Talk:Michael Phelps/Archive 1

Picture!
Will somebody please find a picture of Michael Phelps?

Gold Medal Records
Phelps winning 4 individual gold medals doesn't tie Mark Spitz's record of 7, unless this means Phelps tied Mark Spitz's individual golds. I'm going to fix this for now, if I'm wrong in my assumption, please fix. Jrssr5 14:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Tables
3 inconsistent table styles. all ugly.
 * Maybe not to that degree, but I agree...could someone please fix these so that they are atleast similar? --Jared 21:52, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Done.--Esprit15d 19:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Sentence
That sentence on Tom Stone appears to be a hack job. Did Phelps *really* want that mention in? If so, it could have been organized better.

Article removed from Good articles
This article was formerly listed as a good article, but was removed from the listing because there is no references section. Worldtraveller 23:50, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Religious beliefs
Does anyone know what Michael Phelps spiritual beliefs are? Jlaforteza 06:25, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't and I don't think it should be in the article, because it is not relevant to his public life, which is swimming, unless he is a religious advocate of some kind.`Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 01:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I just wanna know for my personal knowledge. Jlaforteza 05:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Drunk Driving...
I can't believe Michael did such a crime! He was my honest idol, but now I'm not so sure. If you read this Michael, just know that now many of your fans will not believe in you as much now that you have a Criminal Record. Meldshal42 21:13, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you serious? He made a mistake.  In no way does this tarnish his character. Jrssr5 12:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it was only a silly mistake. Michael Phelps is also my idol. Is not important for me than he did it.

While demanding references for potentially libelous biographical information is a noble goal, it seems counterproductive to me to just remove material when a simple google search can provide a reference in about the same amount of time.


 * Is it me or does the article give undue weight to his DUI? Seems excessive. MahangaTalk to me 15:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree... shouldn't the DUI section be removed? It seems strange to have an entire section devoted to a single driving incident, and it is not relevant to the reason he is listed in an encyclopedia - which is his swimming. Posting this sort of thing makes Wikipedia seem more like a gossip site than an encyclopedia. If you look up other sports figures in "regular encyclopedias", you do not get a rap sheet. Gacggt 20:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think the DUI section should have been removed. It was a highly publicized event. Kolindigo 19:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

If someone were writing a 300 page biography, such an event migh get a paragraph. To devote a section here, taking about 15% of the space, really does seem to blow such an event out of proportion. The individual has spent more than ten years garnerning swimming records; to have an entire section given to a single event like the DUI really does seem disproportionate - it gives one a scewed view of the person, which is the opposite of the goal of an encyclopedia entry. So for these reasons I agree with the removal of the DUI section. People who want that sort of thing should start a Gossipedia. Gacggt 12:55, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

nearly every celebrity article has a controversy section. these controversies range from homophobic/racist remarks or drug use. If size length is a problem, then shorten it. Don't act like it never happened. if you do so, you should go to every celebrity page and remove controversies. Not a good precedent. Binks 21:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, let's take your example. For a celebrity like Robert Downey, Jr., his arrests and drug use almost cost him his life. They're quite material to the story of his "personal life" and they effected his professional life. In contrast, with Michael Phelps, there was a single incidence of a DUI - and it took up about a third of the space devoted to his personal life (since there is not much there); also there is no evidence that this is diagnostic of a problem he has. Last point: if you glance at this talk page, you'll see no shortage of libelous remarks casually thrown about - while the DUI actually happened, the overall picture one gets are of people with bad intent who just want to throw a little dirt on the page. The concern is to give an accurate picture of an individual - thus if even a true event gives an incorrect portrait (i.e., Michael Phelps has a drinking problem when he does not); that should be taken into account. Gacggt 22:23, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

just because it is a blemish on his reputation and disappoints people who idolise him, does not mean it should be ignored. this is an encyclopedia not a fan page. A criminal record is a criminal record. If you take my example of lleyton hewitt, there is a much longer part about his black linesman remark. under your logic, this could give an inaccurate picture of hewitt being genuinely racist (although there's a good chance he is). Anyway, who are you to say he does not have a drinking problem? This is an encyclopedia, we work with the facts (he got charged with many crimes) not the speculation (it being only a one off). FInally, if you are so concerned about it taking up a lot of his personal life percentage-wise, make the rest longer. Binks 08:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I looked at the Lleyton Hewitt page (your example); as documented, there are multiple incidents, all adding up to a coherent picture of him. That is not the case here. This is not some idolizing fan who has some need to whitewash a person; I  invest a lot of  time in Wikipedia, and would like it to be better. This imay be a more subtle case than usual - but it's worth talking about, and your example proves the opposite of the point you were trying to make. Gacggt 14:15, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

there is only one incident of racism. the other incidents may be controversies but otherwise unrelated. The point is you can't take out facts just because it makes him look bad. If you need further examples, Wendell Sailor has this huge section making up a third of the WHOLE ARTICLE, not just the personal section, about being caught for taking cocaine. Like phelps, it may have been a one-off and was unlucky to be caught, just as phelps could have drank (and driven) frequently while he was under 21. Wikipedia reports known facts, not speculation. You can't remove facts in favour of speculation Binks 21:34, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Reading more into the article, I don't think his drunk driving incident is notable at all. As Gacggt has said, this was a minor event and no one, when thinking of Michael Phelps, will remember his DUI. The inclusion of his DUI is a plain case of recentism. Look at some of the things removed from Barack Obama. We should be as sensible as they are there. I've posted now at Request for Comment. MahangaTalk 21:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Phelps has a criminal record, he was charged and sentenced. Many, many celebrities have a controversies section, i don't see why phelps is any different. This is only three sentences. If you look at marion jones, there is a huge section on her alleged drug use, but she has never been found guilty (phelps on the other hand has) yet the section is so long. Or if you look at martina hingis, there is a substantial section about her comments (including remarks about her doubles partner being "old and slow"). Do you think when she retires, anyone will remember that? These are just comments and they take up so much room, phelps actually has a criminal record. Binks 12:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

If anything, he deserves a bigger section on his DUI. I went to highschool with the guy and he REALLY let the whole "I was in the Olympics" thing go to his head. He would do things like throw food at people from across the cafeteria or take peoples' things and then use his celebrity status to avoid any blame for it. I know I can't back any of that up, but it's all more or less common knowledge around the Towson area. Willickers! 00:09, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Per the two comments above, first off, yes, other articles do have big sections on controversy arising around the noted person, however, that does not necessarily mean that that is how every article should be. Think of it this way, he is known for his swimming. If he was a normal person with a DUI, chances are he would not have an article on Wikipedia. He is not famous for the DUI, but rather for his swimming. Second, the article is not to show how much of a jerk one thinks he is, regardless of if he was conceded or not. His ego is not means for giving him a bigger section on his DUI. Respectfully, --wpktsfs 22:24, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

The only reason I said that at the front was that i thought that the whole DUI section was a little too descriptive. I"m sorry, I apologize to anyone offended. Sincerely,  Meldshal  42  16:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

