Talk:Mezcal/Archive 1

destilado and other terms of art
Historically, "mezcal" and "tequila" were similar to "brandy" and "Cognac" in that the first describes the genus and the second describes a species. (They are both masculine, by the way, because they are ellyptical for "el aguardiente de mezcal" and "el aguardiente del mezcal de Tequila".) Nowadays, however, both terms have a legal meaning as well. You can make a "tequila" with only 51% Agave tequilensis Weber in the mash so long as you do so within a geographically defined region and follow the procedures required by law. If you're within the Tequila region but want to make your distillate out of Agave angustifolia, then you'll have to call it a mezcal. Anytime you vary from the specifications of "tequila" or "mezcal" you have to call your product something different. "Destilado de agave" is the most common descriptor for these variants ... I think I've even seen "destilado de maguey" but I can't be certain ... there are also "elixir de agave", "licor de agave", and "mezcal de Tequila". I've even seen bottles of "aguardiente de cana" for what I thought would be rum. Things have become very confusing ever since the Mexican version of Republicans took office. xolotl_tj 25 September 2007

Whose Law Is It Anyway?
"Contrary to public belief, tequila is, by law, not allowed to contain the worm." Whose law is this? Mexico's? Los Estados Unidos? Some other country's?


 * The mexican government controls the production of Tequila, but there is a complex relationship with private certification organizations. I believe that international enforcement is done through trademark law. -Harmil 02:18, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

The law is promulgated by Mexico's Secretaria de Economia through the Normas Oficiales Mexicanas. Tequila is specified by NOM-006.  The standards specific to tequila are enforced through its trade organization, the Consejo Regulador de Tequila, A.C.  The CRT also controls the labeling of tequilas sold on the international market. The standards for mezcal in general are NOM-070. xolotl_tj 25 September 2007

Worm
it states at the bottom of the page that it's illegal to sell mezcal with the worm in it, but i've seen plenty of bottles of monte alban in various states that clearly have a worm in them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smowk (talk • contribs) 03:18, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Here is why: While Tequila is a mezcal made only from the blue agave plant in the region around Tequila, Jalisco, spirits labeled "Mezcal" are made from other agave plants and are not part of the Tequila family

The spirits labeled "Mezcal" will be the ones that might contain the worm. Monte Albán is a brand name of this type of spirit. Tequila is a kind of mezcal, and that particular kind is the one that cannot have the worm by law.~ Enrique — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.90.156.215 (talk) 04:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Worm Time
Are you sure that it was in 1940 when Jacobo Lozano Páez introduced the worm? I didn't find any source for that date. Most source tell that Jacobo Lozano Páez moved from Mexico to Parras. And in 1950, now owner of Atlántida, he discovered that the worm gives a different taste. Can you verify that? Yu_Kei (wikipedia Germany). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.143.129.130 (talk) 21:32, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Destilado de maguey
Of recent years I have seen that "mezcal" has been looked down upon as being a low quality firewater type of drink as opposed to tequila which is upscale and trendy. Many mezcal producers, prohibited from using the term "tequila", now use the term "destilado de maguey" (distillation of maguey) instead of "mezcal" on their labels so as to hide their product's lowly origins. Maybe mention should be made of this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robin1944 (talk • contribs) 00:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

destliado de maguey
I meant "destilado de agave" not "destilado de maguey". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robin1944 (talk • contribs) 00:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Religion
Does anyone know of the traditional religious aspects of mezcal consumption? Schabot 21:34, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Pulque is depicted in Native American stone carvings from as early as 200 AD. The origin of pulque is unknown, but because it has a major position in religion, many folk tales explain its origins. According to one pre-Columbian legendary account, during the reign of Tecpancaltzin, a Toltec noble named Papantzin discovered the secret of extracting aguamiel from the maguey plant.[citation needed] Prior to the Spanish conquest, the Aztecs consumed it at religious ceremonies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.223.205.69 (talk • contribs) 00:14, February 24, 2007

Video
I read the article, but was disappointed that one of the videos was completely in Spanish. It would be cool if subtitles or a voiceover were there for: http://www.veoh.com/channels/mezcalembajador This was in the section that said: "A number of objects are frequently added into mezcal bottles along with the mezcal itself. These can include worms, scorpions, and decorative elements such as glass sculptures with gold leaf (see Mezcal Embajador bottles)."

