Talk:Michael Gambon/Archive 1

Lathes
His collection of lathes has come up before, also with Merton, when Gambon appeared on Have I Got News For You, when he claimed to have something like 16 lathes. It's difficult to know whether he was joking or not though, especially as he added that this collection was "bigger than Tom Cruise's". --Thoughtcat 07:55, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Mickey Gambon, Early Years
Michael Gambon’s Early Years

I met Mickey Gambon early in 1957 when we both signed on as part of a group of fifty apprentices age 16 and up at Vickers Armstrong’s Crayford Works in Kent for a 5 year apprenticeship, he as a Toolmaker me a Fitter & Turner. We became mates partly because we shared the same cycle route daily to and from work. At that time I lived in Belvidere, Kent. To us ragtag apprentices the "b" in his surname was silent hence he was Mickey Gamon to us.Mick was an accomplish yarn spinner, thus during our tea breaks you would find Mick at the centre of a group of apprentices spewing forth tales and jokes whilst puffing on our favourite fags “Players Weights” bought in packets of 5 from our 12/6d weekly wages. Mick would have known me then as “Yokel” a nickname assigned because of my very broad ‘ampshire accent. I also have faint recall that he won an award in recognition of his craftsmanship in the tool room he was certainly highly regarded in that respect. Frequently on our way home after work Mick would stop off at Erith Playhouse for rehearsals where he was active in the Amateur Dramatic Society. Mickey never discussed his drama interests with his fellow apprentices so it was a shocking surprise when he announced in 1960 he was quitting his apprenticeship to attend drama school. I among others tried to dissuade him and urged him to finish his near completed apprenticeship before doing so, but without avail. I have read many accounts of Sir Michael’s youth none have so far got it quite right in detail, so I decided to put on record my recollections. Mick has earned a reputation for telling porkies, being sparing with the truth to suit his purpose, misleading the gulable, particularly the media. Well I can tell you this has been his forte all his adult life and why he is such an accomplished actor. He was always most adept and able at merging fact and fiction in a most convincing and effortless manner so that nobody knew which was which, maybe not even Michael. Since then finished my apprenticeship and I immigrated to Canada in ’67. and I never heard of Micky again until I saw him in the film TheTurtle Diary and recognized my old mate. On telling my wife “I know him that’s my mate from Vickers!” she just rolled her eyes and laughed. Since then I have attempted to contact Mick to meet up when back in UK but so far without success.

Tom Thornton Parksville BC Canad a e-mail : tta@telus.net

206.116.133.44 21:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

It would be nice to see a picture of Mickey in the old days as Wikipedia suffers from its lack of eligibility to publish photos, he certainly "has it" as an actor and ranks amongst the best that I have seen in awkward roles, it's amazing how difficult these people are to contact. Airing your memories would lead to authenication by a third party and eventual inclusion in an authorised history of him.

Topgear
- The last corner on the Topgear test track is named "Gambon". This is due to the fact that Gambon narrowly avoided a horriffic crash when he went round it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.243.253.217 (talk • contribs) 20:45, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Honours and Awards
Gambon has been created a Knight Bachelor and a Companion of the British Empire (CBE). To date he has not been created a Knight of the British Empire (KBE). As a Knight Bachelor, he is entitled to be styled 'Sir'. Unlike other British knighthoods, Knights Bachelor do not have a postnominal entitlement, so Gambon's correct full style is 'Sir Michael John Gambon, CBE'. The reference reflecting his creation as a Knight Bachelor is a primary source - ie the Gazette entry in which his award was promulgated. AusTerrapin 09:28, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Filmography
shouldn't the list be ordered from earliest to latest, like the theatre section is? The article needs to be consistent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.113.153 (talk) 11:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. rkmlai (talk) 05:24, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

User 77.209...s edits
I don't understand the problem with these edits. I see that you can't explain on the user's talk page, but could you explain here? They seem reasonable edits to me (i.e. not wanton vandalism). You say they are unsourced, but few of the performances are individually sourced. I am not, nor acquainted with, the 77.209... editor, just an interested observer. Rachel Pearce (talk) 11:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Well lets see