In Phelps' home country (the United States) swimmers are generally not celebrities in the way that American football, basketball, and baseball players are. He is virtually the only recognizable figure from the swimming community; perhaps only Amanda Beard for her physical attractiveness and among the older generations Mark Spitz are remembered for swimming. At the time of his arrest he was basically the only "superstar", and the only representative of swimming as a part of popular culture. His social influence is understated in this article. The significance of his drunk driving is one of the few incidents in swimming history that will be remembered in the general American population (mostly non-swimmming-fans). It is moderately disturbing to see comments like "I can't believe Michael did such a crime!" and "In no way does this tarnish his character. " The seriousness of the act of drunk driving is considerable, especially when noting his age and the presence of passengers in his vehicle. Perhaps Americans don't take drunk driving seriously, but when the only person from a sport that people know about is caught drunk underage and driving, it seems notable in spite of his major accomplishments as an athlete. In other sports and among actors this sort of behaviour is normalized and reaction is mellowed by the desensitization from frequency. If an American baseball player does this, or other illegal/immoral things then it appears in the news for a few days until the next player is found with something. Actors are constantly followed by media and substance abuse and criminal conduct seem to have become intertwined with the notion of Hollywood. But in swimming the was only him. If you ask people about actors, musicians, professional athletes that have been caught drunk driving, there could be a long list of Americans that have done this. In the context of all sports his incident is certainly not the worst (OJ Simpson), but he is basically the only famous swimmer to Americans. And even within the world of swimming, he stands out as having been a drunk driver. I'm sure we can google drunk swimmers and find others who have been caught, but no one as famous in the sport as him. Anecdotally I watch the show with Jay Leno (a very mainstream and popular television show) and have for many years. The only time I can remember a swimmer being included in the opening monologue/sketch was when Michael Phelps was arrested. It is hereby proposed that the section detailing the incident be reinstated.--Swimmtastic (talk) 21:01, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure I follow what needs to be "reinstated". This is an old thread from last year. For some time now, the article has included a couple of sentences detailing the DUI arrest and sentence, which seems about right and not WP:UNDUE. Because there doesn't seem to be any edit war over this nowadays, I've removed the tag.  JGHowes talk  -  14:00, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Doping?
3 WRs in 3 day?! and nothing about it in the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.2.93.168 (talk) 16:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

Neutrality?
Why does this article say "Unfortunately, his [relay team only got bronze" or "Unfortunately, [he only placed for bronze in the 200 m freestyle]" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.151.13.8 (talk) 17:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

I agree. I edited the term. Gacggt 13:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

fix the page
Someone screwed with the page putting in all this crap about sailing and playing with Phelp's age. I don't have the time to fix it myself, but someone should. I would report it to wikipedia but I don't know how. Help me out here? Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marcman411 (talk • contribs) 20:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

REMOVE EDITTING
I just spent about 45 minutes fixing the page only for it to all revert back to sailing and dumb jokes. Please fix it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marcman411 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

World Records Overview
i think it would be interestimg to get an overview of all world records he has set, may be 22 or something right now. does anyone have a table or list of them?

Webbed feet?!
Can we cite or remove the claim that Mr. Phelps has "slightly webbed feet"? --Legomancer (talk) 18:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

fix table
can someone fix the table, it's a bit wonked. 71.164.134.119 (talk) 04:49, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Olympic gold medalists
I can't seem to edit the page even though I am logged in. How do I do it? I would like to ad that he is number 13 on the list of Olympic gold medalists could someone do it for me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clmw (talk • contribs) 15:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC) I can't edit the page either, as I'm a newly-registered user. Could someone spell out the word "eight" rather than using the numeral 8? Thanks Bro rick (talk) 04:46, 17 August 2008 (UTC)Rick

(AR)
In the table section detailing his achievements the term (AR) is used, what does it mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.140.208 (talk) 06:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

American Record, right? I'll add a key below the tables. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.140.208 (talk) 06:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Fred Phelps (father)
I've added a short note to the article stating that Michael Phelps' father, Fred Phelps, is not related to the hate-monger from Kansas who protests against gays and at the funerals of service members. Fred Phelps of KANSAS is such a reviled figure that I thought it important to clarify that we are not talking about the same person. Michaelh2001 (talk) 18:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

ADHD
There's an interesting article in today's NY Times about Phelps' ADHD issues in school, etc. 72.192.143.30 (talk) 07:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

200 Free Record Time
According to nbc (website and broadcast) the time is 1:42.96, not 1:42.93 as listed under "currently held records", "world records" below it is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.97.27 (talk) 02:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

4 X 100 freestyle relay
In the "2008 Beijing Summer Olympic Games" section of this article is the statement, "Phelps swam the 1st leg of the men's 4x100m freestyle relay in a time of 47.51 seconds (an American record for the 100m freestyle)..." This is repeated in the Currently Held Records table and Best Times and All-Time Event Rankings table. But how could this be an American record when teammates Jason Lezak and Garrett Weber-Gale had times of 46:06 and 47:02, respectively? Information on both the Swimming at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 4 x 100 metre freestyle relay and Jason Lezak pages seem to contradict this statement. I think the answer to my question might be that only the first leg of the relay counts as a record. Is that the correct explanation, or is there an error on these pages? Redhookesb (talk) 06:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, only the first legs of relays can be counted for records in their corresponding individual events because the later guys are not doing a stationary start, whereas the first guy is doing it in a stationary start as they would in a normal individual race.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 08:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

All-time Olympic Games individual medal count
We have All-time Olympic Games medal count. Given all the talk about Michael Phelps tying others in individual medal count, any chance in someone creating the article all-time Olympic Games individual medal count? Suntag (talk) 08:03, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See Olympic Games. Suntag (talk) 08:16, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I added the gold medal count info to the Michael Phelps article. Suntag (talk) 08:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Slightly Incorrect Date for 4x4 100M Relay
Under the section "2008 Beijing Summer Olympic Games" the final sentence of the 3rd paragraph reads "The top five teams in the final finished ahead of the world record of 3:12.23 set earlier in the day by the American B team in a preliminary heat."

Though it may be correct in some areas of the world, in the location of the event - China - the preliminary heat was ran the previous day. In Beijing all of the preliminary heats for swimming are scheduled for the evening sessions with the finals sessions being held the following morning. While it appears to be the same day for people who may live in the states, official record should show those races were actually held the previous day. Therefore instead of saying "earlier in the day," it would be more accurate to say "the previous evening" or even "15 1/2 hours earlier" for emphasis on the relatively short length of time between the two swims.

Here is a link to an article that references the local times of the swimming heats/finals.

http://swimming.about.com/od/olympicswimming/qt/oly08swimevents.htm

Brett —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcvaldez (talk • contribs) 19:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Error in overview?
Michael Fred Phelps (born June 30, 1985 in Baltimore, Maryland) is an American swimmer who holds world records in several events. Phelps has won thirteen medals overall, eight (six gold, two bronze) at the 2004 Summer Olympics in and five (all gold) at the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games,[2] which broke the record for the most medals obtained in a single Olympics, a record previously set by Alexander Dityatin in 1980.[3] Phelps' international titles, along with his various world records, have resulted in him being named World Swimmer of the Year in 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007 and American Swimmer of the Year in those years and in 2001 and 2002.

Phelps has qualified to compete in eight swimming events at the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, and beat Mark Spitz's record of seven gold medals at one Olympics. And as of August 16, 2008, Phelps has won eight gold medals in Beijing, all in world record time, giving him 11 career Olympic golds, more than any athlete in history.

Shouldn't the passage in bold be "which broke the record for the most gold medals obtained by a single athlete?" Somebody with an account please correct this.--76.117.61.1 (talk) 04:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, Spitz had seven golds, and no silver or bronze. I'll have to check if they mean most total medals.. sounds like they are counting all 8 medals.. but that wouldn't break Dityatin's record (spitz had seven, so Dityatin had to have at least 8). Let me look at this.. SirFozzie (talk) 04:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it was equalled and the Russian gymnast got 8 total also. It defeintely means the total.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 04:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They mean total medals, the reference (ESPN) states that after his 11th medal overall he became the "most decorated Olympic athlete". I've fixed the text. --  At am a chat 04:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it wasn't the total amount of medals, a Russian female gymnast has 18 medals, but most medals of any type in one Olympics. SirFozzie (talk) 04:30, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * SirFozzie, what's your source for that? That completely contradicts what ESPN is saying, it states that his 11th medal overall makes him the most decorate Olympic athlete ever. --  At am a chat 04:34, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Never mind, you may be right. ESPN was also counting Phelps' 5 world records that he broke at Beijing so far. I changed it to state that ESPN named him "most decorated" and left it at that. --  At am a chat 04:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Works for me :).. Just for future reference, the gymnast in question is Larissa Latynina SirFozzie (talk) 04:42, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Also: Phelps has tied (but not broken) the record for most individual (not team) gold medals in single Olympics. The record is five, originally set in the winter of 1980 by speedskater Eric Heiden. Phelps now also has five individual gold medals from a single Olympics, in the summer of 2008.

