, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

didnt metallica do a consert with slipknot?
Xskootafreek (talk) 15:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)a little while ago slipknot and metallica were on stage together? is that included as an assosiated act if not dont worry about it.Xskootafreek (talk) 15:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * No, that doesn't make them an associated act. 65.189.210.173 (talk) 09:22, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Albums Sold
Metallica has sold more than 100 million records, not 95!!! 100 millions has sold!!!!

http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=QPojwWMAPBk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.200.212.182 (talk) 13:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

agreed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slapyy (talk • contribs) 08:50, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

So what? The Carpenters have sold more! 150 million! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.39.173.71 (talk) 20:59, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

ya, but what the hell does that have to do with this? besides, the RIAA says that the carpenters only have 24.5 million sold, and they say metallica has 58 million sold (these are albums in the us), and, hey look! thats more! and (by the way) the RIAA would know, since, you know, there the people that certify them (and the beatles destroy both of them with 170 million, but I'm a metallica fan, i just wanted to prove that guy wrong) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.118.223.189 (talk) 06:03, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Bass Players and Guitar players
At the start, it says McGovney and Mustaine were later ejected from the band, in favor of Kirk Hammett and Cliff Burton, respectively. RESPECTIVELY. Needs to be changed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpob5 (talk • contribs) 05:11, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And what do you SUGGEST??--  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  06:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It should be McGovney/Mustaine for Burton/Hammett or Mustaine/McGovney for Hammett/Burton or eliminate the word respectively.-- Slyder Pilot 21:14, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually McGovney wasnt kicked out, he decided to leave due to problems with Dave. And Dave °″≈≥−§wasnt kicked out for Hammet, he got kicked out first then later on they got Hammet.°″≈≥−§ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.113.58.252 (talk) 19:12, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

uhhh no, in the Behind the Music documentary for Megadeth, James and Lars spent their time during the roadtrip to NY listenning to tapes trying to find their new lead. When they kicked Dave out the moment they got to New York, they had already called Kirk Hammett in to record. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.231.20.58 (talk) 00:38, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Maiden cover,Death in a coffin,second leg of the tour started
can someone add something about the Maiden cover,Death Magnetic Box set and second leg of the tour? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.217.229.150 (talk) 06:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Metallica formed in San Francisco, not LA
Please, edit the very first line of the article. It is a known fact that Metallica was formed in San Francisco. They moved to LA later on, having decided to get Cliff Burton on board, who was reluctant to leave Los Angeles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Artrage (talk • contribs) 20:37, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * No, Metallica moved from L.A. to San Fransisco because Cliff didn't wanna go to L.A.. They even said "L.A. sucks!" in an interview on Cliff 'Em All. - Aphasia83 (talk) 20:41, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Heavy Metal?
Metallica are heavy metal, but that is an umbrella term for them. It should be thrash metal. I edited all of their albums to "by THRASH METAL band Metallica, but they were all changed to Heavy metal. Whoever is changing it has no idea what Metallica is. I'd suggest changing it to Thrash metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.218.17 (talk) 01:50, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Are Metallica, Load, Reload and St Anger thrash albums? As you say, heavy metal is a umbrella term, it best applies to the band as a whole. Rehevkor ✉  02:39, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But Metallica are a Thrash metal band, not a heavy metal band.
 * "Metallica's early releases included fast tempos, instrumentals, and aggressive musicianship that placed them as one of the "Big Four" of the thrash metal subgenre alongside Slayer, Megadeth and Anthrax."