 * 1) No source provided for new info
 * 2) Continual entry of a pic that does not meet wikistandards and is continually removed.
 * 3) Linking of items that do not go to the correct page.
 * 4) Linking items already linked.
 * 5) Making a mess of the filmography
 * If you wish to clean all of this up the next time they make their entry plz do so. MarnetteD | Talk 07:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Maigret
Maigret (1992-1993) is one his best-known tv-roles, please add it. I would but the article is protected. Jr888 (talk) 13:24, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Whether it is one of his best known TV roles is open to debate. In any event, his performance as Maigret is already mentioned in the article if you would read it a bit closer. MarnetteD | Talk 15:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Nationality
Michael Gambon is a British actor born in Ireland, same as Stan Laurel was an American actor born in England. Gambon has been a British citizen long before he took to the stage, and if the passionate users reverting this page to state that he is Irish wish to keep it that way, could they please remove the Sir and OBE. You can't have both. --ThwartedEfforts 13:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Both the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland allow dual citizenship. JAJ 23:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I dare say, but Gambon is British and as is the custom round here his nationality should be presented in the opening paragraph. I have no clue as to why it is constantly meddled with, when Irish-born British is exactly how it is. It is completely not wrong. The last user to make the edit referred to the inclusion of the word British as 'vandalism'. I mean, what the? ThwartedEfforts 17:21, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * His parents where Irish, he was born in Ireland. Last time I checked, that makes him Irish-British, or the other way round. Billtheking 21:12, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Irish-British is actually how the article started out. Irish-born British was a compromise, but even that was vandalised. I'll try again with a note to refer to this talkpage. Of course we shouldn't forget that Irish ancestry is one of Wikipedia's running jokes, so doubtless I'll be doing the same edits over and over ThwartedEfforts 07:22, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Thwarted Efforts. You can't be a member of the British nobility and be from ROI unless you have a hereditary title created prior to parts of Ireland becoming independant. His nationality is British and such should be noted in the first sentence. Sources such as Encarta state him as British, but born in Ireland. I think we ought to change it to "Irish-born British", such (as TE rightly said) is wikipedia convention. Regards, --Cameron* 18:47, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Marriage
Gambon remains married to his first wife legally, but Phillipa Hart is listed as his spouse. They are not married, and it is unclear if they even live together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.28.237.131 (talk) 05:17, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Alexandr Ostrovsky
I have removed all the pipes to Alexandr Ostrovsky from the play titles. It is clear that most of the plays are not by him (e.g. it would be hard from him to have written a play about Tom Driberg. But if any of them were correct please put them back in. I am going to unlink the redlinks. Rachel Pearce (talk) 14:25, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

RE: Michael Gambon: Well, I am Irish
Michael Gambon: 'Well I am Irish and so I have a natural Irish accent and I remember Richard playing this and I thought well I'll chuck a bit of Irish in. No-one's ever questioned it. The first director said what's that funny accent you've got. I said it's a bit of Irish. He said oh well that's all right. (laughter).' Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/breakfast_with_frost/4548699.stm Dunlavin Green (talk) 17:57, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


 * We have no reference as good as this with his nationality. Maybe it was changed, maybe he is currently living in Ireland between filming, we do not know. The reference provided is 2005, the latest from a reputable source, the BBC, and in Gambon's own words. Please discuss before changing.--Filastin (talk) 14:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * He couldn't have a substantive knighthood without holding British nationality. He is still "ethnically" Irish of course, so he's not necessarily referring to his present legal nationality in this quote (possibly he holds dual nationality. David Underdown (talk) 14:51, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * What I am thinking is, could he hold either dual nationality or could his nationality have changed since the knighthood, it is likely in some way, if he himself considers himself Irish?--Filastin (talk) 16:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Nationality (again)
If we must list someone's nationality (which I don't think we should be doing) we should probably list his as dual nationality as we know for a fact that he has British Citizenship due to his knighthood, and was born in Ireland so most likely has Ireland nationality. Canterbury Tail  talk  16:53, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that he should he classified Irish-British, maybe???--Filastin (talk) 17:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think we have a style guide for how this would be handled. Normally I'd just suggest alphabetical order as that is normal general styling, but some may claim that is putting greater weight on his British citizenship over the Irish. How about "dual nationality Irish/British"? Canterbury Tail   talk  17:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We could dodge it to some extent and say "Irish born British resident". There was a long-standing consensus for the previous wording however which Filastin has challenged, but we should stick with the previous wording until a new consensus emerges.  It is wrong to simply say he's Irish however.  David Underdown (talk) 08:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think the reference offered is as clear-cut as believed by Filastin anyway, it's not at all clear he's talking about his legal nationality. He was born in Ireland, so even if he is now solely a British citizen, he undoubtedly feels Irish to some extent (and how many Americans, for example, would call themselves Irish, even though they've never been there, and Irish birth is 2-3 generations back?). He's been resident in the UK for about 60 of his 68 years. David Underdown (talk) 09:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * He's not just British resident though, he is a British citizen. In fact to be completely honest we don't actually know for sure he's an Irish citizen, very likely he is, but no real firm evidence other than a self-identification (which has nothing to do with your nationality/citizenship.) Ian Paisley, for example, has described himself as Irish on many occasions, yet I'm sure isn't an Irish citizen, it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing. Canterbury Tail   talk  11:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Nationality (yet again)
Gambon being British is footnoted with a link to this page on the bbc. The word "British" does not appear on that page but Gambon does say the following:


 * "Well I am Irish and so I have a natural Irish accent..."

