Talk:Miami Open (tennis)

Move? (Jan 2007)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

no move. — Mets501 (talk) 16:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Requested moves (2007)
Reasons: These are the official names, they apply to both men and women tourneys, while the name Masters is only appropriate to the men's tournament. It's common practice on Wikipedia to name sports events after their sponsor, so these are not exceptions.Nitsansh 23:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Miami Masters → Sony Ericsson Open
 * Indian Wells Masters → Pacific Life Open
 * Rome Masters → Internazionali BNL d'Italia
 * Canada Masters → Rogers Cup (tennis)
 * Cincinnati Masters → Western & Southern Financial Group Masters and Women's Open

Survey

 * Add  # Support   or   # Oppose   on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~ .

Survey - Support votes

 * 1) --Nitsansh 23:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Survey - Oppose votes

 * 1) Strongly oppose. I am not sure why the move requestor believes that it is "common practice" on Wikipedia to name sports events after their sponsor. For example, the Wikipedia article for the Australian Open does not have "Kia," the tournament's major sponsor, in the name of the article.  The moves would be a radical departure for tennis articles and are completely unnecessary.  Tennis expert 04:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Here are some examples:
 * Acura_Classic
 * Bank_of_the_West_Classic
 * Bausch_%26_Lomb_Championships
 * Family_Circle_Cup
 * JPMorgan_Chase_Open
 * Legg_Mason_Tennis_Classic
 * Mercedes-Benz_Cup
 * Pilot_Pen_Tennis
 * Regions_Morgan_Keegan_Championships_and_the_Cellular_South_Cup
 * SAP_Open
 * Also see:
 * List_of_tennis_tournaments
 * List_of_tennis_tournaments
 * It seems that all articles on tournaments on the ATP and WTA tours are using their official name, EXCEPT the Masters series.--Nitsansh 04:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Oppose. Some events on the ATP and WTA tours have never really had a proper name other than a sponsored event title. These include some of the examples listed above by Nitsansh, and in those cases titling the Wikipedia article about them by their sponsored name does make sense. However in cases where a more stable name which is still considered official other than the (sometimes often-changing) sponsored name is what it is more generally used by both the public and the press, it makes sense for the Wikipedia article to use that name as its title. After all, it's not Wikipedia's job to promote the sponors. We do still try to include all current and former names of the event - including sponsored ones - in bold in the text of the article for the sake of clarity, and have redirect pages from other names for the event in case anyone types one of them in. Despite their sponsored event titles, all the Masters Series events (inclduing their WTA counter-part events) are still often referred to by the public and press as the "_____ Masters". On the other hand, changing the title of "Cincinatti Masters" to "Western & Southern Financial Group Masters and Women's Open" would make that page look a real mess and may put the casual reader off. The current naming system is neat, clean and easy for any reader to follow. We're not ignoring the sponsored names, just putting them in the text rather than the title. Zaxem 01:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, most people that I know refer to tournaments by their location, but that doesn't seem to be the norm here. The problem that I see with these 5 (and not other Masters tournaments) is that they are men and women tournaments, and the term Masters should be used only for the men's tournament. BTW, It's ridiculous to call the Cincinnati events one tournament, as they are a month apart in the calendar.--Nitsansh 02:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * If that is your only objection, then perhaps you should instead suggest naming the articles, for example, the "Cincinnati ATP and WTA Tennis Tournaments." But don't put the sponsor's name in the title.  I still would prefer to leave things as they are.  Tennis expert 04:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Something like Miami ATP Masters and WTA tournament would be more occurate IMO, but if you look for consistency, then all tournaments should be renamed _____ ATP or _____ WTA.--Nitsansh 02:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments:

I’ve redirected the Miami Masters page to the NASDAQ-100 Open page in order to reflect the fact that this is a fully integrated men’s and women’s tournament, unlike any of the other Tennis Masters Series Events. I’ve tried to make this distinction clear on that page, and have also included information about both the men’s and women’s results. The NASDAQ-100 Open page will obviously have to be redirected if the title sponsors of the event ever change. Zaxem 06:06, 26 June 2005 (UTC)

Oops. Got it wrong. Indian Wells Masters is also a fully integrated combined event. On second thoughts I think it's better to keep this at the Miami Masters page. Have redirected NASDAQ-100 Open back to here. Zaxem 09:05, 26 June 2005 (UTC)

