Talk:Michael Lewis (arson victim)

Please keep this article which commemorates a life cut short by Australia's lax fire safety laws. There are few events that result in 15 arson deaths. The details of the arson event and its victims were given worldwide publicity because of the countries from where the victims originated. You can mention "Childers" to millions of people with sure recognition of the arson. I suggest that the TV and other media publicity across Europe, Korea and Japan (warning their inhabitants of the risks in Australia) satisfies Wikipedia's "notoriety" requirements.Duncanogi (talk) 13:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I really don't want to sound unsympathetic, but there is already a Childers Palace Backpackers Hostel fire‎ article, and that's the article that satisfies the TV and media-generated notoriety - it's the place, and its lax fire precautions, that attracted the notoriety, not the individual victims. That article lists the victims, and beyond that one event (painfully tragic though it was), they are not otherwise notable according to Wikipedia criteria for having individual biographical articles. Wikipedia isn't a memorial site - there are plenty of other ways to commemorate lost young lives on the Web. -- Boing!   said Zebedee  16:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I do appreciate your comment but please do consider "Wikipedia notoriety": Michael Lewis and the other UK youngsters were prominent in practically every local and national newspaper and on every TV channel in the UK. Such notoriety is definitely adequate for Wikipedia. Many, many families in the UK have children who visit Australia for a "gap" year or otherwise: for instance both my British-born, Hong Kong—based children are in Australia in 2 weeks time — this is why the media prominently exposed the risks by highlighting the human stories.Duncanogi (talk) 07:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It's still only one event - see WP:ONEVENT -- Boing!   said Zebedee  08:05, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Boing! said Zebedee in that it a case of WP:ONEVENT and the appropriate place for this is in the Childers Palace Backpackers Hostel fire‎ article, there is nothing to say that in that page there cant be a short Bio on Michael Lewis. I would like to add with all due respect that WP is not a soapbox to be used to champion a cause. Codf1977 (talk) 09:35, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * PS: You should add your comments at Articles for deletion/Michael Lewis (arson victim) - I would have said so earlier but I hadn't realised you hadn't, sorry -- Boing!   said Zebedee  08:55, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * A note that I, the nominator, am British. The article creator's arguments are somewhat undermined (from my point of view) by the fact that I've never bloody heard of Lewis. Ironholds (talk) 10:32, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I respect all your comments, but: "I've never bloody heard of Lewis" - please keep your language acceptable about someone murdered. You probably cannot remember him because he was murdered horrifically ten years ago. Notoriety is partly determined by the extent of media exposure: Lewis was in practically every UK newspaper and on every TV channel with the other few UK arson deaths. His life before his death may not have been noteworthy but his death was notorious in Wikipedia terms.Duncanogi (talk) 07:41, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It was the hostel and the fire that gained notoriety, not Michael Lewis, and that's covered by the Childers Palace Backpackers Hostel fire‎ article. Yes, Michael's death is notable, but it is already covered in that article. -- Boing!   said Zebedee  08:22, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Please Duncanogi you are/were clearly affected by Michael's death but I think you are to involved in it to probably understand the AfD process. It is not any reflection on the death of Michael, but how best that should be represented in this Encyclopaedia. There are policies and guidelines that have been crafted over many years to deal with this sort of situation, and it is clear from the comments at the AfD that, tragic as it was, the best way to record it is in the Childers Palace Backpackers Hostel fire‎ article. Your input along with every other editor is valued and as I said before, I don't think it would be inappropriate for there to be a small biog section on Michael in that article and if (as it looks like it) the result of the AfD is redirect then anyone looking for "Michael Lewis" in WP will be taken to that article. I find myself once again I find my self agreeing with Boing! said Zebedee, in that it was the fire gained notoriety, not Michael Lewis - If I had been asked, I would have instant recall on the major facts (location, deaths and trial) of the fire but not on the names of the victims. Codf1977 (talk) 09:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)