Talk:Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award/Archive 1

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Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2019
"2019 : Lady Gaga" Florianepgy (talk) 21:55, 11 August 2019 (UTC)


 * ❌. Please provide a source for this information and enough detail to make a complete row for the table.  –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 01:17, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

17:40, 31 August 2020 (UTC)17:40, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 31 August 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Consensus to not move. (non-admin closure)  Vpab15 (talk) 09:51, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award → Video Vanguard Award – Per WP:COMMONNAME, "the term or name most typically used in reliable sources is generally preferred". A quick Google seach shows that "Video Vanguard Award" gets twice more results compared to "Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award". Besides more concice (WP:CONCISE), "Video Vanguard Award" is also the original and the latest official name used by MTV. Bluesatellite (talk) 05:37, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Support — I tend to support the RM and unless I'm missing something and despite Google shows personal search bias, we can see from many reliable sources since 2019 (including MTV itself) as was pointed out by Bluesatellite, that this award was renamed again to the original title: "Video Vanguard Award" which is also a WP:COMMONNAME. In our present year 2020, some sources shows again too this award was previosly called "Michael Jackson" (Vulture) or (NY Post) --Apoxyomenus (talk) 06:05, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose You are cannot rename an award that does not belong to you. This Award is MTV’s and they still call it the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award. The only reason why “Video Vanguard Award” is searched more is because it has less words. Lesser awards and abbreviations are known to be searched more. We learn that MTV has officially kept the name on the award via [Here] which says, “MTV has officially kept Jackson's name on the award. On Aug. 12, it announced that Missy Elliott was this year's recipient of the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award.” So if they didn’t change it, then we shouldn’t either. TruthGuardians (talk) 13:41, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose The official name of the award is "Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award". The abbreviations may be mentioned, but the article must be named after the full name of the award. The information published on this Aug. 2019 Business Standard article is false. It was never officially stated that "Michael Jackson" was removed from the name of the award. The abbreviation is also used, and some journalists falsely assumed the name "Michael Jackson" was removed. Here are a few more sources:, . Israell (talk) 17:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Per WP:OFFICIALNAME, Wikipedia doesn't go by official name or full name, but the most recognizable name. That's why it's the United States, not the "United States of America". Bluesatellite (talk) 23:09, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose There is no question that the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award existed, even if MTV had remained it officially now, and there is no proof of that by they way you can't just erase something from history which existed. MTV's own website still calls it Michael Jackson Video Vanguard. The award has not been given every year so fake news about the Tricon replacing it is just that speculation and fake knew. After 1991 numerous people got the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award not the Video Vanguard Award. Missy Elliot, the last recipient also named it as such. Over the years MTV often did not call it Micheal Jackson Video Vanguard just Vanguard award that didn't change the official name of the award.  The number of google results is irrelevant. There is no wiki policy that says google searches should be the basis of anything castorbailey (talk) 16:16, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Calm damn, nobody's trying to erase history. All the name variations throughout the year are fully explained in the article. It's MTV who removes his name. The news links you posted were written before the controversy blew up, and they eventually removed his name from the TV broadcast. Bluesatellite (talk) 23:09, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Do you have any evidence that this page called it Michael Jackson VVA before Aug 2019? MTV they kept the name in some places and didn't use it in the first place in others. They did not edit it out of Missy's speech, their YouTube channel's description of the acceptance speech video or this article  MTV didn't give this award for years and didn't mention Jackson's name for years between 2006 and 2011, still the name of the award did not change. Based on your logic it shouldn't have been called Michael Jackson VVA for a long time as MTV and the rest of the media regularly called it just Video Vanguard Award. A search for Video Vanguard and Michael Jackson Video Vanguard on MTV's website can show that castorbailey (talk) 10:56, 7 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose MTV's website where they announce Missy Elliot as the last recipient still names it Michael Jackson video vanguard. There has been no official announcement by MTV that the name changed. Vulture's or the NY Post's  opinion that it was previously name MJ VVA is just that opinion not proven fact.TwoShots30 (talk) 17:56, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose (for now). If MTV had presented the award this year and official promotional material/press releases didn't have "Michael Jackson" in the name, we'd have official confirmation of the name change.  But for now, I think we need to wait until the award is given out at least once more (at which point I'd have zero qualms supporting the move). Andresg770 (talk) 18:47, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Before this is closed, I also was wondering about the possibility of changing the title to MTV Video Music Award for Video Vanguard (if MTV makes the name change official, of course). It would make it parallel with other VMA articles -- though I don't think this format ("MTV Video Music Award for...") flows well with the MJ name... Andresg770 (talk) 21:18, 4 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose (for now). Google search of "Michael Jackson Vanguard Award", "MTV Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award", "Vanguard Award", "MTV Vanguard Award" also shows a similar amount of search results. WP:UCRN clearly states that When there is no single, obvious name that is demonstrably the most frequently used for the topic by these sources, editors should reach a consensus as to which title is best by considering these criteria directly."" I think using the current title is the best possible way, unless MTV directly make a statement that they withdraw Michael Jackson’s name from the award. They haven’t.- Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:13, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose No name change has been announced. The last time this award was given (in 2019) it was the "Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award".Salvabl (talk) 11:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.