The name Miami Masters refers only to the men's tournament. The official name is Sony Ericsson Open from 2007.--Nitsansh 23:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Copied from Talk:Canada Masters
Canada Masters and Rogers Cup are the same tournaments, Canada Masters is the old name and Rogers Cup is its successor.Gsingh 22:51, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Most of the ATP Masters Series events have sponsored names. But these names change frequently as sponsors change. That's why all the Masters Series events on Wikipedia have pages titled by their name within the Masters Series. For long-term consistency, that makes sense (particularly since most tennis fans more commonly refer to the events by their Masters Series names instead of the frequently-changing sponsored names). For clarity, their sponsored names are all noted in bold within the opening paragraph of their page (and also in the chart on the ATP Master Series page). Sponsored names should ideally also be redirect pages so that anyone searching using that name will still find the appropriate page. I therefore think that Rogers Cup (tennis) should be merged to Canada Masters, not the other way around. Zaxem 03:42, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point, I also agree with that, ive changed the tag to merge rogers cup to canada mastersGsingh 16:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait a minute... That may have been true for the men's tournament but the women's tournament was never a "Masters" event, in name or otherwise. When the men's event was "Tennis Masters Canada" or whatever it was, the women's event was the "Rogers AT&T Cup". &mdash; stickguy (:^›)&mdash; home - talk - 17:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I see it's consistent with other similar events. &mdash; stickguy (:^›)&mdash; home - talk - 17:33, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Fair use rationale for Image:Sony Ericsson Open logo.jpg
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BetacommandBot 04:30, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Name and location of the Sony Ericsson Open / Miami Masters
I have been arguing with a user calling himself Tennis expert about the location and name of the Miami Masters. Here's my side on this issue:

The Sony Ericsson Open is just the sponsored name. The tournament's name is the Miami Masters. A few years back the Miami Masters was called the Nasdaq 100 Open. Sony Ericsson is just the current sponsor and has a contract that runs thru 2010 or 2011, not sure when exactly. And although the tounrmanet takes place at Crandon Park in Key Biscayne the WTA and ATP consider this a tournament that takes place in Miami and that's how they state it in all of their official media information (location wise). Here's the proof for the skeptics out there: WTA Tornament Schedule:

I don't really care what this guy thinks, I just want the location of the tournament corrected thruout wikipedia. Whenever the Miami Masters is listed it should include the location of Miami and not Key Biscayne.--190.10.76.226 (talk) 17:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Redirect?
Shouldn't this be the other way around, where 'Miami Masters' redirects to Sony Ericsson? Seems a bit weird to use 'Masters' when talking about the entirety of the event which includes a WTA tournament, which is a Tier One, not a 'Masters'. Seems a bit off, even though I understand the thinking. Alonsornunez (talk) 12:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Key Biscayne vs. Miami
The tournament name may be the Miami Masters (regardless of current sponsor), and I understand why the governing body and media may refer to the location as Miami, but it's not in Miami, it's in Key Biscayne. This situation is not unique to this tournament. The Buffalo Bills are named for the city of Buffalo, New York, but they play in the suburb of Orchard Park, New York. Neither the New York Giants nor the New York Jets even play in New York City or even the State of New York, both playing across the Hudson River in East Rutherford, New Jersey. While I understand the convenience of calling "Miami" the home of the tournament, in Wikipedia we should be using the actual location of Key Biscayne, Florida. Alansohn (talk) 18:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Move?