Peter10003 02:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Can the worm be eaten?
Or is that dangerous? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.199.158 (talk • contribs) 07:41, June 8, 2006


 * It's probably safe to eat the worm. They wouldn't put anything toxic in the bottle. --Jcmaco 00:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

- Except for the alcohol... ha ha... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.151.111.236 (talk • contribs) 22:19, June 14, 2006

I always eat the worm in my mezcal (which is one of my favorite alcohols) and thus far have felt no Ill effects from it. I have also seen mezcals with scorpions, though I wouldn't eat that! -John —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.106.21.216 (talk • contribs) 11:38, April 12, 2007
 * Do you swallow it whole or chew it? Maikel (talk) 16:49, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

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kiwkhdhdvfo[ihwef]ihwe'[fhw —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.99.222 (talk) 02:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Proof
I wonder if (in the spirit of standard units and other wikipedia guidelines) the old proof numbers referred should be changed to percentages.


 * No, they should not. Proof is a measure of alcohol concentration used in the source material from which Wikipedia is derived. So is percentage. If you read the style guidelines for unites you will see that source units should always be preserved (with conversions where appropriate). So if you really want to, you could always go through and list conversions everywhere, but the easier thing to do is probably just to link the word "proof" to Alcoholic proof (which unfortunately implies that it's U.S. term, but since it's widely used in the U.K., I doubt that). -Harmil 17:57, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

As I read the manual of style, articles dealing with mezcal and tequila ought to use the units of measurement of Mexico. Here in Mexico, we measure our alcoholic beverages with the Guy-Lussac scale and express those measurements as volumetric percent (standard temperature and pressure being implied). Products labeled for sale in the U.S. will also show proof strength. But the original poster of this question has a good point, that our liquors ought to be described in terms of, say, 40 G.L. or "40% Alc. Vol." rather than 80 proof. xolotl_tj 25 September 2007

Just a quick point, and no disagreement, but "proof" strengths aren't used in the UK except conversationally; the official measurements, and what people actually use when comparing drinks, are percentages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.83.108.10 (talk) 11:48, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Mezcal vs. Tequila
Is there a definitive difference between mezcal and tequila? Or is mezcal simply a type of tequila — with the worm in it? --MicahBrwn (talk) 05:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You might try reading the article on Mezcal. --Captain Infinity (talk) 02:47, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Worms and other additives
hey, i was fortunate enough to attend a lecture from the owner of the don amado distillery down in mexico, a maker of a fine Mezcal. while there, the owner stated that the worm added into the mezcal was simply the more popular, well known additives of mezcal. he said that each little regional distillery used to ad different little ingredients, almost like signatures, that were distinct for the area and local peoples. he showed us a old mezcal with some kind of a nut (almonds i believe) and one with a beetle, another with some kind of berry. he went on to say, just like the article suggests, that the modern version of con gusano was just a commercial gimmick of this traditional additive. so, i don't know if this is true, does anyone know more about this? --Joe_Volcano69.110.32.204 21:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

While this is not an answer, it is a further inquiry about the worm. I just got my bartending and mixology certification from BartenderOne and the instructor mentioned that the reason for adding the worm initially in mezcal was to determine if it was up to par in drinking standards. He said that if the worm was fine and still intact at the bottom of the bottle after x amount of time, the mezcal was drinkable, but if it disintegrated then the mezcal was not drinkable. Has anyone else come across something similar to this? Mattafuga 03:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I had learned that the worm was a legal measure introduced in the nineteenth century designed to assure the purity of mezcal. The story goes that fermentable materials cheaper than agave hearts have always been added to the mash and, to demonstrate that a mezcal contained a high proportion of agave, chiniquiles and meocuiles (which live only in maguey plants, not in sugarcane or maize) were included with each bottle. This story is as romantic and as semi-plausible as the others given here. The business about the worms adding a special flavor to the mezcal, however, does not survive even the most cursory of organoleptic investigation. xolotl_tj 25 September 2007