DUI
Wasn't Phelps charged with a DUI? Should this be mentioned? I don't care either way, I just thought it might be important.ShinyWatchGuy (talk) 04:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's already mentioned in the Early Life section. SirFozzie (talk) 04:52, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's actually in the Personal Life section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.28.155.226 (talk) 06:20, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Number of Golds at Beijing Olympics
The article says that as of Aug. 13, he's got 6 golds and world records, but I only count 5 so far, what's up?--Rweiss4 (talk) 05:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Where does it say that? SirFozzie (talk) 05:49, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ah, I see it was fixed. Never mind. SirFozzie (talk) 05:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

athlete (?)
I would think a swimmer is not an athlete. athlete refers only to track and field events. Can anyone correct this? Thanks 193.28.155.226 (talk) 06:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Source that "athlete" refers only to track & field pls? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.146.16.131 (talk) 06:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Athlete can be used in a general sense to mean sportsperson or in a more specific sense to mean track and field athlete, so I think its use here is OK. --Pawnkingthree (talk) 08:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for both replies. I stand corrected. However, looking at http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/athletics I was surprised to see the definition "1 : exercises, sports, or games engaged in by athletes". So not only an athlete is a sportsperson, Athletics is sports in general. This is new to me (and a bit off-topic). Thanks 89.1.60.252 (talk) 18:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

changing references to cite web/news
Would anyone object to all of the related references being changed to cite web or cite news?--Rockfang (talk) 09:03, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't object, but yoou won't see me doing it, I'm horrible at templates :) SirFozzie (talk) 09:06, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll do it myself. :)  I just wanted to get consensus first. :) Rockfang (talk) 09:09, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

National Titles
I'm a bit confused about Phelps's national titles. The article says 38 titles plus 5 won in relays. On his USA Swimming profile are only listed 34 singles titles. I recognize that the titles won in the 2007 summer nationals competing in the 200 m freestyle, 200 m backstroke and 100 m butterfly are definitely missing in the profile, which would make it 37. The 38th single title would be the 50 m freestyle title listed in the article. I remember that this one appeared in the USA Swimming profile a few months ago but now it's off...and SCN meaning achieved in the short course nationals? I did not find any results varifying this. Another point being his 4th 100 m freesytle title, listed as won at '07 WIN: does this mean winter nationals? Never heard about something like that. And the last thing being the yard national titles listed in the article. They are not listed in the profile but these results appear in the profile on the right hand side as results in 2007 as "SCY nats". Do they count as proper national titles? Does anyone know about these facts? --FeinerMax (talk) 14:50, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

U.S. national titles - SCYN
I have searched for SCYN on Wikipedia - only this article contains any incidence of the word. I Googled SCYN - no luck in finding a swimming/sport link. What could it mean? I found out that SCN means SC Nationals but the disambig article SCN on Wikipedia doesn't list this. I think I tracked down SC from this Wikipedia article FINA World Championships - Short Course. There should definitely be a Key - as was done for AR (see on this discussion page). The Key should cover SPG and SUM and WIN - presumably spring, summer and winter - however obvious it may seem to those in the know. Also, what is the difference between AR and US? You can see the considerable amount of work necessary to track down the meaning of these short forms and as Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and U.S. swimming and Michael Phelps have garnered world attention it would be a good thing to fill in the blanks for the lay man. More wikilinks would be nice too. Thanks somebody. --User:Brenont (talk) 17:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * To the AR/US topic: AR (American Record) is the fastest time set by an American (US) citizen anywhere in the world, and US/USO (US Open Record) is the fastest time set by anyone within the geographical territory of the US. --FeinerMax (talk) 21:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah! - I see the section above has information that tells me SCYN is short for Short Course Yard National - is that so? Whoever puts a key together should reference all the terms used in the U.S. national titles section as there are no wikilinks (yet). --User:Brenont (talk) 17:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Zodiac?!
What the hell was that?!, and why that revision is nowhere to be found?! It really shocked me —Preceding unsigned comment added by Naktion (talk • contribs) 01:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This is the longest I've ever seen vandalism stay up. 72.215.137.31 (talk) 04:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

He vandalizes like this all the time on different pages... but I'm surprised to see it up this long too.


 * It was already gone from the history by the time I found it. But it was still weirdMech Aaron (talk) 04:07, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * His vandalism is weird... I don't understand how it works, but by simply deleting things from the article and then reinserting them back in, verbatim, it disappears. He must be exploiting some odd bugs. -Chinju (talk) 04:07, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * What the hell was that?!?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.61.12 (talk) 04:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good job with reverting it. You know, if I were to vandalize a page, I wouldn't put something as stupid as "you cannot run from me for I am above mortal things." It's just nonsensical. 72.215.137.31 (talk) 04:12, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

wtf?
 * It was template vandalism. It wasn't actually caused or fixed by edits to the article itself. --Onorem♠Dil 04:14, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I've realized that now. Ah well; there goes my feeling special. Just coincidental timing with my do-nothing edit and the fix of the template. (Which has happened previously with The Zodiac, thus bolstering my confidence in my Fonz-like skills...) Incidentally, what template was affected? -Chinju (talk) 04:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Template:United States elections, 2008, Template:Querylink, Template:USLargestCities, Template:Infobox Swimmer, Template:Vgy, and Template:-w were all hit by the same IP. Not sure if there were any others. --Onorem♠Dil 12:32, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

2004 Athens 4 x 100 medley
The article lists the winning team's time and world record as if Phelps had something to do with it, while in fact he didn't swim the finals. He swam in the preliminaries and on account of that he was given the gold medal, but since he didn't take part in the final race, that's one world record that shouldn't be accredited to him. Timbouctou (talk) 22:24, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Wiki Sucks
This is proof of how inaccurate wikipedia can be, someone has locked vandalism onto this page so tht it reads that he is a nigga. Amusing though
 * While you are entitled to your opinion, this page is for suggestions to improve the article. Not complain about its current state.  Black  ngold29   23:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Somebody is vandalizing the page right now. Ulaire (talk) 04:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Nicknames
as far as nicknames go this article is embarrassing, Where is the Human fish, golden fish, flying fish, and the American super fish, among others? wiki should be ashamed for this mess of an article. ~Anonymous *and there I signed the post* —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.137.208.196 (talk • contribs)
 * Provide reliable sources that verify that these are regular nicknames, and I don't see why more can't be added to the article. --Onorem♠Dil 16:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The article is only as good as the contributions made to it. Perhaps you should try contributing?  Jauerbackdude?/dude. 16:18, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I did some legwork for you. Here's a source.  Jauerbackdude?/dude. 16:21, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

The Phelpeedo!!
Not sure who took my nickname for Phelps off his page but - The Phelpeedo - needs to be put back up! Please and Thank You! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laylen (talk • contribs) 18:44, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have a reliable source for that?  JGHowes talk  -  18:55, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, now that you put me on the spot...I have to admit, we (myself and a couple friends) are accomplished nicknamers! And I think "The Phelpeedo" is right up there with the best of we've come up with. I am sad to say I am not at the Olympics this year...but if I were you could bet I'd be representing with a sign for The Phelpeedo! Laylen (talk) 18:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)Laylen


 * Personal research, anecdotes, opinions, etc don't belong in Wikipedia. Sorry WildWikiGuy (talk) 17:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Dude, Phelps himself would approve of that nickname if he wasn't so busy winning gold! I know this because he is wearing a Speedo. Granted "The Phelpeedo" is actually comparing Phelps with a torpedo...I am pretty sure others would see the suttle brand placement as well! +++ Mad endorsement! 14:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Too recently done and far better matched was Thorpedo for this to catch on in my opinion...
 * In any case, unless it's something that gets covered in multiple reliable sources, it's not going to belong in the article. --Onorem♠Dil 14:42, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I am absolutely ashamed that people are not generally aware of "The Phelpeedo" nickname. To think we even call this a page dedicated to Michael Phelps! 14:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Look, right now the nickname is WP:OR, becuase it has no sources. Also, a quick gooogle search provides one result.  RC-0722 361.0/ 1  14:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a blog or the place to coin a new nickname. It is an encyclopedia of previously published material only. That is, if this nickname were stated in Time magazine or Sports Illustrated, for example, then and only then could it be included in Wikipedia.  JGHowes talk  -  15:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

