Talk:Metz

Sectionalization
I put some sections in there but it still needs logical division into proper paragraphs.Dave 18:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

POV
Is there any source regarding "Following the armistice with Germany ending the First World War, the French army entered Metz in November 1918 to great cheering from the population?" If there is no concrete source to verify this claim it should be removed. Without factual evidence one could just as easily add that the inhabitents of Metz cheered as the German army entered the city in 1871 "as they had always felt themselves connected to Germany." Things like this need to be cleaned up... Hvatum 08:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * from http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/w/i/d/Robert-S-Wideen/FILE/0057page.html (from reading the precedent paragraphs I think that this text is NPOV):


 * "Celebrating the Return to the Mère Patrie 
 * French troops met with an enthusiastic welcome as they marched through Strasbourg, Mulhouse, Colmar, and Metz in late November 1918. Hundreds of young women in Alsatian headdress and costumes, sporting tricolor cockades, holding flowers, and waving French flags or white handkerchiefs turned out to greet the poilus. The streets were decked in tricolor flags, bands played the Marseillaise, bars gave out free beer to soldiers, and huge crowds of people lined the streets, peered from windows, and climbed on roofs to give French soldiers a welcome that exceeded all expectations (especially in Strasbourg). But the animated welcome had more to do with the understandable relief that the war (fought in part on Alsatian soil for the control of the Vosges ridges) had ended, that famine and widespread shortages would be averted, that Alsatian and Lorrainer soldiers would be returning home, and that Alsace-Lorraine would not pay the heavy price of defeat but on the contrary share, however ambiguously, in the fruits of victory. For the bourgeoisie, the arrival of French troops meant social peace, and the end of the threatening revolutionary movement of soldiers and workers that emerged in urban areas in the midst of the German military collapse. French soldiers were soon followed by Marshal Ferdinand Foch, and on 8 December by President Raymond Poincaré, who headed three specially chartered trains carrying hundreds of senators, deputies, elected Paris officials, members of alsacien and lorrain associations in exile, and journalists who came to reclaim Strasbourg as France’s own.


 * The spontaneous outbursts of enthusiasm for French troops often took a carnivalesque and religious coloration and revealed how much underlying sympathies for France had developed during four years of German wartime military dictatorship. But spontaneity was only part of the story. Local authorities played a crucial role by forming “reception committees” that printed posters calling upon “truly Alsatian young women” (those of mixed ancestry were presumably unwelcome) to greet their liberators in Alsatian costumes, and gave them precise instructions on how to do so. The Alsatian costume, a rarity at the time, was worn only in rural villages on festive occasions, and its use in 1918 was the object of debate both among urban elites and rural inhabitants; some opposed this masquerade and could not understand why Strasbourg’s demoiselles wanted to be “disguised as peasants.” But the costume, shunned by French revolutionaries, had, thanks to widespread popular engravings, become for the Third Republic a dual symbol of Alsace’s quaint “attachment” to France and its sense of local identity. Out of “charming daintiness” (the words of the Michelin guide), Alsace presented itself to its liberators in the traditional “uniform” that the French had expected women to wear.  Alsatian writer René Schickele had a more dyspeptic view: he questioned whether all young women who wore the costume on 18 November were of longstanding Alsatian ancestry; a few years later he noted that the costumed women at a Paris exposition could not speak a word of Alsatian dialect or German." 


 * So in conclusion, there was much cheering, but not necessarily because the population always remained attached to France. I will change the sentence accordingly. --danh 21:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) dead link, and 2) no way this passes Reliable Source standards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.169.24.168 (talk) 16:19, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Elevation?
What is the elevation of the city of Metz?--TGC55 (talk) 11:30, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * moyenne : 179 m, minimale : 162 m, maximale : 256 m, from the French Wikipedia article for Metz. --Danh (talk) 07:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Templar chapel (12th century)
In the list of sights I see this: "Templar chapel (12th century)" – I would like to see documentation for that. I doubt it can be found. Jan Eskildsen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.57.199.211 (talk) 07:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Jan, see or the first links of this Google search. --Danh (talk) 08:21, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Culture of Metz German? or French?
Of course it is an ambiguous subject, but someone stated that Metz is from "historically" from German culture. However, the linguistic border cutting the Moselle department in two (West "French" culture, East "German" culture, or to be more precise Romane at the West and Franconian at the East), so this border is to the East of the city of Metz. Thus, in another way, Metz is in the western part, and thus in the Romane side. This linguistic border was dated from the fall of the Roman Empire (around 5th century). see map of the border (in French) at: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Frontiere_linguistique_mosellane.jpg

An example that during the High Middles Ages (and not as stated from the 16th century), Metz is already under French culture influence: the epitaph of Hermann of Münster dating from the 14th century, in the cathedral, is written in old French. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bava Alcide57 (talk • contribs) 03:59, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

- The motto of the Order of the Garter is also written in old French, and the Normandie has been under English/British control for quite a long time. So is the Order of the Garter French while the Normandie is English? I guess not and this mean you can't tell by an epitaph in a church Metz has always been French! 89.50.28.246 (talk) 17:59, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

- It was never claimed that Metz was always French, no more than German. Because German as country was founded in the 19th and France since the 18th century (for modern France, as kingdom, during the 9th century. see Treaty of Verdun). It is a question of main cultural influences and not of nationality. Metz was always very close of German culture, of course, but the cultural main stream was always Romane. It is not just an epitaph in whatever church, it is an original epitaph in the cathedral of the city, for a man born in Munster (in Germany). If the epitaph and the linguistic border are not enough, we can look at the medieval illuminated manuscripts produced in the city (and still available at the municipal library). None of them is written in Germanic languages, but in Latin and in old French. We can also give a look at the Rabelais's testimony about his experience in the city during the 16th century. Or also the architecture, which is not German compared to the one of Strasbourg and the Rhineland cities. That why Emperor Wilhem II built the imperial district, in order to "germanify" the city. The distinction of the two architectures is so evident that the municipality decided to apply in 2007 for the world list heritage, as contribution of one civilization to another.

Two more things: Normandy was not under influence of English/British rules for a long time. It is England/British which was under Normandy's influence, with the conquest of part of the island by William the Conqueror. Thus, the creation of the Anglo-Norman language (coming from oïl languages, North of France) instead of Celtic languages. Thus, this explains why the motto Order of the Garter is in old French. And thus, yes this order was at some point influenced by French/Norman culture for its motto. If not, why the use of old French? I guess not just for fun ...


 * I see nothing supporting that Metz should be historically of German culture. The anonymous change can in my opinion be undone. BTW: if you want to see the language of many more things, that happened in Metz and were named at the time, look at the historic section of the German wiki article. I think they are all in French. --Danh (talk) 16:28, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Pop. Density
Can someone add the population density in square miles too? Thanks. --Daondo (talk) 23:59, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect climate data.
The "record high", "average low" and "record low" lines have incorrect data. For example, 0,6 °C as Metz's record low for December is completely impossible. I'm sorry 200.106.90.69, but your data are false. Lot7125 (talk) 02:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Metro or urban population ?
225,157 is the urban population of Metz. But the population of the metropolitan area ("aire urbaine" in French) was 389 851 in 2010, according to INSEE: http://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/?url=http://www.insee.fr/fr/bases-de-donnees/esl/comparateur.asp?codgeo=AU2010-024%26codgeo=METRODOM-M#telechargement&title=%5B1%5D Lot7125 (talk) 02:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Timeline of Metz
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content! Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 20:09, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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