Following guidelines, I think we should describe him as he describes himself. — Blue-Haired Lawyer 12:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Whilst he's Irish-born, and may well regard himself as "ethnically" Irish, there's no doubt that he holds British nationality, or he would not have a substantive knighthood. The long-standing version of the lead addresses both aspects of this, which are nto necessarily mutually exclusive.  David Underdown (talk) 09:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't disagree but he describes himself as "Irish" and he is undoubtedly an Irish citizen. The rule on Wikipedia is that we should describe people as they describe themselves. Do you have a source where he describes himself as "British"? — Blue-Haired Lawyer 11:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Do we know he still actually holds Irish citizenship? Yes we have one cite where he describes himself as being Irish, but as that is as much a matter of "ethnicity" as citizenship, we dobn't know that he meant it in terms of citizenship.  I don't think the quote and the context it comes from is sufficiently clear to make this an over-riding self-identification.  David Underdown (talk) 14:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I reject this notion that describing oneself as Irish is merely representative of ethnicity and not nationality. He says he's Irish and he was born in Dublin. The only way he would no longer be a Irish citizen would be if he renounced it. If anything we should describe him as "Irish-British" or "British-Irish". — Blue-Haired Lawyer 14:54, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry I didn't read your edit as I thought you'd just reverted mine. I perfectly happy with the current version. — Blue-Haired Lawyer 14:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It always did describe him as Irish-British. I really don't think we can draw too many conclusions from the BBC article cited anyway, it's a throwaway remark in the context of him using an Irish accent for something.  But now we seem to have agreed that the current wording is OK, so lets leave it there.  David Underdown (talk) 15:26, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Sexual Orientation
Is there any point to the comment about Gambon's sexual orientation not being much debated? By pointing this out, isn't it suggesting that salacious discussion of other people's sexuality is acceptable? Unless there is something substantive to say on the matter, I think this reference should be deleted. Wikipedia is not the place for tabloid sensation, however mildly put. Comments please? Peeper 09:04, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * No responses - comment removed.Peeper 18:22, 4 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Perhaps a comment could be made about Gambon's appearance with Paul Merton on Room 101, where he came across as a rebarbative, cranky individual until presented with a watchmaker's lathe, showing rather more humanity as a result

In WikiWorld, every notable person is assumed to sexually inverted unless proven otherwise by citation.Lestrade (talk) 18:11, 18 June 2010 (UTC)Lestrade

British/Knighthood
The fact that there are editors here who imply that being knighted makes them British is a joke, that is all politically motivated nonsense,Alex Ferguson and Sean Connery are both Scotsmen with knighthoods yet they are not described as British, I am changing this.Sheodred (talk) 10:27, 16 September 2010 (UTC)


 * As far as I can see, nobody has said or implied that being knighted made Michael Gambon British. It's the other way round: he must have held British nationality, otherwise he couldn't have received a substantive knighthood. PhilG (talk) 20:08, 7 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Ferguson and Connery are British de facto, by virtue of the fact that they are Scots, same for the English, Welsh and Northern Irish, all of them are British whether they like it or not. Being knighted does not confer British citizenship, but the point is, if he was not legally a British citizen, he would not have received a "full" (my word for it) knighthood, it would have been an "honorary" knighthood like Bob Geldof's. – ukexpat (talk) 20:32, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

filmography
Someone should check the cast of the '70s movie/TV film "Catholics, starring Trevor Howard and Martin Sheen. I believe Gambon played one of the monks in an Irish monastery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.214.222.248 (talk) 19:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Nationality
Should the lede refer to Gambon as "Irish born British" or "Irish-British"? 79.97.144.17 (talk) 18:46, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't think "Irish-born British" is an adequate description at all. It makes it sound like he's British but happened to have been born in Ireland, rather than someone who's Irish and emigrated to Britain, later becoming a British citizen. I think Irish-British or Irish-British (with a link to the Irish migration to Great Britain article) is a better descriptor, particularly given that he's explicitly stated "I am Irish" in at least 2 separate interviews. 79.97.144.17 (talk) 12:54, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * See all the discussions above. He is a British citizen and lives in Britain. That makes him Irish-born British. Span (talk) 18:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * He is also an Irish citizen, which makes him Irish-British. 79.97.144.17 (talk) 18:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Irish-British - It appears that he is both Irish and British, both citizenship-wise and culturally. The fact that he calls himself "Irish" in the sources listed above means that "Irish-born British" is not really acceptable. We, as editors, cannot pick and choose one nationality over the other for favored treatment.  Both Irish and British should be presented equally to the readers.  --Noleander (talk) 16:36, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Neither. It seems that he has joint citizenship, and so the clearest thing for the lead would be to say just that: "...is an actor with joint British and Irish citizenship who...". "Irish-British" is unclear and sounds like he is British with Irish ancestry ("Italian American"). "Irish-born British" sounds like it is not accurate, assuming it is true that he is of dual nationality. --FormerIP (talk) 12:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Neither. I second FormerIP's suggestion of "...is an actor with joint British and Irish citizenship who...". This states the facts of the matter without getting tied up in "Irishness" or "Britishness". —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 09:23, 23 September 2011 (UTC)