EXACTLY!! Wikipedia is SERIOUS business. Seriously. I mean really. You should bow when you say Wikipedia and respect its authoriTAY!! Get over yourselves you self important dweebs. Wikipedia is a JOKE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.69.81.2 (talk) 18:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't feed the troll. --Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 18:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

His title is Aquaman not the phelpedo. (Teh Moparman) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.113.142 (talk) 02:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

During an NBC highlight reel of Phelps, an announcer with a British accent dubbed Phelps "The Baltimore Bullet" which is the second time I've heard him referred to in that manner. Also, the commentators on NBC frequently refer to him as "Superman". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.130.136.206 (talk) 15:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Error on "2004-2008" section
In the "2004-2008" section, the table showing Phelps' medals at the 2007 World Championships is incorrect. In particular, the final row (showing "Disqualified" for the 4x100m medley relay) is incorrect. Phelps did not swim in that relay team (which was disqualified because the butterfly swimmer -- Ian Crocker -- left the platform 1/100th of a second too early). Rather, this team was Lochte, Usher, Crocker and Walker.

This link is to the official summary for this race; the USA team is shown on page 4.

Deichmans (talk) 23:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This is correct, but Phelps would have competed in the final. The disqualification took place in the preliminaries. As Phelps was planned for the team, the information is not really incorrect. --FeinerMax (talk) 05:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd argue that the row be removed entirely. He himself was not disqualified; in fact, he apparently did not even compete. 76.15.12.46 (talk) 02:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Nickname for Fans of Michael Phelps
Avid fans of swimmer Michael Phelps often refer to themselves as a "Phelpsaphile". envisionfilmvideo —Preceding undated comment was added at 15:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have a Reliable source?  Black  ngold29   15:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Um, avid fans of swimmer Michael Phelps often refer to themselves as "Phelps Phans". My reference is the NBC coverage of the t-shirt craze and the TV commercial. So yeah! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.212.114.226 (talk) 03:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

4x100 Medley issue
Someone had taken out the 4x100m event from the 2008 Olympic section, stating that he was not in the official start list. The reason for that is that usually, different swimmers swim the qualifying heats, to save their top guys from having to swim another race. That's what happened previous events in these Olympics. Unless we have something that say he's definitively not going to swim AT ALL, we should leave it in, because he's QUALIFIED to swim in that event. SirFozzie (talk) 23:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, every news report I've watched has him going for 8 medals and that would be the 8th race.  Black  ngold29   23:26, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's now been confirmed on NBC that he WILL swim the final, so that settles that. SirFozzie (talk) 03:06, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Public and TV appearances...
Would it be worth it to add a section for things like that goofy cellphone commercial Michael Phelps (indirectly) appears in, and for other non-sports-related appearances? --Nomad Of Norad (talk) 01:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I would think so, he's done a few commercials. Anyone remember the one for the '04 games where he swam from (I think) England to the Statue of Liberty, counts "1", and then started to head back? Joe D (talk) 03:05, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Review for the 100M Fly final.
It should me mentioned that the coach for the Silver Medal winner filed an official protest over the closeness of the result. The protest was denied. But it should be noted in the article. 24.215.217.241 (talk) 02:56, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Why should that be noted? The timing dispute was thrown out by the officials after review.  Big deal.  That isn't something about the man Michael Phelps. 65.212.114.226 (talk) 03:12, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It should be added that the protest was denied only after FINA reviewed the video at one frame for every 10-thousandth of a second. At this speed, FINA referee Ben Ekumbo of Kenya says it is clear Phelps won. http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/swimming/news/story?id=3537831 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.123.181 (talk) 04:56, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Source consolidation
Anyone know of a reliable source that lists all of his Olympic times? It seems like a waste to have a separate source for each one. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 13:48, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Another oversight?
The article says Phelps has a 12000 kcal diet. This should be 12000 calories (not kcal). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.138.208.145 (talk) 14:22, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Dude, 1000 cal = 1 kcal = 1 Cal (food calorie, with capital "C"). He consumes 12,000 food calories. Which is the equivalent of 12*10^6 cal, or 12,000 kcal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.253.180.127 (talk) 17:07, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Body shape
Phelps's body shape is contributing to his success: long arm reach, and a proportionally large upper body. This could be mentioned in the article. Another olympic recordholder Pieter van den Hoogenband has a similar build. --VanBurenen (talk) 07:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Find a source that also says that and it should be no problem. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A picture of Phelps at a poolside would already be helpful. Maybe take a picture when they show him on TV. There should be plenty of opportunities. --VanBurenen (talk) 15:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not quite. That doesn't demonstrate why his body shape contributes to his success nor does it constitute as a reliable source, and would probably be a copyright violation to boot.  Jauerbackdude?/dude. 15:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gFplrVkFHMmZVeqU2EsPWGSytXNgD92GR8RG3 ("his body — perfectly suited for swimming with its long torso, large wingspan and big, flexible feet — re-emerged from the water.") 65.216.235.42 (talk) 20:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Another source for you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/olympics/2008/08/can_anyone_spoil_phelps_pool_p.html Not sure if that helps.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.40.46.101 (talk) 15:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Unsure if it can be used as a source, but at one point NBC did an analysis of why his body was perfectly suited for swimming... if you're still looking, you might try and find a video of that or a text version. Sorator (talk) 04:02, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

USOC Drug Supertesting group
I have seen in an number of articles references to a small group of olympic athletes who voluntarily are part of a 'supertest' group that gets tested multiple times a week for a wider range of drugs. His participation in this group would be of interest to the article, if more information can be found on it.

The new drug-testing program, which is being administered by USADA, involving the 12 prominent athletes was created with the hope of escaping the cat-and-mouse cycle. It doesn't attempt to identify performance-enhancing drugs per se. Rather, it requires that the athletes submit to frequent blood and urine testing to establish personal norms in more than a dozen hormonal categories. If those numbers stay constant, it's compelling -- but not definitive -- evidence that no doping is taking place. If the numbers fluctuate, it could indicate, or at least raise suspicion, that an athlete is using drugs.



--24.130.39.186 (talk) 01:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you are suggesting that this be added to the article, I would agree. I'm sure we could find more sources.  Black  ngold29   01:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Couldn't they just "stay doped" throughout the study? Just asking. And why should it be added to this article in particular? --SVTCobra (talk) 01:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you mean "stay doped"? That's what they're testing for. And I think it should be added (only a sentence or two nothing major) because with all the steroid controversey in athletics today, some people will accuse the man of cheating. Therefore in the intrest of NPOV we should present his effort to "clear his name" from these accusations.  Black  ngold29   06:02, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * He means that where the article states "blood and urine testing to establish personal norms" it is not illogical, according to that particular phrase, that an athlete could stay on a perticular drug(s) in order to establish a "personal norm". The test probably accounts for this in some way, but that is not addressed in that bit of the article.204.17.31.126 (talk) 00:17, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You are all speculating as to how both these tests work, and some hypothetical drugs could affect it. hard facts please. --24.130.39.186 (talk) 13:00, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Work outs and Nutrition
Would it be relevant, given appropriate sources of information, to include the extreme amounts/level of training and caloric intake that Phelps has undergone? Rally Chipmunkey (talk) 20:31, 15 August 2008 (UTC) I think Phelps is taking in way to many calories/carbs.I mean he's just gonna get himself killed doing that.My breakfast is just 2 pancakes.His breakfast is 3 sandwiches with bacon,eggs,and ham and then he has a omelet and then 4 scrambled eggs.9:20,15 August 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.4.103.41 (talk) What do you know??? You have never raced in 8 olympic races and won every oneJakeH07 (talk) 04:07, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

