Talk:Michael Beckwith/Archive 1

I truly love Dr. Beckwith
Although I truly love Dr. Beckwith. I feel that it is essential to inform readers that the entire entry is taken word for word from the press information on the website for Agape. There is no unbiased information at all in this entry. I am interested in why Beckwith left the Church of Religious Science and all the ramifications of it, and I can find nothing. This entry should NOT be taken as serious information, just propoganda.

Connection with Baha'is
I've heard from many Baha'is that he has taken most of his "thoughts" from the Baha'i faith, however he doesn't seem to credit the Baha'is or recognize the fact that he has. What can be done about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.17.140.21 (talk) 22:31, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Note about links
These links are to be avoided (see Wikipedia policy on Links normally to be avoided): —WikiLen 04:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Links to Amazon.com
 * Links to blogs — some exceptions
 * Links to commercial sites — some exceptions
 * Links to sites that only have an indirect relationship to this site

PHD ?
In his offical biography he uses a PHD title, but does not mention what is it ..
 * I couldn't find any reference to a PhD in his website, however he refers to himself as "D.D." (Doctor of Divinity). According to http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_Rev_Dr_michael_beckwith_receive_his_doctorate, it's an honorary degree, awarded by the United Church of Religious Science, now known as the United Centers for Spiritual Living.  Interestingly, the UCRS was founded by "Dr." Ernest Holmes, another fake "doctor", and Michael Beckwith is affiliated with the present incarnation of the UCRS, which means that one fake doctor has awarded another person who is now basically an employee, with another fake doctorate.Bricology (talk) 17:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding this. Not the least bit surprising. I think this church is passing out these honorary degrees left and right. Another example is a man named Harry Morgan Moses, who took over Living Enrichment Center from Mary Manin Morrissey after she resigned; the church later collapsed. Anyway, he often presents himself as "Dr. Rev." Harry Morgan Moses, but I'm pretty sure he didn't spend too much time in graduate school. It's most likely honorary as well. (Incidentally, John Gray,who appears in the The Secret as well, was discovered to not have a real accredited doctorate either.) Copy Editor (talk) 09:57, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Edit
Per the above section titled "Note about links", that explains the external links policy, I have removed more external links that violate this policy: YouTube (For having material that is copyrighted) and the links that were used as references that went to a blatant sales spam site. (http://thesgrprogram.com). Instead, I have linked to their "About" page, which is not as blatant, and is more relevant. I've also removed non-reliable sources from references, (Lightstreamers.com), and I have replaced the non-reliable source for the Oprah appearance with the actual page from Oprah's site. I question the use of www.agapelive.com as a reliable source, as that's not third-party, but I left it in. Please keep in mind that this article needs to not use peacock terms such as "prominently featured", etc., as these are not neutral, and that information must be cited with reliable sources per the biographies of living persons policy. I've added tags to passages that need to have proper citations added, or they may be removed, especially sentences that claim actions, such as "After the official launch of the program, Beckwith was removed from the marketing material due to the perceived commercial nature of the program."

Additionally, I have formatted the article to be in line with the manual of style, especially biographies, which states: Academic and professional titles (such as "Doctor" or "Professor") should not be used before the name in the initial sentence or in other uses of the person's name. This article was referring to the person in every instance as "Dr. Rev." which is not correct per the manual of style. Finally, a valid reliable source needs to be found to verify he has a Ph.D., as his biography states he has a D.D (doctor of divinity), which is not the same thing, academically.

To whomever monitors the article (and who knows who this person is), I urge you to find some reliable news sources to back up the statements that need citations. Thanks! Ariel ♥  Gold  08:47, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * A heads-up. Many high profile New Thought ministers are currently using the "Rev. Dr." prefixes in front of their names. What they aren't mentioning is that these are usually HONORARY doctorates passed out by New Thought-based non-accredited institutions. See, for example, Mary Manin Morrissey. She refers to herself occasionally as "Dr. Rev.", often forgetting to note that it is an honorary degree. -- Copy Editor 08:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Controversy section?
The more I read about Beckwith, the more I'm leaning towards the need for there to be a "controversy" section added to the entry. The matter of his "doctorate" being honorary rather than earned is, I believe, worthy of inclusion, and he has some definitely controversial associates, such as the woman who not only gave him his honorary DD, but performed his marriage ceremony -- Mary Manin Morrissey -- and David Schirmer, both of whom have been charged with fraud. Anyone know more? Bricology (talk) 18:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It may be interesting to note that Mary Manin Morrissey often conducts retreats with Bob Proctor, a presenter in The Secret (in which Beckwith appears). And David Schirmer recently sued Bob Proctor. So, it seems like an "interesting" group of people, to say the least. After finding that his doctorate is honorary, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that the size of his congregation has been inflated considerably. Copy Editor (talk) 09:42, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Editing without Discussion
I edited this article without discussion in accordance with policy listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons This is a quotation from that policy: "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." Additionally, this appears in a box above the "Editing Michael Beckwith" page (and ever page that edits a biographical entry: "This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced should not be added and if present, must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or if there are other concerns relating to this policy, please report it on the biographies of living persons noticeboard." Much of the material was clearly editorial and non-factual in nature. I removed this material.  Should this material be reposted, I will report it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard  Serious legal and moral implications surround biographical entries, and we must be careful in what we post.  I was fairly lax (by biographical standards) in what I removed, focusing on potentially libelous material. I flagged much of the rest of the article as needing a source. Quizoid (talk) 14:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is Beckwith's Wiki page left up in its current state? It's patent propaganda, as others have stated. here's what they have to say about Beckwith at Rick Ross's site:

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,30230,64674 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beachrose (talk • contribs) 19:25, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

A sad state to be in.
When we set our attenion to tear down another we prevent our own growth and creative potential. Reverand Beckwith has done and is doing great works around the world thru his message and actions. Where in conparison do the actions of nay sayers fall. Judge a man not by his word alone but by the actions that back them up. If the energy spent to tear one down was used to better others -- the world would be a far better place. Where is your attention? Do not see a person through the title bestowed upon them -- but rather the work they have done that others admire and felt bestowing was indeed valid. Be the becon of light not that that tries to smother it. We are all that and so much more. Realise your full potential and creativity as it will not be found in the belittleing of others and their work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.228.125.131 (talk) 03:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Dude, this guy is falsely presenting himself as a valid PhD - which he is NOT. Maybe you just don't like your hero scrutinized under the light. The controversies about his 'spiritual center' basically being a cynical front for a personal business are valid. And they need to be included in the Wiki page - instead of irresponsibly leaving this page in the sad state of propaganda it is currently in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beachrose (talk • contribs) 19:28, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

This page is clearly a cut and paste from the organization's own materials. This page needs objective information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.217.27.145 (talk) 05:35, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Started cleanup
I started cleaning up this mess of an article. Don't have time to finish cleaning it up so I apologize if there are some rough edges still. jheiv (talk) 20:08, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

What is this supposed to be?
"He is the originator of the Life Visioning Process, a time-tested technique ..." Seriously? It would be better to just delete the whole article than to have nonsense like this in Wikipedia. Really.

93.172.142.161 (talk) 08:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)Just a passerby

agreed, this is nonsense. can we at least get a controversy section here? this article is seriously flawed propaganda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aptpupil79 (talk • contribs) 03:00, 2 August 2010 (UTC)