I'm sorry, but Metallica have been anything but "metal" for a long time. I would simply call them a "rock" band, and a fairly mediocre one at that. I mean, after that whole Napster thing, talk about whiners. They should've been flattered that someone could be bothered to downloaded their s#*$. Even if they didn't agree with it, they certainly let themselves become the TOOLS of a record company. I know they were "harder" in their early years, probably hard rock or soft metal (say Mercury or Aluminium for instance) then they trended to hard rock, then rock, then pussy try hards". --Simonmetcalf (talk) 10:05, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Please note that says "Metallica's early releases". A band is not solely defined as the first genre they enter the industry with. If that were the case, Kid Rock would solely be a hip-hop artist, which I think we can agree is not the case. James25402 (talk) 09:48, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's clarify this with an example. Testament is a thrash metal band because they remained consistent in the thrash genre for over two decades. Metallica was only truly a thrash metal band for 5-8 years until the black album was released. From that point forward their music has been a clash of heavy metal and hard rock. While Death Magnetic certainly shows a much heavier and faster side of the band, it doesn't just cancel out all their previous releases leaving them strictly a thrash metal band. If information can't be 100% specfic, it's best to stick with an umbrella term. —Vanishdoom (talk) 10:41, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.218.17 (talk) 21:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They have won awards for best Metal band. They should be Metal then. That Trashmetal band looks alot like Metallica. Metallica is so not Heavy Metal. There way softer then any other Heavy Metal band.80.126.126.44 (talk) 15:53, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Lloyd Grant-member
Lloyd Grant is a member.Did you read the book ``The truth about metallica``Binzisimpsons (talk) 06:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Take a gander at this link : no mention of Lloyd Grant. -- Slyder Pilot 12:24, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Wording not matching citations. FA status flimsy
Article needs a double check as some of the text has been altered away from the citations given to include whiny-boy weasel words, personal pov and bloated album sales. The junk in the lead-in about 'going alternative' and 'selling out' isn't backed up by referenced text within the article and, again, is poorly written weasel text. The article should have a double-check done on all the given refs to see that they support the text they are supposed to be supporting. A review of this articles "Featured" status can be requested to have a more thorough scrutiny of its citations done since, for now anyways, its FA status is jeopardised by these WP:AWW/WP:NPOV vios which do not have references meeting WP:RS criteria to support them. Libs 13:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Metallica's crusade against piracy
Why are there no direct mentions of Metallica's stand against piracy on this wiki page? I found only an obscure reference to Napster. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nincompoot (talk • contribs) 05:04, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Albums sold
There was a 100 million for a couple of weeks, now there's a 90 millions sold worldwide, because a user said that on the section "leagacy and Influence" there were only 90. I checked the citation -Tallica LP and Limb Biskit to the sanitarium- and there only says 85 millions, if no official citation is shown with an updated number, then 90 millions will be reduced to 85 millions, which is the only official citation found, not counting the one on YouTube which is not reliable at all.  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  04:46, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The history behind the 85 to 90 is that if you check the date of the news release... it did not included sales for St Anger nor did it include the 1M increase noted by the RIAA for 2 other Metallica albums. These increases were discussed long ago and, at that time, it was a consensus decision that the band had legitimately sold at least 5M more albums since that press release so it was OK to post 90M on the main page because it was 85M + the agreed upon common sense mathematics. But since then no other legitmate reliable source has come along to allow us to increase the number beyond 90M.. although the page is trolled by many fanboys who try to balloon the sales because they are in love with the band. It won't be long before a legitimate 100M sales source comes along. But you are correct that the youtube video is not a reliable source. For worldwide sales there is no true/valid sales source. Especially in the article lead-in where it just reads like unencyclopedic peacocking. If we really strived to keep Wikipedia accyrate we wouldn't post that information at all. Even the list of best selling artists article is a crock of **** and one of the most embattled pages here. Wiki would be better of without it. The Real Libs-speak it 12:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

What is the debate over hard rock again?
It's in, it's out, it's in, it's out. Is it an offensive genre? Clearly it describes more than half of the output from the bands 3 90s era studio albums. If anything I would question speed metal. Not that they didn't play it. but it describes about half of Kill 'em All and then... that's it. After that its thrash - thrash - thrash - heavy metal/hard rock - hard rock/heavy metal - hard rock/heavy metal - heavy metal - whatever Death Magnetic is. No speed metal after the first album but never any debate over it... hard rock prominent over three straight studio albums and it keeps getting turfed??? What is the issue again?? The Real Libs-speak politely 21:42, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So, should speed metal be at the end of their genres, because as you said -and I agree with you- they only did speed on the first album, an example of over-use on speed is on bands like Megadeth, Slayer, also Judas... but Tallica was main thrash, then heavy, then hard/heavy. (~ 10% was speed)  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  06:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The lead is too long
I think that the article could be covered on 3 paragraphs or 4 smaller ones, this lead is too long, the first one I see it unnecessary by mentioning the line-up changes which are perfectly covered throughout the whole article and on Metallica band members, this one could tell where they're from when the band was formed, and how many works have released to date (which appers on the last paragraph), this is the idea (Which needs improvement of course):

Metallica is an American heavy metal band that formed in 1981 in Los Angeles, California. The band has since released eight studio albums, two live albums, two EPs, twenty-two music videos, forty-two singles and has finished working on its upcoming ninth studio album, Death Magnetic.

Metallica's early releases included fast tempos, instrumentals, and aggressive musicianship that placed them as one of the "Big Four" of the thrash metal subgenre alongside Slayer, Megadeth and Anthrax. The band earned a growing fan base in the underground music community, and some critics say the 1986 release Master of Puppets is one of the most influential and "heavy" thrash metal albums. The band achieved substantial commercial success with its self-titled 1991 album, which debuted at number one on the Billboard 200. Some critics and fans believed the band changed its musical direction to appeal to the mainstream audience. With the release of Load in 1996, Metallica distanced itself from earlier releases in what has been described as "an almost alternative rock approach", and the band faced accusations of "selling out".