The two thousand (or whatever) recommended daily caloric intake is a baseline for NORMAL humans - olympic athletes engage in far more activity than you or me, and as such those standards do not apply to them. Clearly the man is in brilliant physical condition, and any longterm detrimental effects of his lifestyle are pure speculation if all you've got to base them on is "it's different from what I do". 141.154.214.30 (talk) 19:56, 17 August 2008 (UTC) - hitheremynameisbob

Incomplete reference regarding Spitz's 7 golds
It should be mentioned in para 1 of the page that "Mark Andrew Spitz (born February 10, 1950) is a two-time American Olympic swimmer and the only Olympian to win a gold medal in each event he entered and to establish a new world record in each such event as well." This is a direct quote from Spitz's Wiki page. The second part of Spitz's accomplishment is missing from M. Phelps page - it is relevant since his 7th Beijing gold was only in OR and not WR time. 72.95.81.192 (talk) 09:14, 16 August 2008 (UTC)Hank

Let's leave that on Spitz' page... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.121.242.174 (talk) 03:27, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Duplicate wording in introductory paragraphs
First, we see this:

"...and 8 gold at Beijing in 2008, seven of those set world record times."

Then we see this:

"Phelps competed in eight swimming events at the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, winning gold medals in all of them and breaking seven world records."

Can someone fix by either adjusting the first quotation above or the second quotation, please? I have no particular preference, just that duplication be eliminated one way or another. Thanks! 64.209.16.204 (talk) 04:15, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect mouseover text
The alternate/mouse over text is incorrect on the table in the 2008 Olympics section. The "Olympic Record" icon in the table has a mouseover that says "World Record" instead of "Olympic Record" (for the 100m Butterfly). (Perhaps all icons in the acticle should be switched to use the WR and OlyR templates?) Thanks --151.203.71.92 (talk) 06:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Lead
I've cut the lead down a little to reduce duplication, and make the lead more representative of the article of the whole (as is advised in Wikipedia guidelines). While his performance in the last week is phenomenal, the article is about more than that his Beijing medal haul broke records. The article is in flux, so it's natural that things like that happen, but it needs to be kept under control. Mostlyharmless (talk) 06:20, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

WR
There is no WR of 4x100 of Medley Relay. The time is 3:29.34 Rga (talk) 09:17, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well according to other media sources (including NBC), it was a world record --Slayergenxxx (talk) 12:02, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Per the source that Rga provided, the old record was 3:30.68, which both the Aussies and the Americans topped. I don't see the problem? S.  D. Jameson 22:51, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Is he really checked by World Anti-Doping Agency in Beijing?
Not only read on hungarian forums, but also on Hungarian Television there was a discussion that WADA isn't check Chinese and American sportmans on the olympics.
 * Unless you have a Reliable source to back up your claims that he isn't, I don't know where you're going with this. He is checked (blood and urine) more than the average athlete at the games.  Black  ngold29   01:04, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you believe NBC and its coverage of the Olympics, Phelps (and several other members of the US team) are being "super tested", in that, he is being tested by the US anti-doping group in excess of the requirements of the World Anti-Doping Agency and samples of his blood are being kept for 8 years so that it can be tested when new tests are developed. --Bobblehead (rants) 01:09, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There was a USA Today article on this with a two page spread?, I think, it was just shortly before the Olympics games began. So it isn't just NBC reporting it. I think this is the online version of the paper article that I had read: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2008-04-25-dopingprogram_N.htm 64.209.16.204 (talk) 01:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Marfan Syndrome
According to his book (http://books.google.com/books?id=Fd8Cwqz9-NAC&pg=PA66&dq=Michael+Phelps:+Beneath+the+Surface+marfans&ei=mS6kSLiXCITMigGu_cn6BA&sig=ACfU3U0zp2LMpjkgXzxfdkbH7p2YMCVm1w) Phelps has Marfan Syndrome, which would help explain his physique. As someone who has several relatives with the condition, I feel it should be mentioned.Juggertrout (talk) 00:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

He doesn't have Marfan's syndrome. Don't be ridiculous. We are an age of modern medicine; he is not diagnosed with this easy-to-diagnose condition. Gacggt (talk) 02:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

The very page you've linked in that book says quite clearly that he doesn't have Marfans, only that he had symptoms that signal a greater risk. They tested him for it, and he doesn't have it. 141.154.214.30 (talk) 19:58, 17 August 2008 (UTC) - hitheremynameisbob


 * At the article for Marfan syndrome, Phelps is listed as a sufferer, sourced by an article that quotes his biography for support. -- AvatarMN (talk) 08:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Now removed. A journalist's misinterpretation of Phelp's own words is neither a medical diagnosis nor a reliable source.  Kablammo (talk) 18:06, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Fred Phelps
Is this swimmer a close relative of Fred Phelps? 68.37.146.82 (talk) 03:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

No. See the section earlier on the discussion page - Michael's father is named Fred Phelps, but he has no relation to the Kansas preacher. 141.154.214.30 (talk) 19:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC) - hitheremynameisbob

pls add one iw link
wuu:Michael Phelps
 * ✅ Done--Bobblehead (rants) 04:52, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Phelps Phan commercial
There should be a mention of that cell phone commercial where this chick is wearing a shirt that says "Phelps Phan," and she misses the call where Michael Phelps is near her signing autographs and stuff and she calls herself a "big dummy."
 * That is considered trivia and that kind of information is discouraged in Wikipedia. --  At am a chat 20:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Record
Michael Phelps beat Mark Spitz's record of 7 Gold Medals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.223.187.185 (talk) 22:49, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * At a single Games? Yes, I think a rather large number of people were already aware of that.  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:58, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

yes michael phelps the best —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.29.161.20 (talk) 23:58, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Not quite the greatest Olympian ever
Eleven gold medals and all that. Well done. And now we're told that this "gives him the most gold medals of any Olympic athlete" and makes him "the most successful Olympian ever."

Now for some perspective. The modern Olympic Games have been going since 1896. That means there have been 28 (25 in fact, as Wars happened). The actual Olympics did, of course, start around 786 BC. The Ancient Olympics came to an end somewhere between 393 and 435 AD. 'Our' Olympics are just a small fraction of that total.

Which is where I bring us on to Leonidas of Rhodes. Born 188 BC, he was 24 when he competed in his first Olympics and won at the stadion (200 yard sprint), the diaulos (400 yard spring), and the hoplitodromos (a race in armour). Our hero Leonidas won again at these three events in 160 BC, 156 BC and 152 BC. Bringing us to a grand total of 12 Olympic crowns/golds/wins.

Chew on that, Mr. Phelps.

