Talk:Michael Gambon/Archive 2

Infobox image
Looks like we have an image (finally) that might be proper for the infobox. One request to anyone who knows how to work with them. Would it be possible to crop the large amount of black space above MG's head? It isn't needed and it would reduce the length that the pic currently take up in the infobox. Alternatively does anyone know what Help desk/wikiproject noticeboard would be a good place to post this request. Thanks for your time to any respondents. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 03:41, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for taking the time to crop the pic. It looks much better now. Your efforts are much appreciated. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 15:48, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! :) – Velo Vrbata (talk) 16:25, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Nationality (yet again again)
Seems to have been the main point of discussion here over the past 12 years. Is there any consensus for anything at all? There is both the lead section and the infobox to consider, not to mention the Cats, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:14, 3 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what his official Nationality now is but while he was born in Ireland and may ethnically be Irish, he definitely spent most of his life in England and he was made a British citizen sometime after he moved there. Although theres no source to support it, I'd say his current Nationality is definitely English otherwise he most likely wouldn't have been Knighted because usually people with Irish Nationality currently aren't Knighted (please correct me if I'm mistaken). Not to mention if people have a British/UK passport, it means their Nationality will be British (whether its English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish) regardless of their original ethnicity as Nationality and Citizenship are two different things and only the Nationality should be mentioned in the lead. I think if there a source which verifies that his Nationality is Irish, we can keep the lead the way it is now, however, if a source verifies his Nationality is now English, it should be changed either to "Irish-born British" (similar to Des Lynam whose background is similar to Gambon's) or "Irish-born English" because thats the best way to minimise confusion. Although the previous discussions above seem to indicate an agreement of his Nationality being an Irish-born British/English person, I think its best to find a source which states his current Nationality and act accordingly because this topic is becoming repetitive here. Broman178 (talk) 11:51, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response. I thought British people could normally be knighted, not just English people? But I see what you mean. I agree that good sources would probably provide the best way, or even only way, forward. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:08, 11 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Not a problem. I'll see if I can find any reference later on if I am free as to what his Nationality currently is and if it is English, the sentence might have to be changed again. Broman178 (talk) 18:14, 11 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Sorry it took me so long as I've been busy with other things, however, I've looked at these references below:


 * https://www.famousbirthdays.com/people/michael-gambon.html
 * https://theartsdesk.com/theatre/theartsdesk-qa-actor-michael-gambon
 * https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/entertainment/irish-born-harry-potter-professor-dumbledore-becomes-father-at-68-50143972-237649941
 * https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/3753619/fearless-cast-michael-gambon-helen-mccrory-itv/


 * These references mostly seem to indicate that he is an English actor but Irish born at the same time, however, they don't actually confirm whether his Nationality really is English or whether its still Irish (while he seems to identify himself more as English now, I think there were a few interviews in the past where he said he identified himself as Irish e.g. Michael Gambon, Trevor Nunn and Eileen Atkins on a Beckett we’ve never seen), they just seem to say that he is a British citizen which doesn't really mean much as its mostly the Nationality which needs to be added in the lead. Unless you are happy with some of these references, I'll keep it the way it is now and I might have to do some more digging later on for a reference which officially confirms his current nationality. Broman178 (talk) 09:25, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
 * FamousBirthdays.com isn't reliable. --Ronz (talk) 21:59, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you are right in this aspect although these references were just an idea I gained regardless of whether one of them is not reliable, don't think they are enough to confirm his current Nationality so I won't use them, although if anyone else thinks differently for the reliable ones, its up to them whether to use them or not. Broman178 (talk) 11:59, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

English surely ?
In the interview that is a link on this page, Michael is asked the question, do you still feel Irish? He says no been here too long. Also considering that he has spent 92% of his life in England. He is basically a cockney with an Irish hat.

If you worked on the same rules with 2 of U2, One would be English with Welsh parents and the other English. But usually the 4 of U2 are said to be Irish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.145.177.43 (talk) 03:27, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

As a an anonymous friend, I can te 'll you when he's had a drink his Irish accent comes out rather strongly! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.99.89 (talk) 00:16, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Marriage again
I am staggered that the names of his children have been removed as they are a matter of public record. I have been told all the marriage and family info has been removed as there's no citation, leaving the page looking as if he has no family.They are Fergus, from his wife Lady Ann Gambon, and Tom and Will, from his relationship with Philippa Hart. For some unknown reason people kept stating he has a son named Michael, which is untrue. He visits Ms Hart but they don't live together. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.99.89 (talk) 00:24, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

