Talk:Methuselah (pine tree)/Archive 1

Merge this page
Sorry to sound negative and I don't wish to undermine anyone elses efforts but shouldn't this page be a subsection of Bristlecone_pine? I notice that Methuselah_tree is already in existance as a re-direct to Bristlecone_pine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iain4724 (talk • contribs) 2006-06-04T20:28:40 (UTC)

Go ahead. I wasn't aware that the Methuselah pine was mentioned in the article when I created it. If you guys think it's superfluous, go ahead and move it. Supraman 03:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

June 2007
Reference available at: http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/earle/pi/pin/longaeva.htm The oldest known living specimen is the "Methuselah" tree, sampled by Schulman and Harlan in the White Mountains of CA, for which 4789 years are verified by crossdating. An age of 4,844 years was determined post-mortem (after being cut down) for specimen WPM-114 from Wheeler Peak, NV.

This is a little confusing because WPM-114 is the Prometheus Tree and not this tree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Polsmeth (talk • contribs) 2007-06-11T13:54:03 (UTC)

I have no problem with redirection and merging as that means only one page to update. Thanks paul 13:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Methuselah still the oldest tree?
I just read this article on MSN about five to seven thousand year old hybrid scrub oaks:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19577541/

These are 'popular' science stories, with guesstimated ages. This tree's age is the oldest whose age has been verified through coring/ring-counting.Ryoung122 03:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Individual tree vs. Clonal Colonies
Greetings, To make things clear, Guinness assigns the Methuselah tree the "highest tree ring count" of any living tree. No other tree can say that. A 9,500-year-old clonal colony, where no individual tree is alive for more than 600 years, cannot possibly fit that description. Ryoung122 12:24, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I am reverting the edits associated with the prior comment, as they are unsupported by reliable secondary sources. If this reasoning isn't clear, please review WP:NOR and WP:VERIFY and discuss before changing. If multiple reliable secondary sources dispute the claims, then the dispute should be noted in the article. Note that I am not disputing the facts, only the lack of appropriate references that clarify the disputes. &mdash;Danorton (talk) 07:10, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Comment. Please stop attempting to hide behind misapplied Wikipedia policies. It is incredulous for you to claim what you are claiming. The Methuselah tree has been recognized as the world's oldest tree by multiple, multiple sources over many years:

A Online | Methuselah TreeWelcome to the companion Web site to "Methuselah Tree," originally broadcast on ... hillside where the world's oldest tree has stood for almost 5000 years. ... www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/methuselah/ - 19k - Cached - Similar pages Methuselah - The World's Oldest Tree - Guinness World Records on ...Earth's oldest living inhabitant "Methuselah" has reached the age of 4768 years. www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQDF - 74k - Cached - Similar pages At Age 4600-Plus, Methuselah Pine Tree Begets New Offspring - New ...A tree known as Methuselah, famed as the oldest in the world, has just produced evidence that life begins at 5000, give or take a few years. ... query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F05E5D61538F934A25755C0A9659C8B63 - 35k - Cached - Similar pages Oldest Living Tree Tells All, by Michael P. Cohen : Essays ...Rowell too saw the need for concern, writing “Today the oldest living thing by default is the Methuselah Tree in the White Mountains; its exact location is ... www.terrain.org/essays/14/cohen.htm - 58k - Cached - Similar pages "Methuselah" Tree Grew From 2000-Year-Old SeedJun 12, 2008 ... Methuselah beats out the previous oldest-seed record holder, a lotus tree grown from a 1300-year-old seed in 1995 by Jane Shen-Miller, ... news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080612-oldest-tree.html - 28k - Cached - Similar pages Taking steps to clone world's oldest known tree / Methuselah's ...Taking steps to clone world's oldest known tree. Methuselah's buds will be grafted onto seedlings. Jane Kay, Chronicle Environment Writer ... www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/06/17/MN25503.DTL&type=printable - 19k - Cached - Similar pages Methuselah - The World's Oldest Tree review at KaboodleKaboodle - Methuselah - The World's Oldest Tree review and product info. Learn more about Methuselah - The World's Oldest Tree, learn other people's ... www.kaboodle.com/reviews/methuselah--the-worlds-oldest-tree - 72k - Cached - Similar pages

For you to incredulously claim there are no sources is so far from reality that I must question whether you are "assuming good faith" in this debate, or simply attempting to dictate a "POV" as if your view is the only one that counts...which is clearly counter to NPOV, one of Wikipedia's unassailable core policies.

You may wish to consider hearing what the other person says before attempting to decide what is the right thing to do here.

Sincerely, Ryoung 122 09:03, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ancient
I removed the word "ancient" which had been in the first sentence since Sept 11 2010. I think it's a bit superfluous, and the article seems to read fine without it, especially since the whole thing is effectively about its, er, ancientness. Or is there a specialist meaning (?) which means it must be there?? What do you think? Cheers, DBaK (talk) 13:26, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

NPOV issue
Greetings,

In regards to this edit:

Revision as of 17:58, 25 October 2007 (edit) TomTheHand (Talk | contribs) (removing redundant and misleading paragraph again. Prometheus wasn't cut down as a thoughtless act which a secret location would have helped)

I'm sure that many people disagree with you, and think that cutting down a 5,200-year-old tree IS a thoughtless and inconsiderate act. Further, we see parallels with the tallest redwood: its location is now kept a secret. Thus, you are wrong factually and wrong on the opinion as well. Ryoung122 23:50, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

They didn't know how old it was. Thus you're factually wrong, troll. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.2.64.111 (talk) 19:39, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Source for coordinates?
Are there any reliable sources for the coordinates of the tree? The article has had them since 2006, but the National Park Service does not openly divulge this information. Did a Wikipedian happen to come across the tree and use a GPS or something? --Ixfd64 (talk) 17:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The coordinates are the approximate geometric center of the grove wherein the tree is located, not the coordinates of the tree. Since there are thousands of trees in the grove, the likelihood of someone finding the tree from the given coordinates is extremely small. &mdash; QuicksilverT @ 20:31, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

The other Methuselah
Another Methuselah tree: I went to Wikipedia to read about this tree: http://www.wisdomportal.com/ElCorteDeMadera2009/ElCorteDeMadera2009-Haikus.html ; http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQR9   At least locally, it is very well known. Mayhap it should have a short article. Kdammers (talk) 06:53, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

How many candles to put on Methuselah's birthday cake?
I posted a comment on the talk page of the List of oldest trees looking for a good source giving Methuselah's age. If anyone here can contribute it would be much appreciated. Tdslk (talk) 13:48, 6 April 2012