NoNameR (talk) 06:57, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * These types of posts are not appropriate. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a soapbox. —Lowellian (reply) 07:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This is WP:OR unless you have a source. The statement, if accredited, should be left in.  Black  ngold29   07:02, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Found one. Let me decide on how to add it. SirFozzie (talk) 07:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm, when most people say "Olympics" nowadays I don't think they really mean the games from Ancient Greece, but rather the ones started from 1896.  Balkan Fever not a fan? say so! 07:22, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've posted a section in the article, take a look. SirFozzie (talk) 07:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Others feel like it shouldn't be in the article *shrug* at least I learned something interesting out of it. SirFozzie (talk) 07:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * How about you add it in a footnote?
 * In the intro it says: ...which gave him the most gold medals of any Olympic athlete of the modern Olympic era..
 * And after that you could add a footnote, that Leonidas of Rhodes was the most successful guy of all time winning 12 single events (or something like that). -- DanteRay (talk) 18:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This is complete nonsense. Even if we disregard the fact that by "Olympics" people today usually mean "modern Olympics" (which started in 1894), and the fact that we couldn't really compare the results from ancient and modern Olympic games since events that athletes competed in were completely different, one thing is certain - Phelps is definitely the athlete with most gold medals ever, since competitors in the ancient Olympics didn't receive gold medals for wins - their prizes were olive wreaths, palm branches and woollen ribbons. :-) Timbouctou (talk) 22:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

The above argument of Timbouctou is sheer sophistry. Sure, Phelps has the most Olympic gold medals, but not (at the moment!) the most Olympic victories. That the Greeks used laurel wreaths instead of medals should not be used to denigrate the achievements of their athletes. The symbol of the victory does not nullify the achievement. Also, remember that the modern Olympics are meant to be a revival of the old. When Phelps beats the 12 Olympic victories of Leonidas of Rhodes (which will be soon), then he may be considered the greatest Olympian of all time.Catiline63 (talk) 17:19, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I personally believe that we should not be comparing Ancient Athletes to Modern Athletes. The ancients had no where near as much endurance as our athletes of today do.  I mean after all Pheidippides ran 26 miles from Marathon to Athens and then dropped dead on the spot.  While today's runners do it routinely and don't drop dead.  Say what you will but I feel today's athletes have more endurance.--Subman758 (talk) 22:42, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

We should compare our modern athletes too ancient athletes.In ancient times the athletes did'nt have a treadmill to train they runners.The truth is ancient athletes had it much harder than we do today.Think about the runners in the hotter places. They don't drop dead because we have the technology to keep them alive.


 * This whole topic is now Irrelevant,as Phelps now has 13 Gold Medals he is OFFICIALLY THE GREATEST OLYMPIAN OF ALL TIME--Subman758 (talk) 02:32, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hold on there. Mark Spitz was, and still remains, the only Olympian to win a gold medal in every event in which he competed, and to establish a new world record in each such event. Phelps, as phenomenal an athlete as he is, did not establish a world record in his seventh gold win, on 16 August 2008. In any case, my nominees for greatest Olympian remain Bob Beamon or Bruce Jenner. 69.203.13.82 (talk) 06:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC) Allen Roth


 * Number of gold medals is a poor criteria for 'greatest olympian'. Phelps is a swimmer - he is lucky to be in a sport where he can compete in eight different events in the same olympics.  Competitors in Boxing or Archery or Badminton or, in fact, most of the other sports at the olympics, simply don't have that luxury.  A better criteria is the number of golds in consecutive olympics.  If Phelps is still winning in 2024, then he's the greatest, but until then, in my estimation, he is not as great as those athletes who have won golds in 5 or 6 consecutive olympics.  91.109.139.152 (talk) 13:11, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well now the gold medal argument is irrelevant, as he just got his 8th gold. As for the consecutive thing... it's much harder to do that in some sports than others, so it's an unfair comparison as well. Don't believe me? There's a reason most of the female gymnasts are ages 16-26; beyond that it's incredibly hard to perform well as your body is not as resistant to injury and also doesn't recover as quickly. They definitely would have more trouble winning consecutive golds than someone would in, say, archery, where age plays less of a factor. Not to mention that gymnastics could be considered much harder because it is dependent on human and thusly includes human error, as opposed to something such as running races, which can be judged mechanically.
 * And as for not getting a world record for at least one of his swims... one could argue that he did surpass Mark Spitz's time on each of his swims, with the possible exception of the 100m freestyle (unsure if Phelps competed in that, but I suspect he did beat Spitz's time on his part of the 4x100m freestyle, on half of the 200m freestyle, and/or half of his part of the 4x200m freestyle relay; take your pick). He has tied Spitz's number of world records in a single Olympiad, and surpassed him in other ways, and also Spitz has said multiple times that he believes Phelps to be the greatest Olympic champion in history, so I think it's safe to say Spitz cannot be brought up as still being better than Phelps.
 * And so, I do believe it's safe to say Phelps is the greatest Olympic champion of all time, as best can be determined.


 * Consecutive golds would seem slightly fairer than total golds, although you're right, neither is ideal. In that case, I think if we were going to call someone the greatest, it would have to be someone with golds in multiple unrelated disciplines.  I am adamant that swimmers have too many medal opportunities compared to athletes in other disciplines - it isn't realistically possible to beat Phelps' record without being a swimmer, and it probably wasn't realistically possible to beat Spitz's record without being a swimmer.  I suppose this discussion goes to show what an empty title 'greatest olympian' really is.  91.109.139.152 (talk) 10:14, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorator (talk) 03:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not up to wiki to determine who the greatest olympian is, even with references. The criteria is subjective and besides, it's a mythical title.--66.122.76.19 (talk) 08:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it is indeed inappropriate for Wiki to make a judgment of any kind, since it is its job to report facts. But this is a TalkPage, so we're just having a friendly conversation (although that is not what TP's are for). Many writers make good points. One that is not valid is that "Spitz wasn't that fast," or "Phelps beat all of Spitz's times, even if he didn't break a world record." Please. One must judge an athlete by the times in his day, not in later days. That would be like suggesting that Jesse Owens (also a condidate for "greatest Olympian") was not "fast." Training methods develop and change and improve, etc. etc. But at any given time, the setting of a new world record ought to be treated as equivalent to doing the same thing 30 years later, even if the later time is faster. One of the few situations where this is arguably not the case is Bob Beamon's Long Jump, when he broke the world record by so much that it had to be re-measured because no one had expected anyone to jump that far. Foidehmoh, his record stood for over 25 years, I believe. I do not think that any world record in any event has ever stood for anything near that amount of time. 69.203.13.82 (talk) 17:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC) Allen Roth


 * It does not matter at all whether he actually is the greatest Olympian ever, it simply matters whether or not he has been called that by reliable sources. The relevant policy states that Wikipedia is about verifiability not "truth." S.  D. Jameson 17:54, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you're being a little pedantic. Nobody above has cited a source for such a "title," so it should be clear we were all only expressing personal opinions. Actually, I just glanced at the Bob Beamon article, and his record in the Long Jump was set in 1968, and it remains the world record. Forty years. I don't believe that any record in any event has stood for anything like that amount of time, which ought to put Mr. Beamon is the forefront of candidates for such a "greatest Olympian" title. Mr. Phelps is not really in that league, although his achievements are indeed spectacular. 69.203.13.82 (talk) 18:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC) Allen Roth
 * Eh? Beamon's record was broken in 1991, so it stood for "only" twenty-three years. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Citing specific, quite relevant policy on the matter is not "pedantic" in the least. As for sources for that reference, there, are quite a few that make that claim. There are plenty more out there as well. Your original research regarding Beamon, and what his WR in the long jump means (which you may be right about, but it's still OR) is moot. All that matters is that there are reliable sources out there making the statement that Phelps is the greatest. S.  D. Jameson 18:58, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Jameson is spot on. Flat out stating that "Phelps is the greatest Olympian..." is incorrect, however if properly worded with the sources he's listed above, it can still be put it in.  For example, "Many have argued that Phelps is the greatest Olympian..." or "Some of claimed...".  Something along those lines would be perfectly acceptable.  Jauerbackdude?/dude. 19:08, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Eliciting irrelevant responses like the above two is one of the reasons that I rarely contribute to Wiki any longer: (1) I never suggested that Bob Beamon is the greatest Olympic athlete; I simply stated that, in any such judgment, he would be a high contender. And I did not put it in this article, or suggest that it be so placed. (2) Original Research? A fact like the number of planets in the solar system does not constitute original research merely because I don't provide a citation. My statements re Beamon fall into this class. And (3) I never suggested that a source stating that Phelps is the "greatest Olympian" could not properly be mentioned in Wikipedia. All this verbiage at straw men is thoroughly superfluous; can't anyone understand straightforward English any longer, even if it is expressed with correct grammar? lol 69.203.13.82 (talk) 21:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC) Allen Roth
 * If you read my response more carefully, you would have noticed that I never addressed anything in your statement. I merely responded to what Jameson stated.  I guess my English wasn't straightforward enough for you.  Jauerbackdude?/dude. 21:16, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I second this. Apparently, the need to read responses more carefully lies with the IP, not with us. I don't make the claim about Phelps, sources do. You made the OR claim that Beamon should be in the front of the line for such discussions. My point was that it doesn't matter what either of us think is true, it matters what is verifiable. And the fact that there are reliable sources claiming Phelps is the greatest Olympian ever is completely verifiable. S.  D. Jameson 03:10, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I third this. Jameson hit it on the nose, nothing on WP should be effected by what people think, only what can be verified.  Black  ngold29   03:32, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