"Partner" parameter
Shouldn't Gambon's ongoing partner be listed in the infobox? Of course the private details of his relationships aren't exactly privy to us, but he appears to be both legally married and in a relationship with the mother of two of his children. Both pertain to him, biographically, unless there has been further consensus on this issue.--Bettydaisies (talk) 02:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:22, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Michael Gambon 2011.jpg

Nationality
If the nationality is to be changed again we need to have a solid reference. A joke by Mr. Gambon to put an interviewer at ease is not a change of nationality. If it was we could all change nationality 100 times a day. Gambon is Irish. Provide evidence he has taken dual citizenship or further edits will have to be reported as vandalism. JamPowWex (talk) 10:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * (Weary). He's Sir Michael Gambon. If he weren't a British (or Commonwealth) citizen he would only hold an honorary knighthood, like Bob Geldof.--AntientNestor (talk) 11:48, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * (Believe me, significantly more weary). That does not change his nationality. Bob Marley would be in the same boat, for the same legal reason, is he British? No. Is Gambon English? No. JamPowWex (talk) 11:58, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Reverted.--AntientNestor (talk) 12:18, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I refer you to
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom
 * specifically
 * http://assets.cambridge.org/97805217/71887/sample/9780521771887ws.pdf
 * Please stop making changes to this person's nationality. You are conflating nationality and citizenship and not even getting that much right. The UK presents some complicated legal issues on that front but again, him saying it once in one interview that he felt English does not grant him nationality. To continue to assert so is nonsense. JamPowWex (talk) 13:22, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2023
Can the years active get changed from 1962-2023 to 1962-2019? ,. Thank you. 2601:18C:9082:A6F0:A159:3D1E:875A:F4A3 (talk) 13:12, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ by . GoingBatty (talk) 13:33, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

RfC: Nationality
When I found out he's dead, I edited the page few times, including the nationality. I changed it to "Irish and English", but it got reverted to "Irish-English". Why not have a vote between which nationality should be stated in the lead - "Irish and English" or "Irish-English"?  RM X Y  (talk) 01:42, 29 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Should have been neither of those options. Tvx1 02:43, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Neither. England is part of the UK. The correct term would be British-Irish. 109.145.66.215 (talk) 06:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Sentence wrong
The following sentence is incorrect. "His father arranged for him to be made a British citizen, a decision that would later allow him to receive a substantive (rather than honorary) knighthood."

He didn't need his father's actions. As an Irish citizen born before 1949 (when Ireland became a republic and ceded from the Commonwealth, he was entitled to take out British citizenship in his own right at any time. Ireland before 1949 counted as one of the King's dominions, as the King reigned as King of Ireland under the External Relations Act. As a result British citizenship was there for anyone born up to the point Ireland ceased to be one of His Majesty's dominions. It is why so many Irish people born before 1949 had full knighthoods, but those born after 1949, like Bob Geldof, born in 1951 could only have honorary knighthoods. It dated back to the 1921 Treaty where Britain thought all Irish people were British subjects but to the fury of the British the new Irish Free State created its own citizenship.

