Talk:Mexico national football team/Archive 1

Opening Blurb
I modified the opening section of the article to remove some potential POV phrases. I also reworked the grammar and syntax while also rewriting part of this section. I will include my modified text first, followed by the previous text. If there are any objections, comments, or suggestions, let us discuss it. My section: "To the best national football team, the Mexican national football team is controlled by the Federación Mexicana de Fútbol and represents Mexico in international football competition. They are currently ranked 16th in the FIFA World Rankings." Mexico has qualified for thirteen World Cups, including consecutive qualification since 1994. Mexico's best progression was reaching the Quarterfinals in both the 1970 and 1986 FIFA World Cups. Mexico holds one FIFA U-17 World Cup, one FIFA Confederations Cup, four CONCACAF Gold Cups, three CONCACAF Championships, three Pan Am Games Gold Medals, and three NAFC Championships. Although Mexico is under the jurisdiction of CONCACAF, the national football team has been regularly invited to compete in the CONMEBOL Copa América since Ecuador 1993.

Previous section: "Mexico national football team is the national football team of Mexico, and is controlled by the Federación Mexicana de Fútbol." "Mexico has qualified for thirteen World Cups, including the last four. It has reached the second round on all four without managing any further progress. Their best result was reaching the Quarterfinals in both the 1970 and 1986 FIFA World Cups, both hosted by Mexico. They have also had strong showings in the Copa America from the first time they were invited by the CONMEBOL in 1993 held in Ecuador being runner-up in the competition (although Mexico is under the jurisdiction of CONCACAF). Mexico is the undisputed favorite in the CONCACAF region as well." Thanks. .cosme. (talk) 15:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Random
It seems there is a problem with the link on the article to the spanish version. It appears twice, one leads to the article itself, and the other one (wich I haven't figured out how to track it) leads to an Infobox of the CONCACAF teams in spanish. You could find the same problem with the rest of the CONCACAF teams...

Mexicans Playing in Europe
This is an offtopic of the national selection, I'm moving it to the appropriate topic MacBeath 12:35, 6 February 2008  (UTC)

Competitive record
Where have the competitive records gone?

NPOV
There are some serious NPOV violations in this article. For example: The tone in most of the article is all wrong. Most of the prose is conjecture and opinion. It probably needs to be rewritten from scratch. See WP:NPOV for suggestions on how it can be reworded. --דוד ♣ D Monack 05:55, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
 * "Mexico, nevertheless, then experienced a resurgence in football, vastly improving to its former glory in both the international and club level."
 * "Mexican football seemed to once again regain its dominant foothold in the CONCACAF region."
 * "...seemed to mark a new turning point in Mexican football"
 * "The participation of the Mexican National Team in the 2005 FIFA Confederations Cup, however, proved to the the world the tremendous power Mexico is capable of exerting on the global stage."
 * "...in one of the most dramatic upset victories of the tournament"
 * "Finishing fourth place in the Confederations Cup, Mexico proved to the world that although its players may not be as well known in Europe as they should be, they are definitely a force to be reckoned with."
 * "Los Tricolores still have much to improve on before they can call themselves FIFA World Cup Champions"

Seriously, shouldn't this article be tagged for clear NPOV violations? --a concerned wiki user

I removed quite a bit of POV today until sources can be found for it. Batman2005 00:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Alternate Uniforms
I was watching a program about the history of the 1966 World Cup in England and saw that the Mexican team was wearing a different uniform from the more well known "tri-colors." The kit featured maroon jerseys and socks and navy blue shorts. I've seen and heard a few times when the team would use this color scheme in their alternate uniforms. I wonder if anyone knows where these colors came from and why they were used. L pour soi 00:31, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Remove Gaitan?
There has been no more news on his naturalization and it's very close to Mundial time, 13 weeks, so chances are that the Mexican government won't do LaVolpe's bidding by then. John wesley 14:29, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Sub 17 team
They won the world cup in 2005, there should be some mention. John wesley 16:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I created an article about U-17 team. MacBeath 12:35, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Article Length regarding famous players
Are all the listed famous players and coaches here really necessary? DamionOWA 05:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, until there is a History of el Tri article becomes. Bona Fides 13:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually not, all those people aren't necessary, at least the coach section is very clear: "Notable Coaches". Not all of them are notable, come on, it's just common sense. At least some of them must have sucked balls. I know Mexican football perfecly well, and I know who should be there and who souldn't, so I am going to take out most of the names. I grew up in Mexico, lived there for 20 years and experienced the influence of football in Mexican modern culture, so don't even think of changing my modifications. I am God, no, I am better than God, he shines my shoes while his mother sucks my dick! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.212.12.194 (talk) 21:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