(od) Of course, to keep it balanced, it's also been argued (through verifiable sources) that he is NOT the greatest Olympian ever. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 13:34, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course. However, my posts were solely in response to the OP's original research regarding Leonidas as supposedly "disproving" the claims made by sources, and the IPs subsequents posts on the matter as well. I have no problem with it being reported in the article as a "point/counterpoint" type of thing. S.  D. Jameson 13:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Retires from 400 meter individual medley after the 2008 olympics?
Does Phelps retire from 400 meter individual medley after the 2008 olympics, or does he possibly retire from some other event? I think I heared something like this somewhere, but now I just can't find any good reference for it. GlassCobra from an irc channel has found and JamieS93_ found. If you know anything better, please tell, and possibly add to the article. &#x2013; b_jonas 15:52, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No I heard that too, and I have no reference except remembering Phelps in an interview say something like "I told Bob that [I wasn't going to swim] the 400 IM anymore, and he said, 'It has to end in a record.'" I don't know why he would quit, he destroys that race, but I do remember him saying it. I know that doesn't help much either. Crazy coyote (talk) 04:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I remember Cseh László saying in an interview that he was sad about it as well. However, note that Phelps won with the time 4:03.84 whereas Cseh was second with the time 4:06.16 which is worse than Phelps' previous world record 4:05.25 so even with Phelps retiring, his record might still hold for a while.  &#x2013; b_jonas 08:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

NYT comparing Phelps to other whole countries
I propose to remove this NYT quote. Yes, it satisfies V and it may or may not satisfy N, but there is clearly a wrong assumption in the comparison made by the author, because of the 7 golds that Phelps won, two were in relays, and Phelps obviously can't swim 400m in 3.08.24 by himself or 800m in 6.58 by himself. Yes, I know about verifiability and we aren't presenting this as the truth, we are just reporting it, but this statement is clearly nonsensical. If it was just an opinionated statement like "NYT said that Phelps is the greatest of all time" then ok, but if it is quoting an "incorrect fact" I think we should avoid it.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 06:57, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree. You could make an a better argument that it's merely trivia, but the NYT wasn't the only ones who stated this.  I believe that it was also mentioned on the NBC broadcast.  I think it puts his achievement in better perspective, and I don't look at it as an "incorrect fact" at all, just because two of the medals were from relays.  I think you're missing the point of it. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 10:11, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's some other sources: Jauerbackdude?/dude. 13:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Just because it's well sourced, does not mean it isn't trivia. Maybe it can be paraphrased to say that "Before winning his 8th medal, Phelps had won more medals alone than all but 14 countries". The idea of Phelps literally being a country called "the Person’s Republic of Michael" is a bit silly. -- MacAddct &#xF8FF; 1984 (talk &#149; contribs) 14:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm going to have to say this is just trivia. Especially since it occurred during the middle of the games. If, say, at the end of the games he still beat all but fourteen countries, that would be something possibly worth noting. I think the article already has enough about the number of golds he won this year anyway. I haven't been editing Wikipedia for too long, but might this kind of thing be something you would want to leave to external links? It's detail not really worth mentioning here, but possibly of interest to someone researching Phelps in the 2008 games. Khalfani  Khaldun  15:09, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not saying that it's not trivia, however having trivia incorporated into an article is not a bad thing. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 15:40, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe MacAddct's suggestion would be the best route to take, then. Khalfani Khaldun  16:29, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that it verges on trivia, but because it has been mentioned by so many different sources (very rarely do you find a fact that can be cited to five seperate sources) I don't think that including a sentence about it in the prose would be a major deal. Go for it.  Black  ngold29   16:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I support inclusion of the wording by Mac. It sounds more encyclopedic, and much less trivial. S.  D. D.J.Jameson 16:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have no problems with Mac's version. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 17:35, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This fact is ephemeral; while interesting at the time and appropriate for a newspaper, it is unnecessary for an encyclopedia. Kablammo (talk) 18:21, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There's nothing "ephemeral" about the fact that Phelps had at one point won more golds than all but 14 entire countries. That's a notable fact, and it's completely verifiable as well. S.  D. D.J.Jameson 17:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I find it kind of ironic that you pretty much described it as ephemeral, yet stated that it was not. Ephemeral: lasting for a short period of time. "Phelps had at one point won more golds..." How is that not ephemeral? While I have no problem with MacAddct's version, the fact remains that in the long run this fact is not very important, and will probably eventually be deleted. Khalfani Khaldun  18:07, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The recently added sentence in the beginning was removed because it was too ambiguous. I know it can be moved, but the statement is better off than put in where it's ambiguous. See my edit summary as my reason. Just rephrase it and add it back in. (Also, my opinion, look at it, it does seem a bit trivial.) — Andy W. (talk/contrb.) 20:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * In the 2008 Beijing Games section of the article, the last paragraph already mentions Phelps' achievements on the medal count compared to countries. (I removed the statement about Phelps behind Larissa the gymnast; it was already stated in the opening paragraphs of this article.) — Andy W. (talk/contrb.) 20:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Mitch Phelps
Yeah can someone please edit that out? Apparently protecting an article does nothing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koolsen1 (talk • contribs) 16:19, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ Done Khalfani Khaldun  16:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Locked?
I'm just curious, why is this locked? What kind of vandalism took place? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JibFlank (talk • contribs) 16:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * More than likely something of this nature would be semi-protected. --Zeta9009 (talk) 21:18, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Semi-protection should not be used as a pre-emptive measure against vandalism that has not yet occurred, nor should it be used solely to prevent editing by anonymous and newly registered users. In particular, it should not be used to settle content disputes." WP:SEMI, if there have not been incidents of vandalism, then the semi-protection should be removed immediately. --Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 18:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It was semi-protected on Aug. 7 because of vandalism by multiple IP's that was taking place. Semi-protection expires on Aug. 29.  JGHowes talk  -  07:15, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, if I can't edit it in myself, someone please fix the references to Jason Lezak that should be linked to his Wikipedia page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.77.64.250 (talk) 04:08, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Energy Unit Error
1200 calories, should be 1200 kilocalories. Incorrect units. == —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swordth (talk • contribs) 09:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the Calories article "kcal" is more common than "Calories". Though it has already been fixed in the article I'll just point out that 1200 kcal is about half the daily intake of an adult man. In the source (and now in the article too) the number is 12000. Teglsbo (talk) 11:54, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I slighty disagree with the edit by Wortschätzer. The source says six times so it's confusing to change it to five times more. Another thing is that according to the recommended intake for men is 2550 kcal. So Phelps is "only" eating 4.7 times the recommended average (or 3.7 time more). To change that I would probably have to add another source for the average daily intake. Teglsbo (talk) 12:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Now I've changed it to six times instead of five times more by citing the source directly. Teglsbo (talk) 17:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Wrong Fred Phelps
Please fix link —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.114.178 (talk) 03:45, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done.  Black  ngold29   04:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

MICHAEL PHELPS- MARK SPITZ
I recently read an article in the Washington Post, that even though Michael Phelps won eight medals and broke three world records in the Beijing Olympics, Mark Spitz won seven gold medals and broke seven world records in the '72 Munich games. That is SEVEN gold medals, each one with a world record!!! WHICH means Phelps has NOT surpassed Spitz' achievement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.156.72 (talk) 18:48, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The Washington Post article is wrong. Phelps broke 7 world records (NOT JUST 3) and won 8 gold. Get your facts straight. — Andy W. (talk/contrb.) 19:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