 * His ethnicity is Irish and his nationality is Irish, he is merely an Irish man living in Britain ,that does not equate to being Irish-British, that is like saying Pierce Brosnan is Irish-American, stop this POV nonsense,Sean Connery lives in Marbella and it doesn't make him a Spaniard.Sheodred (talk) 16:14, 24 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Neither. "An actor with joint British and Irish citizenship" is fine. If in doubt, tell it like it is. Legal citizenship is not POV. Nationality has become a political football in Wikipedia articles and it gets too pointy for my liking. Span (talk) 18:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Irish born British actor
Is perfectly acceptable. You have to appreciate that A, 66 of 71 years in a country you would be automatically of that nation also the big clue is, his father made him a BRITISH citizen — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.145.177.43 (talk) 03:34, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Has he read the books or not?
A change recently made in this article says that Gambon has in fact readthe books, and even says that interviews on the DVD release of the prisoner of azkaban prove it. It doesn't give any citation though, and the change was made very recently by an unregistered user (granted, I am also an unregistered user, but you get my point.) I didn't undo it though becuase i'd like some confirmation on if this is true or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.69.48 (talk) 23:55, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you can take for granted that even the very laziest of Actors would read the source material for the screenplay to gain background/insight into a film he/she was in, sometimes quite extensively so they can let some of the flavour of the books seep into their performances - The characters which tend to be much less defined in a script where space is a premium where a character can be vastly expanded apon over the course of what were there, 7 books?

VinDibs (talk) 23:32, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

ENGLISH but born in Ireland
WILL YOU PLEASE GO TO THE LINK OF THE INTERVIEW

HE IS ASKED, BY RTE, DO YOU FEEL IRISH? HE SAYS NO. I'VE BEEN HER FAR TOO LONG. IN THE ARTICLE ITSELF IT NOTES THAT HIS FATHER NATURALISED HIM AS A BRIT.

ADDITIONALLY LATER, HE SAYS ABOUT GOING FOR AN AUDITION IN DUBLIN AND HOW HE HAD NEVER BEEN OUT OF CAMDEN ALL HIS LIFE.

STOP CLAIMING THE GUY AS IRISH BECAUSE HES TALENTED.

by your COMPLETELY MAD RECONNING that makes ADAM CLAYTON OF U2, 13 March 1960 (age 52) Chinnor, Oxfordshire, England

ENGLISH

and

The Edge, DAVE EVANS. ENGLISH with WELSH parents.

Play the game you have to stick to ONE rule for all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VinDibs (talk • contribs) 00:39, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Stop changing his nationality to Irish
Read the bloody source provided. Sir Michael now identifies himself as English. That was the originally logic that was used to describe him as Irish. You can't have it both ways. If someone can find a newer source to the contrary then fine, but until then stop changing it. It's vandalism, pure and simple. This is not O'Wikipedia and Gambon is English, get over it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.109.72.78 (talk) 13:01, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmmm OK I see it now, but it's awful the way you guys treat it as point-scoring. This should be about fact-seeking, as always, and respecting BLP. Always. --Τασουλα (talk) 23:27, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well said! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones / The Welsh Buzzard 19:08, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Citizenship
I've had the addition of his Irish citizenship reverted twice on the basis that having only British as his citizenship is "established by consensus" and "more accurate". All the discussion above is about what to state as his nationality in the lead. This is a different concept that has to take into account issues such as residency and self-identity. Citizenship is a purely legal concept determined purely by whether the government recognises the individual as a member of their state. This issue is far more clear cut. Having been born in Ireland Michael Gambon is an Irish citizen until he renounces it. By listing his citizenship as solely British you are therefore stating that he is no longer Irish without evidence that shows that this is the case. Eckerslike (talk) 21:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree on this one, describing his nationality and stating his legal citizenships (of which it is possible to have more than one) are two different concepts.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 21:44, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * No problem. Citizenship should always be uncontroversial.--Τασουλα (talk) 22:00, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Michael Gambon, incomplete
Hello, I am a writer from Wikipedia, I saw the article by the actor Michael Gambon and I think this a bit incomplete. I would like rellernar that voids, but that the article should be unprotected. Please, who has Semi-protected so that unprotected. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.209.95.129 (talk) 23:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC) –&#32; Gareth Griffith-Jones &#124; The Welsh Buzzard &#124; 08:47, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I understood that, up to the word incomplete. After that, I understood all the individual words, except rellernar, but could make no sense of the sentences. Koro Neil (talk) 01:23, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It was written four and a half years ago, Koro Neil. I shouldn't bother yourself about it. Should be archived –&#32;