2006 World Cup Squad
The list should reflect the squad at the time of the World cup. So club affiliations shouldn't be changed. Gtrojan 11:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

We're not changing the squad.. We're merely updating their club affiliation. The players as far as the World Cup roster is concern are the same.. But some of the clubs are different. So changing their club affiliation is not altering the squad. (Ccaarr 18:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC))

I changed the title to current squad instead since this article is available. 2006 FIFA World Cup squads. Gtrojan 20:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

That's perfect.. it makes everything more logical since this is a page about the team and not just the World Cup. (Ccaarr 04:37, 5 August 2006 (UTC))

Names
Somebody has evidently gone to some trouble to reverse all the names of amous former players to surname, forename format, but this is not a Wiki standard, and the columns are so narrow that many names occupy 2 lines. No disrespect to whoever altered it, but I cannot see this as an improvement.Kevin McE 18:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Additionally: can somebody confirm, or correct, the nickname: surely it should be either el tricolor or los tricolores, but not el tricolores. Kevin McE 18:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Action pictures...
Hi, I have some action shots of the Mexican team from a test match they played before the World Cup. I don't know if these pictures are appropriate for this article, but maybe someone would like to insert them. Here's one of them, the others are "around" it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/markhaertl/160417285/ -Mark Härtl 217.245.116.12 22:19, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

new team jerseys
mexico is now using an adidas jersey —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ruiz abe (talk • contribs) 03:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

Yeah, that's true.

FootyStavros 02:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, nice.

Jerseys problem
Is anyone else having a porblem displaying the jersey? or is it just my computer?? El.refusal 20:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Borgetti's goal
Concerning the second round match against Argentina during the 2006 World Cup, the article says that "an own-goal by an injured Jared Borgetti allowed Argentina to equalize". I think this should be corrected, for FIFA awarded the goal to Argentinian striker Hernán Crespo. It is important to note that FIFA carefully sees to it that any scored goal is always given to the right player, for it can affect the player's chances of getting the Golden Shoe. Regardless of how some people may interpret the event (espacially basing their arguments on doubtful television replays), FIFA considered the goal to be scored by Crespo. (21.03.2007) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 148.243.25.26 (talk) 06:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

Schedule & Results
There is currently a dispute as to whether or not Schedules & Results are pertinent to this article. The supporter of removing this information hinges his/her argument on the notion that this information is "news". Proponents of keeping Schedules & Results within the article believe this definition is far-reaching and not substantial enough to remove the content from the article. They also point to the plethora of similar content throughout Wikipedia. Please voice your opinion. --Estevanbonilla 22:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The fact that only this year's results and schedule are list means that this is only news which is clearly news. Kingjeff 22:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

why dont you remove the current squad information too then.... this information is only pertinent to this year's team squad and will be old "news" by next season just like the schedule and results. there is also the first kit second kit section which is only currently relevant and will be outdated next year.. Wikipedia, though the name may suggest otherwise, is used with a broadstroke intent at disseminating information. If people came to this site and only found historically pertinent information and absolutely no contextual references then people wont find it as valuable. I would personally be sad to see any of this information go away.

