Talk:Metalworking/Archive 1

I have removed the call for an expert. I think the article is now in acceptable, usable, if somewhat rough shape. I don't think much more needs to be done as generalities go. If there were some more collaborators, this article could be refined and re-architected into a better set of pieces. As I built it upon what I found, I think it is about as far as I can easily take it without some collaborators.Begs (talk) 19:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm just getting started. I have organized metalworking into forming, cutting, and joining. I will move/remove some of the machining specific information to a more detail oriented page and keep this at an introductory level with links into more specific topics. I welcome criticism, discussion, and participation in how to plan out this very large topic. For now my plan looks something like this:

1. History

2. Forming: a list of the most common forming processes and short discussion of them with links to a more detailed page for each of them.

3. Cutting: a list of the most common machining processes and short discussion of them with links to a more detailed page for each of them.

4. Joining: a list of the most common joining processes and short discussion of them with links to a more detailed page for each of them.

I think this page should primarily be an overview page and a link page to the detail for various processes.

06:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Under the heading 'TECHNIQUES', the addition of FABRICATION should be added.

Metal working employs all that human civilisation has learnt and refined, in the development of tools, which are extensions of the human hand, measurement from the eye, and the ability to create. To create an object in metal you use the methods of taking away, by grinding, building up by fabrication of forms and shapes from sections of metal, either in plate, sheet, bar, rod, or wire. Welding is the main process of fabrication, so is the holding together of sections by means of bolting.

Categorizing
OK, i am a new wikipedia user, but i think i can help organizing this project

Firstly, let us assume there are only three things that can be done to metal: casting, shaping, and joining. All articles fall in one of these three categories. Whether we agree on which three "official" words to use, we can all agree that the topics need some generalization. please help out with suggestions.

For example, phase changes and carbon diagrams can easily fall into "joining", even though carbon diagrams are also used in other fields of metalworking (it is in joining that carbon diagrams are more frequently used.)

Milling of course falls into "shaping" (for lack of a better word, i used "shaping", sorry)

All welding processes, riveting, etc fall into "joining"

Moldings, alloying, material properties, etc. could fall into "casting" ( if you can think of a better word to use, feel free to suggest"

etc. etc.

Not knowing enough about wikipedia and page editing yet, I will refrain from organizing this myself. thanks in advance for helping though.

--

Good idea, may I suggest Shape Modifying with Material retention and shape modifying by material removal and joining processes as the three categories. There is a very useful categrisation in the book Design & Manufacture by Rod Black. Freeformer 13:06, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

To further brainstorm, we could also use the "who when where how why" approach

Who = definition of metalworking

When = history

Where = will go along with "history". Where did metalworking technologies advance etc.

How = i'll think about it

Why = to advance and protect society

Feel free to add suggestions to this approach This order will cearly need more polishing.

The primary article should be Metallurgy. Metallurgy is divided into two main subsections which are physical and extractive. Metalworking should be a subsection of physical metallurgy. Physical Metallurgy includes various things such as alloys, magnets, memory metals, conductors, etc. Whenever a metalworking article references more technical information (microstructure), it should link to a more detailed article on the topic.

Metallurgy in turn might be considered a subtopic of Materials Science.

Metalworking wikiproject?
The metalworking section seems pretty fragmented, and I'm finding articles (such as endmill, which I've now fixed) that don't have a single link to them... does anyone think a metalworking wikiproject would be a good idea? Try to consolidate the (often conflicting) duplication, maybe a navigation footer, etc. Or any other ideas? Or is it fine the way it is? Thanks, Bushytails 05:59, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Wiggler
This link is clearly inappropriate but I am not competent to correct it. I confess, I have never heard of a wiggler in connection with metalwork but there are plenty of gaps in my knowledge. (RJP 08:18, 31 August 2005 (UTC))
 * Whoops, fixed &mdash; Graibeard 13:54, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi There: A Wiggler is a tool that finds the edge of raw part, in order to establish a reference (ie) X and Y axis. It also has an atachment that holds and indicator to sweep the edge of a hole and finds the center. The wiggler is allways held in a drill chuck or a milling machine collet. The term wiggler means: When the end stops wiggling you have found the edge, then devide the diameter of the wiggler ball by two and zero in your dial or read out. A edge finder works in a similar fashion (ie) when the edge falls out you have found the edge of the part for X then Y axis. If done correctly you can get to within + or - .0005 of and inch, with no problem...