13 November 2012 Nationality
In that case, could this be changed to Irish-British then? As all I see written is English. And on a side note, an accent does not define a person's nationality. Carbhat (talk) 19:04, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The reason he is refered to as English in the lead paragraph is because Gambon identifies himself as English see the source given. However the fact that he is legally also an Irish citizen is reflected in the infobox.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 19:24, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * He seems to be disputing this himself, and to me it looks like he isn't quite sure himself. However, the fact that he was  born in Ireland to Irish parents  should at least merit the showing of this in the opening line.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carbhat (talk • contribs) 20:48, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That interview was in 2005, where as the one with The Arts Desk was in 2010. I believe it's fair that the latest one should be given precendent. Plus, the two aren't exactly comparable. The BBC interview is more talking about his heritage and upbringing, where as the 2010 interview he was asked specifically whether he identifies himself English or Irish. --Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 21:01, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand that the source I gave was older than yours, however, using the fact that he was asked directly is not important in this case as much as the answer is, and reading both you can see that the answer in the 2005 interview was direct, not questioning as if uncertain like in the 2010 interview. 2005 - "Well I am Irish and so I have a natural Irish accent", in comparison to 2010 - "I suppose I can't get away from it, I'm English, aren't I?" See how he answers with a question? He is uncertain about calling himself English, but not about calling himself Irish. What I'm arguing for is not that he is identified as just Irish, but to be identified as Irish-British, and I have given enough evidence for this to be changed. Carbhat (talk) 21:13, 13 November 2012 (UTC
 * Well no, the fact that he's answered with a question doesn't mean he's uncertain, that's frankly simply you twistin)g his words to suit yourself. Deciding that there's a hidden meaning behind it based on a previous interview is original research. What we have is the most up to date source where Gambon identifies himself as English, and that is what is reflected. Unless there is a source where he describes himself as British and Irish, we can't really say as much --Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 21:30, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Then why would he be asking for confirmation on his own words? And you have yet to give me a reason why it can't be put down that he is Irish-British. I have no source that says he identifies himself as both Irish and British, however having one source say he is English and another saying he is Irish is almost the same thing. So please, give me a valid reason why it can't be changed, and I will pursue this no further. Carbhat (talk) 21:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * He's not asking for confirmation, it's a rhetorical question, a common language mannerism and device in the English language. I have already told you why; Wikipedia is a encyclopedia of verified sources. The most recent source we have on Gambon's indentification of his nationality is him describing himself as English. Not only does he describe himself as English, but he is given a choice of Irish as well but chooses not to identify himself as such. That is pretty definitive in my opinion. --Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 22:06, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * In mine, too. I do feel this conversation is lost high up the page here. There are several threads with the same title or near the same on this page and this is the first.  With both of you giving your permission, I am moving it so that other interested editors are more likely to read it it.  Sincerely,  -- Gareth Griffith-Jones / The Welsh Buzzard 19:42, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The fact that he identified himself as British does not somehow magically take away the fact that he is a citizen of both Ireland and England. It doesn't need to be changed to just Irish, as I know that is as incorrect as calling him just British, I want it to be changed to British-Irish or Irish-British, with perhaps a link to the Irish emigration to England. I think this would settle all the arguments here once and for all, and at the end of the day, it is the fairest option. The page was set to this up till last year, where it seemed to suddenly change to solely British. I see no discussion on this change so I don't see how that wasn't flagged as vandalism and changed back. Carbhat (talk) 00:36, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Although I sympathise with the point you are making, neither British-Irish nor Irish-British are recognised expressions in this country ... whereas in the USA they do use Italian-American et cetera. Really, it should be as Michael Gambon would expect to read here –  Gareth Griffith-Jones   – The Welsh  Buzzard''  – 12:54, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Could it be possible that today's revision by IP:82.31.138.48 be the solution to this gnarled chestnut:- (born 19 October 1940) is an Irish-born English actor who has worked in theatre, television and film.

– Gareth Griffith-Jones   – The Welsh  Buzzard''  – 19:03, 22 January 2013 (UTC) – Gareth Griffith-Jones   – The Welsh  Buzzard''  – 08:37, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh noes! It's evil English imperialism at work on wikipedia! Quick lock up your daughters the maurading anglo-saxons are coming!...wait that's just Bill and his Grandma carrying the shopping they struggle to buy every week, the reality faced by more than a few people in England. Still doesn't stop those Celts with their tree gods thinking the English are a bunch of neo-imperialist invaders who all support the BNP/EDL, right? Damn those English for trying to steal great men like M. Gambon! The Queen will soon release her evil flying monkey's from the balcony of Buckingham palace (built on the skulls of a million Celts of course!) to take the rest of this Island for the English! Mwahahaha!--85.210.102.41 (talk) 08:14, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ha, ha, ha! Good post ... from possibly the seat of British learning, no less?