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was not moved. Consensus is that the term "Miami Masters" is more likely to be the enduring name, whereas the corporate sponsor could change at any time. Aervanath (talk) 20:01, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Miami Masters →  — correct name of the tournament - Don Lope (talk) 12:12, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See refused move requests at Talk:Canada Masters and Talk:Miami Masters Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:42, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose. See also official names, of which this is a classic case. Andrewa (talk) 20:45, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Support. This is both a men's tournament and a women's tournament.  The women's tournament has never been known as a "Masters" event. Because this article covers both men and women, the title needs to reflect both genders.  Only "Sony Ericsson Open", the official name of the tournament, does that.  The official name is also very widely used.  As for official names, read this: "Generally, article naming should prefer what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature.  In many cases, this will of course also be the official name where one exists."  Chidel (talk) 21:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose: see Talk:Canada_Masters. Sponsors change. No need for Wikipedia to do the sponsor's advertizing for them. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Canada Masters is another example of a wrongly named article. It is both a men's tournament and a women's tournament.  The women's tournament has never been known as a "Masters" event. Because that article covers both men and women, the title should reflect both genders.  Only "Rogers Cup", the official name of the tournament, would do that.  As for the advertizing argument, why is any Wikipedia article about a business named for the business?  For example, instead of General Electric, the article should be named something like Multinational American technology and services conglomerate incorporated in the State of New York, right?  Finally, as for the "sponsors change" argument, the Miami tournament has had exactly four names in 25 years.  We are certainly capable of changing the name of the article every six years (or so) and providing the appropriate redirects.  Chidel (talk) 20:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * General Electric has its own name and should be described as itself. But e.g. a horse race (temporarily) sponsor-renamed after an insurance firm is a horse race, not an insurance firm's department. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Quality Issues
Having quickly purused the extensive discussion of this article, I am hesitant to mention the resulting quality issues contained in the introduction. The article title is "Miami Masters", but neither this name nor a reference to Miami are mentioned. The introduction then concludes with a statement that it is "sometimes known as the Miami Masters". The current version of the article is quite poor. I know nothing about tennis, nothing about common usage, but consistency within this article is necessary. Also, the table at the bottom refers to the Sony Ericsson Open. I glanced at the Orange Bowl article and it seems to deal with the naming in a reasonable manner. 173.75.31.10 (talk) 00:36, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Article name
Why is this article at Miami Masters when all the other ATP Masters 1000 tournaments are at their current sponsored names? Either this should be put back at Sony Ericcson Open or the other articles should be moved to say CityName Masters. It makes no sense to have ''BNP Paribas Open, Miami Masters, Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters, Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Mutua Madrileña Madrid Open, Rogers Cup, Western & Southern Financial Group Masters, Shanghai ATP Masters 1000 and BNP Paribas Masters. The Miami tournament should be at Sony Ericsson Open.

Name/Title issue again.
The issue with calling this page the "Miami Masters" is that the event is not the "Miami Masters". The tour would love for the tournament to be named this, but the truth of the matter is that if there were no title sponsor the event would not be the "Miami Masters". You may be asking how I know this. I have personally talked to the tournament director about the matter and he explained to me everything I have explained to you. If you don't believe me, feel free to contact the event staff. 128.180.160.137 (talk) 16:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Per most press sources it IS the Miami Masters. We don't use sponsored names because they change all the time. You're looking at a tournament that has been called "Winter Wimbledon", the "International Player's Championship", the "Lipton Championships", the "Ericsson Open", the "NASDAQ-100 Open", the "Sony-Ericsson Open" and the "Sony Open". Every few years the wind blows differently and it's why we try to stick to a common non-sponsored title, since the article must encompass all this name changes. We checked the sources and Miami Masters won. However, if you go to the individual yearly article on the tournament, such as the 2013 Sony Open Tennis, you'll see that the sponsored name is maintained for each year. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:33, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand the issue with using sponsor-titles, but "Miami Masters" is an incorrect name. Like I said before, my source is the tournament director. It is a fairly common mistake to make and occurs so often that it is impossible to prevent. Even most press sources make this mistake. I can not remember the specifics, but there are specific rules or requirements for the event to officially be the "Miami Masters". Currently, the tournament has chosen to not take the steps to be the "Miami Masters". As far as I can tell, this is a point that was overlooked when the vote occurred. I just feel that this is a fairly important factor in determining what to generically call the event. For example, you would not call a Koala a Koala bear just because many incorrectly people do so. Again, if you believe that I am just making things up, you can just contact the event staff and ask for yourself. 128.180.160.137 (talk) 19:14, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well the same thing has happened with the term Grand Slam. That's only for winning all four majors in a single season. Yet people and the press get it wrong and call one of the majors a grand slam. Because it's used that way, and we can source it that way, many of our articles are named that way. Miami Masters is a very common term for the tournament. If you can heavily source another non-sponsored name for the event, we will certainly look at it. But the event, when looking at all it's history, is certainly not the Sony Open. That is only the 2013 event and for 28 years it was something different. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:31, 25 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, after the tournament ends I'll talk to the tournament director again and see if there is a preferred generic name. It may be "International Player's Championship" as that is what their caller ID comes through as, but I am fairly certain it is not. 128.180.160.137 (talk) 19:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Now (2015) it seems to be named the Miami Open. Surely this article should be titled either "Miami Open" or (preferably) "Key Biscayne Tennis Tournament". As I recall, the city of Miami made a deal to be, in effect, the title sponsor, which explains why it is now named for Miami even though it's not in Miami.C. Cerf (talk) 21:08, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The problem has been that Miami Open was already taken at wikipedia by a prior short-lived defunct tournament. Since that has been moved there is no reason not to move this to Miami Open (tennis). I will do so. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:35, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

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