I also think this argument is a waste of time and people shouldnt be wasting time discussing it. What we should really be discussing is some of assertions made above about the team. Like how we have faired recent and consistent success. I think that's refutable. Or about the controversial game during the 2002 worldcup where the korean ref ignored a handball by a US player... obvious issues with fact here... 65.89.250.130 23:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC) soccer fan


 * I think that there are many aspects frequently found on international team pages that are, by their own definition, recentism (Forthcoming fixtures, current squad, recently selected players, recent results...). Personally, I think this is not the purpose of an encyclopedia, and that it should be omitted, and that it leads to problems: what does it mean to talk of the current squad if a team has not played for several months: it invites speculation about who might be in the next squad.  I fear that many editors will start adding U19 matches etc to such fixture lists.  However, the place to have this discussion is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/National teams, not to conduct a reversion war here.


 * I would suggest that it is duplicitous to contrast the supporter of removing (singular) with Proponents of keeping (plural) when this has been a two person edit war today. Kevin McE 23:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I would suggest being more careful about accusing some about being duplicitous. Estevanbonilla consulted several contributors to this page, including myself, before engaging in his edits today. --Hwasielewski 00:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Your edit history shows no contributions to this, or any other, page before my comments; Estevan's shows no communication on any talk, or user-talk, page during or prior to his dispute with Kingjeff other than that direct dispute. If you are saying that he was garnering support for his side in a debate away from the open forums of wikipedia, I would consider that to be a more pernicious form of duplicity. Kevin McE 17:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Would you two please cool it with these accusations of duplicity? That will not get us to a resolution of this dispute; it will make a content dispute personal.--Chaser - T 17:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I strongly agree with Chaser. Kevin McE: Why follow one potentially false accusation with another? Lets focus on the issue.  I believe this section is invaluable to the article and would vote to keep it. --Mindleftnumb 18:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I strongly feel that Schedule & Results should be part of this article. The fact that there's a debate as to whether or not this is considered news means we should err on the side of caution and keep the information. --Hwasielewski 00:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

It appears to me that the argument to keep S&R is far stronger than the argument to remove it. It's great information; removing it does more harm than keeping it. --Alexmbonilla

My proposal is this... Create an new article called "Mexico Mens National Team Historical Fixtures and Results" and that coul serve as an archive or the games, with correspondet information... take it out of the main article, we can just create a new one which will serve as an historical archive. El.refusal 20:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Mexico Jersey (Burgundy)
In recent years, the mexico national team incorporated a "BURGUNDY" color jersey as a 3rd option to their traditional, green & white jerseys uniforms. Does anyone recall what games were played (WORLD CUP games,if any!) wearing the "BURGUNDY" jersey?


 * I believe they did use a Burgundy colored jersey. Maybe it was the team's original jersey, or one they used during their history. I do remember seeing the jersey, for I've seen it in a show in FOX Sports. I don't know the exact history of it or the exact colors. It would be nice if anybody could add that into here. MarshalN20 05:09, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * they only wore the Burgundy jersey in the fifa world cup 2002

Association
So The Team Played There First Match Agansit Guatamala In 1923 And The Association Was Not Found Untill 1927!Do You Think The Association Would Have Been Found Earlyer Than 1927?Thank You.--Cokepepsi 23:56, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mexico Football federation svg.png
Image:Mexico Football federation svg.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Players in Europe...
Cesar Santín is not mexican, he is brazilian. He has never played in Mexico either. http://www.kalmarff.se/default.php?page=player/playersView&playerID=23 <<< you can check his profile here... I'm removing him 189.153.75.212 23:58, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Carlos Vela is only on loan to Osasuna, his contract rights are owned by Arsenal. I've fixed the squad listing to reflect that. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 01:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Mexico's Pan Am Games Medals Should be Included in the Honours Section.
Team Mexico has won the following medals in football (soccer) at the Pan Am Games and they should be included in the Honours section:

1955: Silver Medal.

1967: Gold Medal.

1975: Gold Medal.

1991: Silver Medal.

1995: Silver Medal.

1999: Gold Medal.

2003: Bronze Medal.

2007: Bronze Medal.

This information can be found on this Wikipedia website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_at_the_Pan_American_Games

Catpooptv (talk) 18:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)