SORRY..... "to get my facts straight" I checked the 2008 Beijing games website and he appears to have only four NOT seven world records, and eight gold medals at the 2008 Beijing games ONLY, maybe he has seven including the ones from Athens?
 * Look at the citations on his results on the article. Eight golds, seven WRs, one OR. It's all there. Do you have a link to this Wash Post article?  Black  ngold29   23:05, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

No, I only skimmed through the article, it said either three or four, I was just trying to find the correct answer, but I keep getting different numbers. I read the article here on Wikipedia but when I checked the Beijing 2008 website it says four world records and about eight or nine olympic records. Then again, it might not be all there yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.156.72 (talk) 23:09, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it was referring to individual medals?  Black  ngold29   23:11, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

YES! you are right, I just figured it out. Thanks, this has been bugging me all day! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.156.72 (talk) 23:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Democratic National Convention?
The article states that "Following the games, Phelps is scheduled to attend the Democratic National Convention as a guest of Maryland senator Benjamin Cardin" - however, the only source it has is is NBC Nightly News, and I don't remember hearing anything about Michael Phelps and the DNC. Does anyone have another source for this? (talk BBCOFFEECAT (talk) 03:05, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't find anything on it either, even on the NBC Nightly News page. The item was added by someone who has made only two edits in the last month. I will go ahead and hide the sentnece as dubious until someone can provide another source or a link to the broadcast. -- William&#39;s scraper (talk) 19:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree. I've checked the websites for DNC, Phelps, and Sen. Cardin, and find no mention of it. I dropped a message on the user's talk page informing him of this.  JGHowes talk  -  20:19, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Update: In a live television appearance today on ABC's Good Morning America from New York City, Phelps said he "arrived in New York yesterday from London" (where he has been since Sunday). He is not in Denver.  JGHowes talk  -  12:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Phelps big announcement
What was the announcement he made on the Today show this morning? We are dealing with Gustav and it kept cutting out before I could see it. Is he getting married?74.196.134.34 (talk) 19:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I would appear not. He is, however, going to start a swimming foundation. Linkage.  Black  ngold29   20:16, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

That's awesome. Thanks for the reply.74.196.134.34 (talk) 22:57, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Johnny Weissmuller vs Michael Phelps
How to compare recent swimming achievements with previous ones? Back in Johnny Weissmuller's time there were just a few swimming events. He won events from 100m to 800m. The range of current swimmers such as Michael Phelps is smaller, but they can get more medals simply because there are more events. Olympicdreams (talk) 23:47, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think Weissmuller's 800 win was in a relay. And one cannot compare just the raw numbers of events, as the mechanics of three of the four strokes are very different-- they are different skills.  One of Phelps' most notable accomplishments is his victories in the IM events; which require him to be accomplished in two strokes not otherwise part of his specialty.
 * It is unclear whether this discussion is about proposed changes to the article-- is there something you feel is missing or incorrect? Kablammo (talk) 00:02, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess the article is all right - it's the articles on multiple medal winners that may need some changes because one cannot really compare recent achievements to much older ones for various reasons. Olympicdreams (talk) 20:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

New Swim Suits
Worth a mention that the new swim suits helped shave so much off his time. While, obviously, it didn't give him an unfair advantage (because everyone was wearing the suits) it would explain why he broke so many records, and in many cases, by so much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.9.151.226 (talk) 11:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The use of the suits is worth mentioning in this article. Saying that " it would explain why he broke so many records" is your point of view and not fact however.  Let's stick to the facts.--Rtphokie (talk) 21:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Many of his medals are from relays where he needed his comrades
If Michael Phelps were from Portugal or another small country he would have many fewer medals, because so many of his medals are from relays where he needed his comrades, and it is much easier to win relays if your country is big and has many other top athletes in the same sport. The same is true for Larissa Latynina and others. Shouldn't this be mentioned? Olympicdreams (talk) 22:26, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, only 3 of his 8 Olympic Medals in Beijing were team events. The other five were individual events. Phelps tied Spitz's record for most individual medals in a Olympic Games. So no, I don't think that adding that to the article would be advisable. SirFozzie (talk) 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The article shows that three of his medals were won in relays, therefore I think it would be assumed that people realize that. Nobody ever claimed he won 8 individual medals.  Black  ngold29   22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * But there are several other persons who won five individual gold medals in one Olympics, right? Shouldn't we also have lists limited to individual gold medals? Olympicdreams (talk) 23:05, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * To the best of my knowledge... there's only two. Phelps and Spitz. Larissa Latynina never won five golds in any one Olympics (I'm pretty sure the article here mentions that Phelps tied Spitz as the only people to win five golds in an individual Olympic Games. By the way, Phelps might lead in most individual Olympic Golds too.. he has 9 Gold (and a bronze).. Paavo Nurmi has seven, and Carl Lewis has seven as well. Latynina only has nine golds TOTAL over three games). SirFozzie (talk) 23:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * And Eric Heiden, five individual golds in 1980 Winter Olympics. Kablammo (talk) 23:34, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * But Spitz got only 4 individual golds in the same Olympics, didn't he? But back then there were fewer swimming events, so it seems a bit unfair to compare this. Olympicdreams (talk) 23:32, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, Vitaly Scherbo also won five individual gold medals in one Olympics. Olympicdreams (talk) 23:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think the number of Olympic swimming events has changed in some time. Kablammo (talk) 23:34, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sure it has changed, for example, look at the 50m events. And back in Johnny Weissmuller's time there were even fewer swimming events, so you cannot really compare recent swimming achievements with previous ones. Olympicdreams (talk) 23:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * True about the old, old days. In 1956 there were 13 events for both men and women. They only had one fly/breast/back event per gender until 1968? and no IM before then at all? Medley relay was only introduced in 1960. Ah well, Australia would have won about 20 golds if they 32 events in 1956 including all the relays probably.  YellowMonkey  ( click here to choose Australia's next top model! ) 07:30, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The 50 free is the only individual event added to the Men's program since 1972, and Phelps did not compete in it. So a comparison with Spitz is valid-- as Spitz himself likely would say, given the gracious comments he made after Phelps' eighth gold.  Kablammo (talk) 23:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Another thing is that in recent times, a lot more countries have become strong and the US can no longer cruise to relay victories by 4-5seconds in 400m like they did in the old days. If the 4th best swimmer is bad or has a bad day then no country can win the event anymore.  YellowMonkey  ( click here to choose Australia's next top model! ) 07:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoops! My bad, yeah. Eric Heiden and Vitaly Scherbo. I stand corrected :) SirFozzie (talk) 23:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

No longer the record holder of most Olympic Gold Medals. (?)
Michael Phelps has, as of today, 14 Olympic Gold Medals. On September 10th, 2008, Jonas Jacobsson, a swedish sport shooter who is a part of the swedish team in the Beijing 2008 Paralympic Games, took his 15th Gold Medal, breaking Phelps record in this particular category. The I have is: Should the information about Phelps record be rejusted? Does it only count if it's within the firts phase of the Olympics, and not the Paralympic?

(September 10, 22:31) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.230.42.56 (talk) 20:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I would think the Olympics and Paraolympics would fall under two different catagories, as they are two different events.  Black  ngold29   20:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I think this sentence should be qualified to make this distinction. I am not sure what wording should be used, but it should be mentioned that he has won most golds in the "first phase" of the olympics, but that he has the second most golds overall. Henrichek (talk) 15:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know if I'm alone in this or not, but I don't see the Paralympics a "phase" of anything. The Olympics and the Paralympics are two completely different events. I have nothing but respect for Paraolympians, but it's a far less publisized event and has a much shorter history than the Olympics. I think that people understand the difference. One doesn't have to clarify that the Boston Celtics have the most championship victories in their sport, but the New York Yankees have more championship titles; it's assumed because they play two differnt sports.  Black  ngold29   16:00, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Blackngold, they are two completely separate events. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 18:13, 12 September 2008 (UTC)