I am a retiered Tool-Maker and Machine Builder 35 years exp...

Hope this helps...Thanks ([User:VAINEO]) Febuary 26 2007

Technologies
These seems to be a very poor article, but I'm not a specialist on the subject, tough I work with some for some years now and have seen the possibilities of modern technology myself. one of my colegues works with 3D software and then sends the files into a metalworking company that simply introduce the files in a machine that cuts all the plates into the right shape (with extreme precision) to make all the individual parts of the project.

Andrezero 18:10, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Applications
There should be some considerations,but mostly links, to all kinds of industry where metal working is a part of the production process, or where metal parts are used to produce something else, like automotive, aeronautical, furniture, ...

Andrezero 18:10, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Atricle grossly inadequate
The article on metalworking is grossly inadequate. A lot of information is out there on different pages but it is pretty fragmented. The basic approach to the metalworking should be to divide the processes into three basic categories: --आशीष वशिष्ठ 02:53, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Metal Forming - this includes casting, bending, metal stamping, coining, stretching, metal drawing, metal rolling, metal ironing etc.
 * Metal Cutting - this includes metal turning, milling, drilling, threading and tapping, grinding etc.
 * Metal Joining - this includes welding, brazing, mechanical fastening etc.

I am in agreement with the comments up here. The metalworking subject is way too vast and include an almost infinite number of possible sub-categories. In my view if there was to be an article about this subject it should only include a overall explanation of metalworking and should divided up as prescribed up here. I would however advise to to add Metal Molding to the categories. metal injection molding,casting, Powder metallurgy.

Anymore than general information about each of these sub-categories would be excessive information as most of these production technologies are really vast subjects and can be wikis by themselves.

Britiju 23:29, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Way off base
This article is more about fabrication and machining than metalworking. I found this article linked to the Art and Craft topic which was entirely inappropriate (but the topic seems fairly well developed in some sections, notably the pottery section). It appears no one has heard of silver soldering, angle raising, chasing, shell forming, electroforming, etc. Somebody please fix this so i don't have to.

Footnote Steelpan manufacture is Science too!

"Implements of Inhumanity" NPOV?
DragoonWraith 17:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC): Not really sure... The term "implements of inhumanity" seems like it's trying to push an extremely negative viewpoint of weapons, in a section of the article dealing with the historical uses of technology. While I might buy that it's not really a "point of view" that "weapons are bad" or something like that, the fact remains that weapons have played an integral role in the history of humanity, especially in technology and tool crafting, which is, afterall, what metalworking is about... So, is this NPOV? It doesn't seem like it to me, but I can't really label it as a specific point of view, either.

Shortage of Skilled Craftsmen
The introduction seems to indicate there are lots of trade schools with lots of apprentices in the United States. This is absolutely untrue. We are in a labor shortage regarding metal-working craftspeople. The "Where are the Welders?" article in Wall St. Journal last May points out this fact and one can see it in local papers across the US. The 1st paragraph should be tuned up to reflect today's realities.ArcTech 21:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Link to 'Shaper' isn't
Now if one goes to the "shaper" page it says that it is part of the metal working project and indeed it is. but if you go to the metalworkingpage--it doesn't seem to feed to the shaper page.Rvannatta 02:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

This also bring into focus another issue---nothing on the history and development of machine tools. the shaper problem is almost symptomatic of that The shaper is an obsolete tool now, but historicaly important, and still coveted by older machinists who still know how to use one.

I've added a varietiy of cross links. for example there was no path from lathe to chuck or face plate, or lathe dog  or vice versa, but at the moment there doesn't seem to be anyone minding the shop hereRvannatta 02:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)