SIR = BRITISH
THERE HAS AND WILL NEVER BE AN IRISH KNIGHT — Preceding unsigned comment added by VinDibs (talk • contribs) 23:18, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. Murry1975 (talk) 03:21, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The shouty person above does sort of have a point in the above sections. In contrast to the 2004/05 BBC interviews used to describe him as Irish, the 2010 interview specifically asks him about whether he identifies as Irish and Gambon says no. --92.4.177.142 (talk) 04:22, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You are right, that interview clearly trumps the sources that are used to cite him as Irish. This has been pointed out many times but is clearly being ignored by the O'Wikipedia brigade. Unless anyone can provide a more recent source that contradicts this, I'll simply go ahead and change it myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.109.72.78 (talk) 18:18, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * OH MY GOD... is Michael Gambon really 72? Ahem. I never really questioned his Irishness, I mean why the hell would I? He (in the older source) Self-identified as such and that's to be respected. OK OK, so it's now changed, and I have the same level of respect. The only thing I disagreed with him on was his accent, it has a hint of Irish at best. --Τασουλα (talk) 23:36, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Sir Michael Terence Wogan, KBE, DL (born 3 August 1938) is an Irish radio and television broadcaster who holds dual Irish and British citizenship.

-- Gareth Griffith-Jones / The Welsh Buzzard 19:06, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * This is a little different to Terry Wogan, as this has come from the horses mouth. I DO find it amusing how he has suddenly decided he's English - or was he just having people on about the Irish thing? Or maybe he's having people on now? He must of been kidding about having an Irish accent though. Maybe he's trolling us. --Τασουλα (talk) 19:39, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Ha,ha! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones / The Welsh Buzzard 19:43, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * OH wait, you weren't talking about that. Here's an Irish Knight: Balthazar Bourke, what a name. --Τασουλα (talk) 19:48, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Helluva name! I consider his being a knight of the Order of Santiago stretching it a bit being a British knight.   -- Gareth Griffith-Jones / The Welsh Buzzard 21:18, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * One thing that some people seem to have overlooked is that Gambon is a Knight Bachelor. That virtually proves he's a British subject or at least a citizen of a Commonwealth realm.  Because whenever non-subjects are awarded honorary knighthoods, it is always done via membership of an order such as the Order of the British Empire, Order of the Bath etc.  Knight Bachelors are never honorary, and are always given to subjects of the Queen.  Now, Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and people from there routinely describe themselves as "Irish".  That word alone does not necessarily mean the speaker is a citizen of the Republic, although it could.  But he himself has said he's English.  Case closed.  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  03:55, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * There you are, and Nicolae Ceaușescu was a Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath during his British phase, but NB has since been removed from Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath...78.19.218.128 (talk) 22:55, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Call him Irish-English or Irish-born English and be done with it!
SIGNED, THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND. --85.211.120.118 (talk) 15:51, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It doesn't encroach on the source for where he describes himself as English. It's not making him any "less" English OR Irish.
 * His citizenship is both Irish and British.
 * Until very recently, he was self-describing as Irish. He's pretty obviously trolling the nationalists on here!! Lmao. ;-)
 * It may stop all the bickering.

RFC Nationality
I am completely open to including the fact that he self-identifies as English as per the interview, but he also self-identifies as Irish per these interviews: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-features/9596580/Michael-Gambon-Trevor-Nunn-and-Eileen-Atkins-on-a-Beckett-weve-never-seen.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2004/06/01/gary_oldman_michael_gambon_azkaban_interview.shtml http://www.mugglenet.com/mediasp/2004/november/michaelgambonrobbiecoltrane.shtml

The source that a few editors who hold unwavering nationalistic perspectives is full of contradictions and stems back from 2010, they are using that interview to "trump" a previous one from 2012 regarding him describing himself as Irish, where here www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-features/9596580/Michael-Gambon-Trevor-Nunn-and-Eileen-Atkins-on-a-Beckett-weve-never-seen.html and www.mugglenet.com/mediasp/2004/november/michaelgambonrobbiecoltrane.shtml Michael Gambon descrbes himself as Irish.

Hence I feel it is wrong and inaccurate for certain editors to deliberately leave this fact due to nationalistic point-scoring, irrespective of the facts.

I ask for people to support the revision of the lede.

He was born and raised in Ireland to Irish parents during his youth, he states that he is Irish in the interview but also identifies as English. He has never renounced his Irish identity so it should not be left out.ÓCorcráin (talk) 18:17, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * An interview from 2010 trumps one from 2004. As discussed above, if he identified as Irish in 2004 and English in 2010, the 2010 ref is the way to go. It states his birthplace plenty of times in the article; what's the issue?
 * Also, read WP:BRD and stop edit-warring. If you have been reverted, don't re-revert, or you'll find yourself in trouble. — Jon C.  ॐ  18:46, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It trumps nothing unless he said in the interview he no longer identifies as Irish, that is a poor excuse for omitting his Irish identity, you are really clutching at straws here, it is quite unbelievable looking at these excuses coming out.


 * Also in this 2010 interview you are referring to he also quoted: "because I'm Irish they might be nice to me."