 * It seems more likely to me that the additive would be a guarantee for alcohol content rather than quality. If the bottle is diluted (in a bar for example) the content would lose its preserving effect and the organic additive at the bottom would start to decay. Using a worm that only lives on agave would of course have the side effect of indicating origin as well as being a memorable gimmick. moliate (talk) 16:43, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

The section about the worm seems to be mostly just a copy of a paragraph from the tequila article about its improper use in tequila, rather than its actual use in mezcal. 149.160.81.35 (talk) 20:01, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Unsourced: before breakfast?
"Mezcal is popular in the north of Mexico to drink in the morning before breakfast." - seems a tad dubious. Arided (talk) 21:56, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Drinking Mezcal incorrect quote?
In this section of the article it states '''There are a couple of rituals associated with it. One is saying "Arriba, abajo, al centro y pa ´dentro", (up, down, center and in) before the first shot and links as a reference this article - http://www.go-oaxaca.com/mezcal.html - however in the article you'll find what it actually says is Arriba, abajo, a la derecha, izquierda y pa´dentro, (up, down, to the left, right and in), in a shot is the way to receive the first taste of the White''' - so would anyone else agree it should be changed to match the reference?Dobyblue (talk) 17:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect information on number of times distilled
In the section on the production of mezcal, it is incorrectly stated that mezcal is distilled only once, not twice like tequila. I know that the author cites two sources, but this is factually not true. Mezcal is distilled twice, the first distillation is referred to as punta. Punta comes out at 75 degrees alcohol (150% ABV), thus it would be necessary to distill again to bring the alcohol percentage down. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.130.38.170 (talk) 18:11, 6 May 2013 (UTC)


 * It couldn't possibly be 150% ABV. I assume you mean 75% ABV/150 proof. I'm not sure what you mean about distilling again to bring alcohol content down. Distillation brings alcohol content up. Many distilled beverages are first distilled to around 75% and then diluted to 40%. Dilution is not distillation, however. I'm reverting your edits, but will add a disputed tag to single distillation. Mezcals may be distilled twice, but what you've written seems to confusion distillation with dilution. Please find a source for mezcal describing mezcal as being distilled twice. Thank you for contributingPlantdrew (talk) 19:29, 6 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with the previous poster, of course it can't be 150% ABV. And of course the second distillation raises the ABV, not lowers it. I changed the article accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noxest (talk • contribs) 09:55, 30 May 2013‎ (UTC)

Can Blue Agave be used to make Mezcal
Present text in Wikipedia "As the regulations allow any agaves, provided that they are not used as the primary material in other governmental Denominations of Origin. Notably, this regulation means that mezcal cannot be made from blue agave"

If I were to interpret the regulations, in NOM-070-SCFI-1994, I would say that blue agave cannot be used for mescal if such is being used to produce another beverage (read tequila) whose name is geographically protected WITHIN THE SAME STATE. So producing mezcal from blue agave in Oaxaca is not a violation, but would be in Tamaulipas, Guanajuato and Michoacan (as these are three of the five states that can legally produce tequila (whose name is protected denomination of origin) which has to mandatorily made with minimum 51% blue agave and no other species)

Perfection161 (talk) 16:48, 2 September 2017 (UTC)Sanjit KeskarPerfection161 (talk) 16:48, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

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To add to article
To add to this article: there are two other mezcal certifying organizations besides COMERCAM: PAMFA and CIDAM. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 20:06, 5 November 2022 (UTC)