Talk:Miami Showband killings/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk) 00:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: one found and fixed, I hope that is the best target. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:16, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Linkrot: none found. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:17, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I aim to post a substantive review within the next 24 hours. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:19, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Comments
The source Justice for the Forgotten contains the full text of the Barron Report 2003; Shared Troubles is taken from Travers' autobiography. The Carrick-on-Suir ref I have removed. The statement is actually better suited to the main article than here.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:08, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, ;et me know when you and Daicaregos are done. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:29, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, how are you doing. Shall I take another look yet? Jezhotwells (talk) 00:19, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes please. Daicaregos (talk) 12:42, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I believe it's ready for another look. Thank you.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:41, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment There are constant references to the mens UDR association, indeed the article suggests that UDR Sergeant etc etc were convicted of the murders. The men were not acting in any UDR capacity and also were expelled from the organisation so how can we say that UDR soldiers were convicted without clarifying that the men were expelled and it is also technically incorrect to state that the men were UDR at the times of their conviction which the article seems to suggest Kernel Saunters (talk) 21:11, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment The firm rejection of Nairac's involvement from several sources is not in the article so it looks unbalanced Kernel Saunters (talk) 21:11, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I should able to take a look at this later tomorrow - Sunday. Have driven 600 miles today so need my sleep! Jezhotwells (talk) 22:30, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comments. Kernel Saunters, regarding the UDR men convicted of the crime, only one of them - John James Somerville - was in fact a former member (as stated on page 159 in the Barron Report 2006, p. 3 on the Sub-Committee Barron Report 2006, and on page 48 in the Cassel Report); Crozier and McDowell were at the time of the attack, serving members of the UDR as stated in my sources to the BBC, Cassel Report (pp.52, 67, 110), various Barron Reports, Peter Taylor's Loyalists, etc. I have since corrected the article to show that JJ Somerville was a former member of the regiment, but left in the fact that McDowell and Crozier were serving UDR members as the article's sources all state. The military checkpoint was indeed bogus (the article says this); however as Crozier himself admitted, they set up all trappings of a bona fide military checkpoint and all the gunmen were wearing UDR uniform. McDowell admitted to having lost his UDR beret which was found at the scene by police. Even Brian McCoy, who had relatives in Northern Ireland's security forces and a brother-in-law who was a former B-Special, was fooled into accepting it was a genuine, legal checkpoint. Nowhere in the article does it say that the soldiers were acting on instructions from their battalion superiors or 11th UDR had knowledge of its taking place. The qustion does remain (and I didn't put it in the article) is how they could have set up an illegal checkpoint on the main north-south road when the area was constantly patrolled by regular Army and the UDR (in an official capacity). Another thing I must point out is that at the time the attack occurred, the UVF was not an illegal organisation, as its proscription had been lifted by Merlyn Rees in April 1974. Therefore, it would not have been a crime then for UDR members to also be in the UVF. According to Martin Dillon, one former UDR commander (McCord) tolerated joint UDR/UDA or UVF membership. As for Nairac, I disagree that the article is unbalanced. I have presented Fred Holroyd's allegation that he organised the attack with Robin Jackson, but counterbalanced it with Martin Dillon's firm claim that Nairac had not been present at Buskhill. I also stated that Dillon alleged the attack was conceived and organised by a certain "Mr. A". I have also added that when Stephen Travers was shown a photograph of Nairac, he could not make a positive identification. Kernel Saunters, how does this not present a NPOV?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:41, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The Nairac issue is resolved - WRT the UDR stuff, my comments were more on the tone. The article in the convictions section merely reports them as UDR soldiers missing the point about the attack being a UVF attack NOT a UDR attack. To a casual reader it reads like the UDR killed some civilians. It did not - UVF men some of whom were paramilitary carried out the attack. Also it is not easy to identify all those who carried out the attack, you need to work it out looking at the dead and then at the convictions section Kernel Saunters (talk) 11:38, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment I have since added a blockquote with Dillon's words as to why he believes Nairac was not present at the attack. I think the article is now properly balanced.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:45, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think this gives that section a more rounded feel Kernel Saunters (talk) 11:38, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, I fixed the Convictions section. The opening sentence now begins that the three convicted gunmen were UVF members who were also BA UDR..... OK. I think it's now more balanced. As regards the gunmen who carried out the attack, well there were the two dead bombers, Boyle and Wesley Somerville, plus the three convicted men. Those five are the only postive IDs we have, although Robin Jackson as leader of the Mid-Ulster UVF has been implicated in the attack. It is obvious (but would be OR to link them in the article) that Dillon's "Mr A" is Jackson, but seeing as he was alive and kicking back when The Dirty War came out as Dillon himself admits, he ccould not be named for legal purposes. So that makes six men (remember Jackson had been expelled from the UDR several years before for reasons which remain unknown). Jackson's brother-in-law Samuel Fulton Neil provided one of the getaway cars, but no evidence exists that he was present at the scene of the attack. That leaves the mysterious Englishman, who has never been identified. The other men (Dillon gives a total of 10 at the checkpoint) were never caught or named. Crozier himself said the lives of his family would be endangered were he to give their names. McDowell was traced through his glasses, but it is alleged that Neil informed on Crozier, hence Jackson (allegedly) shooting him dead in January 1976.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)