 * "No one ever spoke to me about it. Not a word. On the first film I did which was directed by Alfonso Cuaron I walked in there and I'm naturally Irish and my first accent is Irish, I will speak Irish with my parents, and I played just a slight touch of Trinity College Dublin. That light lilt. I did that and Alfonso said, "What's the accent here?" I said, "Irish." He said, "That's OK." And no one's ever mentioned it. I'm a little bit more camp, I think, a bit lighter."


 * Here is another interview taken from October 2012 last year! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-features/9596580/Michael-Gambon-Trevor-Nunn-and-Eileen-Atkins-on-a-Beckett-weve-never-seen.html So by your logic we should leave English out because "An interview from 2012 trumps one from 2010" Orwould it be more convenient if those quotations from the exact same 2010 interview along with the above interview are ignored? This is why the excuses being made fro leaving out him being Irish is absurd and is nothing more than nationalistic narrow-minded nonsense.ÓCorcráin (talk) 20:22, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * If you could be bothered to read the entire inteview, you'd have seen a little down where he was asked
 * Do you still feel Irish?
 * And he replied
 * No, been here too long.
 * Unless I've forgotten what 'no' means, that's case closed geezer, he HAS renounced his Irish identity, end of story.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 20:28, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I am sorry but that interview you are referring and the recent Telegraph interview from a few months ago contradicts what you are saying. I suggest that you take your point-scoring,in-your-face nationalistic attitude elsewhere. ÓCorcráin (talk) 20:34, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Did I type that in Swahili or something? He was asked point blank whether he feels Irish and he says no. Was that not the criterea you asked for above? You, with a username like that, have come here and are intent on trying to emphasise that Gambon should be Irish first and then British, and you have the nerve to say that others are engaging in petty nationalistic point scoring? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk • contribs) 21:00, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * You are deliberately ignoring the recent interviews where he described and called himself Irish, to be honest your attitude does not surprise me 99% of your edits consist of just adding "British" to articles. I don't have time for your immature nationalistic fanaticism. ÓCorcráin (talk) 13:39, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * What interviews? Of the three links, two are from 2004, which leaves one singluar inteview, which he says Irish once in the context that he is of Irish ancestry. On the other hand, we have a source in which he said straight up that he does not self-identify as Irish, and instead considers himself English. That is the criterea you asked for, for him to specifically say that, so why are you now trying to move the goal posts?
 * Also, accusing others of something you yourself are blatantly engaging in will get you no where and only makes yourself look silly.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 14:07, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This interview from just a few months ago, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-features/9596580/Michael-Gambon-Trevor-Nunn-and-Eileen-Atkins-on-a-Beckett-weve-never-seen.html, he clearly states that he is Irish.ÓCorcráin (talk) 14:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you even bother reading other people's comments? He's says he's Irish in the context of his Irish heritage and background, which allows him to put on a good Irish accent. That's not 'clearly', not by a long shot. On the other hand, we have a source in which he straight up says he's an Englishman, and straight up doesn't identify as Irish.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 14:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "He's says he's Irish only in the context of his Irish heritage and background" I am sorry, did he specifically say that? You ramble on about context, you really are clutching at straws, perhaps you should follow your own advice. ÓCorcráin (talk) 14:58, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I take it you don't understand the concept of puting things into context if you're asking things like that? And if you're going to talk about saying specifically, do you know what he does specifically say? That's right, that he is English and doesn't identify as Irish.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 15:06, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ironic, on the contrary,it seems you don't, you keep referring to an interview where he never said he wasn't Irish, and you ignore all the evidence that contradicts what you are saying in recent interviews. It is clear that you have no interest in making constructive edits or engaging in intelligent discussion, it's all "British this, grunt, British that", you are repetitive and all you engage in is nationalistic nonsense and editing, I suggest you get a hobby or an organization where you can fill out your racist nationalistic desires to your hearts content, perhaps the BNP, National Front or EDL would be a better outlet for you than Wikipedia. Strongbow is a horrible drink by the way, might I suggest Magners instead. ;) ÓCorcráin (talk) 16:33, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh here we go, I was wondering how long it would take before you snapped and launched into a typical cliche anti-English rant. Are you one of those people that thinks that history means you yourself can't be racist, jingoistic, nationalistic etc.? You accuse me of all of that, but look in a bloody mirror. It really isn't all that hard to comprehend- Gambon is ethnically part Irish, but clearly doesn't identify as such, and instead considers himself English.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 17:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't make me laugh, I called you out on what you are, than you try to deflect from yourself by labelling me and what I said as being "anti-English", thus suggesting to people that I am just a racist, pray do tell me, what in my comment is anti-English? Oh wait ther isn't anything. Absolutely pathetic of you.ÓCorcráin (talk) 02:43, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

–&#32; Gareth Griffith-Jones &#124; The Welsh Buzzard &#124; 08:58, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose I am happy for the article to just say he is English in the lead. He spent most of his youth in England and has British nationality. It says later that he was born in Ireland and worked there a while, but I see no burning need to say Irish in the lead if he is happy to say he does not feel Irish. Born in Ireland is as far as I'd go. Dmcq (talk) 01:29, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose I feel no need to add to User:Dmcq's lucid posting immediately above with which I concur –&#32;
 * This is not a vote.
 * Fuck me pink it is tiresome seeing the same editors popping up on articles trying to remove any mention of people's Irishness, bunch of clowns with nothing better to do.