In 2000, Metallica was among several artists who filed a lawsuit against Napster for sharing the band's copyright-protected material for free without the band members' consent. A settlement was reached, and Napster became a pay-to-use service. Despite reaching number one on the Billboard 200, the release of St. Anger in 2003 disappointed some critics and fans with the exclusion of guitar solos, and the "steel-sounding" snare drum. A film titled Some Kind of Monster documented the recording process of St. Anger.

Metallica has become one of the most commercially successful and influential heavy metal acts. With 90 million records sold worldwide, including 57 million in the United States, the band has won seven Grammy Awards, and has had four albums peak at number one on the Billboard 200.

PD: The lead looks even larger next to the artist infobox template, seriously, this needs to be fixed up.  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  04:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Sentence just trails off.....
In the Death Magnetic section the final sentence

"It is currently unconfirmed whether Metallica or Warner Bros. will be taking any action against the retailer, though drummer Lars Ulrich who has made such responses to the leak as, "…We're ten days from release. I mean, from here, we're golden. If this thing leaks all over the world today or tomorrow, happy days. Happy days. Trust me,"[65] and, "By 2008 standards, that's a victory. If you'd told me six months ago that our record wouldn't leak until 10 days out, I would have signed up for that."[66]"

contains the phrase "who has made such responses to the leak as..." as if there were more info after the quotations but when the clause is finished nothing else is said. This could be remedied by removing the word 'who'. I know I'm probably coming off like the grammar police but hopefully someone with a high school education knows what I'm talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.145.164.102 (talk) 20:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame news
Reading the news today, I knew this would come up. ..

Ok, the announcemnt that Metallica has been nominated for induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame should not be included on this page. This is because artists can be nominated repeatedly (two notable examples are Black sabbath and the Stooges); this is just the shortlist until they pick the inductees for this year. Only include mention of their induction when they finally make it in to the Hall. WesleyDodds (talk) 02:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Internal link for a definition
Since this is an international site and not everyone is fluent in English i believe that the word SKIT, present in the section "Napster controversy (2000–2001)" more precisely in the 5th paragraph of that section should be linked to one of the pages - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketch_comedy -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skit - or, if not, replaced by the word SKETCH which is more commonly know to define a comedy scene/act. Not truly a Metallica issue but, hey, my contribution to a great page. tx Mestrini (talk) 11:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Metallica?
I think that they are good enough and have a good enough article to have their own wikiproject. I mean, if Slipknot and Trivium get one, shouldn't the extremely influential Metallica? What does everyone else think? I don't know how to start a wikiproject.Jonasbrotherareterrible (talk) 19:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Panic (band)
I don't think Panic needs to be included on the associated acts, Exodus is way more related because Hammet's been the guitarist for more than 25 years or so. Panic does't have info about the band, it's not substantial enough either, i'll withdraw it, if anyone doesn't think it should be taken off, then please leave a template on my talkpage to let me knowabout it.   Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  04:32, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Where did it really start?
Watch this and then tell if Metallica started in San Fransisco or LA. Kirk Hammett get thrashed.  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  04:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Hammett started out in Exodus, a San Francisco Thrash metal band (Which I'm sure you know about). Metallica started in LA and later moved to SF because of Hammett and the Glam scene in LA. AlanZhan (talk) 23:21, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Music Sample
There should be added a music sample from death magnetic in the section "musical style" to show the band's return to thrash metal.  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  15:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Which song? I'll see what I can do. Harmanicus 17.07, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * My Apocalypse maybe.--Deathmagnetic08 (talk) 19:06, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd say "Broken Beaten Scarred"- I think it shows more of the speed that is prevalent in that album. AlanZhan (talk) 01:14, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Five consecutive #1's
The lead states that Metallica is the only band to have five consecutive number one albums, but according to various Beatles album pages, Help, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Peppers, and The Beatles were all number ones, and I have them as consecutive. Is it my mistake? If you count Magical Mystery Tour (arguments either way) that makes it six straight #1's. I say take out the assertion that Metallica is the only band to do so, because I'm sure others can be found. Kaiguy (talk) 06:34, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I just checked out Elton John. Honky Chateau through Rock of the Westies makes six consecutive Billboard #1's. Kaiguy (talk) 06:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Good catch. That last bit should probably go. The ref that's there doesn't really do anything either. --Bongwarrior (talk) 06:47, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I've removed it, but I left the ref that was there. --Bongwarrior (talk) 07:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Big question here though, did all of those albums DEBUT at number one?....Arch stanton1138 (talk) 16:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Just checked the Beatles albums, none of them debuted at number one...Arch stanton1138 (talk) 17:14, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