The media endlessly misunderstands this, so pretty much anyone born in Ireland pre-1949 gets a knighthood is talked of as having to apply for British citizenship like any other non-Briton. They don't realise they had a presumed right to it automatically if born before the Republic of Ireland came into being via virtue of the "common citizenship" mentioned in the Treaty and the 1922 constitution. FearÉIREANN \(caint) 17:53, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Taking titles of honour or nobility is prohibited for Irish citizens, it's even in the constitution. Hence, Bob Geldof taking an 'honorary' knighthood (i.e. not a knighthood, just as an honorary degree isn't a qualification). The prohibition still stands if a person has another nationality, as Mr Gambon did. There is a discussion to be had if taking a title is a denunciation of Irish citizenship if he didn't seek and receive the Government of Ireland's permission. 86.40.18.105 (talk) 11:54, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Not separated from wife
Although Gambon separated for a short while they reamined married and reconciled. In the years leading up to his death he shared his time between his home with Anne Miller and a separate residence with his mistress Phillipa Hart and their two young children. Anne was also by his bedside at the time of his death along with his eldest son whom he shares with her 92.40.215.38 (talk) 20:05, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I act as his publicist. He was not separated from his wife at the time of his death. Please rectify 2A02:C7C:5C09:C700:4035:9D32:81D7:65EA (talk) 00:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * After 2002 Michael and Anne remained married and had since reconciled, he moved back into the family home.
 * As states in The Guardian, Independent, NY Times and many others, Anne and their son Fergus were at his bedside when he died. Geoffrey.poltergeist (talk) 12:15, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Been reading lots of articles, he was clearly never separated from his wife and they were together until his passing. 185.61.88.52 (talk) 12:21, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Movie Credit
He also appeared in the 1999 film Sleepy Hollow 104.136.231.178 (talk) 12:42, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * A nice role. I'm fairly surprised there's no filmography page considering the length of his career.Halbared (talk) 12:45, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Movie honour
Michael Gambon voice acted as Badger in The Willows In Winter in 1996 2A00:23C7:698B:A501:3C15:A3D9:1876:2B35 (talk) 22:00, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Irish-English
Nowhere can I find a definition for this bizarre term, which seems to be exclusive to Wikipedia. England is a single country in the UK. If we're talking about citizenship, a more appropriate definition is Irish-British, or British-Irish, depending on how one wants to prioritise it. Since he was born in Dublin and generally travelled under an Irish passport, I would suggest the former. 109.145.66.215 (talk) 18:51, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * "Bizarre"? I don't see what is so bizarre about it? SinoDevonian (talk) 00:22, 29 September 2023 (UTC) SinoDevonian (talk) 00:22, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That a citizenship is being combinded with a subnation. Not proper reason to do this. Just keet this simple. The prose already states he held British citizenship. Tvx1 02:43, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * There is no blanket format for people from the home nations, a guide is to see where the person themselves identify, in Gambon's place he chooses both Irish and English. Others choose differently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Nationality_of_people_from_the_United_Kingdom#Guide_to_finding_UK_nationality Halbared (talk) 09:10, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Or Irish-British as it now reads. More appropriate - since he was born in Ireland and travelled with an Irish passport. 109.145.66.215 (talk) 06:39, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * There is a question over his Irish citizenship as titles of honour or nobility are prohibited for Irish citizens. Yes, Irish as in born in Ireland, but in a legal sense that could be up for debate. 86.40.18.105 (talk) 11:48, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * No. There is no "question mark" hanging over it. "Irish citizens with dual UK nationality can accept substantive British knighthoods by asking the Irish government for permission to do so. This is always granted."
 * Source: 'Irish Knights'. Wiki.
 * Geldof accepted a knighthood and I'm pretty sure he never bothered to take out UK citizenship, so I'm not even sure the dual citizenship thing applies anymore. Wogan, etc.
 * In any event, there is no "question mark" about Gambon's citizenship. Why would there be? He was born in Dublin. 109.145.66.215 (talk) 17:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Bob Geldof was given an honorary knighthood, being able to use the letters after the name. I had to look up Wogan. Terry acquired British citizenship in 2005, so he was able to style himself, 'Sir Terry.'Halbared (talk) 18:43, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I did say a substantive knighthood, since Geldof never took out UK citizenship. And what are we arguing about anyway? Gambon held both citizenships (like Wogan) so all he had to do was request permission of the Irish government to accept a knighthood (always granted).
 * imply accepting a
 * a knighthood didn't mean he didn't hold Irish citizenship. In fact, I watched him on a chat soow ine night making a point of the fact thatwas an Irish citizen hip and generally travelled under his Ireland passp As do many UK public figures: the journalist John Simpson, for example.ort. 109.145.66.215 (talk) 12:37, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, no argument here, Gambon was always clear on his love and pride of his identity. Maybe I misread the Geldof thing. I don't know if Gambon kept the Irish citizenship or not but I see it as moot since no-one is arguing against him being Irish, as he waxed lyrical on his Irish side in any interview where he was asked about it. Edit, I see someone queried the Irish citizenship, I feel this is not germane as Gambon was always prety clear on his status.Halbared (talk) 13:06, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I would prefer the term Anglo-Irish as it is much neater and less clumsy way of saying Irish-English. 79.97.142.107 (talk) 20:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Citizenship, Irish and or British, not other options exist de jure 85.94.241.84 (talk) 08:27, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Anglo-Irish is a completely different designation with quite different connotations which certainly wouldn't apply to Gambon. Protestant, landed gentry, Trinity College Dublin, etc, etc. It doesn't simply mean an Irish person who moved to England or vice versa. It was a distinct social class, now pretty much gone. 109.145.66.215 (talk) 12:28, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

1960–1979: Stage debut and National Theatre
Not sure how to put this. He is said to have written to the chap in Dublin ( Micheál Mac Liammóir) with a fictitious CV when 24 i.e. 1964 but appeared first on stage in Othello in 1962. Either this is the wrong way round chronologically, needs editing or is incorrect as far as it reads to me. Happy to be wrong. Juncus (talk) 18:58, 5 January 2024 (UTC)