 * Oppose, not because I particularly care whether he is called English or Irish, but because "self-identification" has no place in the first sentence of a biographical article. It's a useless enough argument even on a talk page! What's wrong with "Irish-born English actor", as it says on Wikiquote? --Scolaire (talk) 09:49, 18 March 2013 (UTC) Changing the question after people have answered is not best practice. I have no position on the substantive issue, so I will post a comment below.  Scolaire (talk) 19:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I am just looking for the lede to be revised. ÓCorcráin (talk) 13:39, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * 'Irish born' strikes me rather like 'Catholic born', next we'll have 'Unionist born' or 'capitalist born'. I think 'born in Ireland' or 'born of Irish parents' describes the situation better in most circumstances than 'Irish born'. Dmcq (talk) 17:39, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

–&#32; Gareth Griffith-Jones &#124; The Welsh Buzzard&#124; — 21:43, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support, the lede should be revised, the source that the editor's opposing the change use is invalid considering Michael Gambon's recent comments in the recent interview mentioned above.109.77.5.162 (talk) 14:10, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: Self-identification is one of the the least useful criteria of nationality in most cases, especially with somebody who says "I am Irish" or "I am not Irish" depending on the interview or the time of year. Sources are the best measure: if there are comparable numbers of reliable third-party sources (i.e. not interviews) saying he is Irish, English or Irish-English then the opening sentence should reflect that, but in a neutral way and preferably without the refs. Scolaire (talk) 08:41, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Neutral, what do you expect, he's an actor.78.19.218.128 (talk) 22:59, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I like how user ÓCorcráin has retrospectively edited his posts over a month after this debate has died in an attempt to put things out of context in his favour--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 21:26, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * "Hear, hear!" to that ... and why didn't ÓCorcráin (talk) post at the bottom of this page, I wonder –&#32;
 * Ok trolls I'll bite, show me word for word what have I just recently "retrospectively edited" to take things out of context in my 'favour'. You still have not answered my question "Allthestrongbowintheworld", what did I say was anti-English as you claim? ÓCorcráin (talk) 13:20, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Get a grip and go do something productive. — Jon C.  ॐ  13:27, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree JonC, that is what they should do, maybe yourself too, at least OCorcrain tried to have a neutral compromise for everyone. All your one-sided uncompromising nationalistic bullshit is ridiculous. 109.77.76.230 (talk) 13:49, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * And you are...? How is your first two edits to Wikipedia have been to talk this talk page, Mr Mystery IP? — Jon C.  ॐ  14:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * You can call me bob jonny boy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.76.230 (talk) 14:18, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Why wasn't the RfC closed properly?
I've just been given a DR/N notice because of some edit warring here. What I'd like to know is why the RfrC wasn't closed properly and so get some baseline before going into dispute resolution. If you want an admin to close an RfC the place to put in a request is WP:AN. Dmcq (talk) 18:46, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The great majority of RfCs are not closed by uninvolved editors. The template is automatically removed after thirty days. Most just get archived, but there's probably no automatic archiving on this page. Scolaire (talk) 07:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I will take responsibility for that since I opened it. I will put in a request since we got nowhere with it, thanks for bringing that to my attention. ÓCorcráin (talk) 20:54, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * If you opened it, then you are allowed to close it yourself. See WP:RFC. Just put at the top and  at the bottom. the "xxx" text in the header can be something like "No resolution. Taken to DRN". You can then delete your request at AN. They'll be relieved, I can assure you.  Scolaire (talk) 07:41, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it would be better to ask for an admin to close it than to just go into edit warring and dispute resolution. Has an attempt been made to resolve it on the talk page is the first question at dispute resolution. Then an admin can decide if there is no obvious resolution here. Dmcq (talk) 09:12, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I did some checking it seems it already has been closed and archived for some time already. ÓCorcráin (talk) 11:38, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It wasn't, but it is closed now. Since editors have so far failed to engage at DRN, I've taken out all mention of nationality until they do. Scolaire (talk) 07:49, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * That's because they're waiting for someone to take up the dispute and set the ground rules rather than just have them continue the arguments like here. Dmcq (talk) 11:39, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I mean the warring editors have failed to engage. They need to make an opening statement before the discussion can begin. Scolaire (talk) 12:54, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I've written a couple of lines there on what I thought about the matter. No comments about them warring except my remark implies I think both of the warring sides are wrong. Dmcq (talk) 13:30, 25 June 2013 (UTC)