The Recycler and Metallica
Some book sources say the ad was place in 1980, not 1981. Any chance of getting a copy of the ad and the correct date of the advertisement? -- Suntag  ☼  14:53, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Complain, complain...
There's no shortage of people to help promote a rock or metal band's article to featured article status. Yet when I ask for even a little bit of help on a country music article, this place becomes a ghost town. Can someone please help me? It's impossible to write an FA all by yourself, you know... Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 21:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there are people to help, but this isn't really the place to ask. Cheers, –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  22:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Metallica - The Golden Unplugged Album
Anyone have any info on this album? Here's a link to a site that has the cover, and track list. I just find it curious is all.  Cra sh  Underride  20:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to go out on a limb here and say: bootleg. The photo is from Garage Inc. I believe, I've never heard of it myself either. Rehevkor ✉  20:31, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Have to add this pic from the same time. It's funny as crap!!!!  Cra  sh  Underride  20:50, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

6 1/2 year live EP......
that looks like a bootleg to me, so a couple things come to mind.....a) should that be listed in the Metallica template?, and b)if it is a bootleg, should that article be deleted?.......Arch stanton1138 (talk) 16:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

"religious hypocrisy"?
Talking about having no basis. Leper Messiah might be able to be included in such a category, but that's it for Metallica. Wikipedia you've done it again! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.148.21 (talk) 00:46, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
I think that they should mention somewhere that Metallica was nominated to be inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame in 2009.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KronicAssault (talk • contribs) 16:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we should, do you happen to remember the place you saw that information so we can easily cite it?--Alf melmac 16:46, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Echobrain in associated acts
Echobrain should be in that list. It's just like having Megdeth on there, Dave Mustain was able to start Megadeth because of his tenure in Metallica, and his tenure was only a year. Jason Newsted was able to start Echobrain also because of tenure in Metallica which lasted 14 years. I think that sounds fair. MiTfan3 (talk) 05:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Acoustic torture in Guantanamo - comments of the band
A list of songs used for acoustic torture in Guantanamo has recently been leaked. It includes "Enter Sandman" by Metallica. According to German newspaper 'tageszeitung' ('taz'), Metallica have approved this:

Die Gruppe ließ wissen, sie sei "stolz", am "Krieg gegen den Terror" teilnehmen zu dürfen.

The band declared they were "proud" to be allowed to take part in the "war on terror".

Any primary source for the exact statement? --JensMueller (talk) 22:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I looks rather sus to me, not that I can read German. This suggests the quote to be from 2004, the full quote from that link also seems to say Hetfield was suggesting Metallica was a death metal band.. I dunno. Rehevkor ✉  03:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, just found this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/19/usa.guantanamo Rehevkor ✉  03:16, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Metallica's Origin.
I have known of Metallica my whole 24 years. I grew up in the San Francisco bay area. From what I know of Metallica, their hometown is San Francisco. I just recently went to the Oakland show on December 20. They called it their hometown show. So I would like to see you guys change where they found the band, and their origin. Thank you.

Brad —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcrosat (talk • contribs) 20:43, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Everybody knows they formed in LA and moved to SF when they asked Cliff to join otherwise he would decline the invitation. -- Slyder Pilot 16:39, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Addition to "Legacy & Influence"
The progressive metal group Dream Theater recorded a cover of the full "Master of Puppets" album- https://www.ytsejamrecords.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=7&idproduct=16

Tried to add it, but someone has this page protected and I'm not familiar enough to unprotect it to add a legitimate piece of information.

Jamrhein (talk) 23:31, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

hard rock?
how is metallica hard rock there thrash metal and speed metal (Seth4000 (talk) 14:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)) Seth4000
 * Black album, Load, ReLoad, Garage Inc., etc The Real Libs-speak politely 16:41, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Feud with Axl Rose
I'm a bit surprised neither this nor the James Hetfield article mentions the feud with Axl Rose that started when footage from A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica emerged of Hetfield making fun of Axl's rider (the list of demands for an artist on tour) and Axl accused James of being racist for refusing to have Body Count on tour with them and James dissed Guns N' Roses in a 1993 Rolling Stone interview. --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 07:28, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Non-free image
I commented out because there is no fair-use rationale for its use in the article. Someone with knowledge of this band needs to provide such a rationale before reinstating the image. CIreland (talk) 09:07, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Please Metallica is more thrash than heavy metal...
Always I see that it says heavy metal, when all fans (including me) know that their stylr is almost only thrash metal... so I really think it has to be thrash, not heavy —Preceding unsigned comment added by Josesupapi (talk • contribs) 02:21, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The lead should be general. Thrash metal is really specific. Erzsébet Báthory(talk 06:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)