Talk:Michael Schiavo

How Schiavo & his wife met
1.) The information about how they met is still there. 2.) Are we supposed to omit information about alleged drug abuse from the article about George W. Bush? Ckessler

I don't make up the news, I merely report it. The fact remains that news outlets did indeed print allegations of spousal abuse. Nowhere in the article I wrote did it state definitively that Michael Schiavo abused his wife. I am willing to admit that the choice of sources quoted on the subject is ill-chosen, but that doesn't mean that the reports of spousal abuse didn't happen. Feel free to add a line stating that no evidence was found, but don't overdo it. Ckessler

Put up whatever [possibly forged] documents you'd like, the autopsy stated that there was absolutely no evidence of domestic abuse and that the allegations of fractures could not be substantiated from x-rays. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8225637/

"Some accusing Schiavo of spousal abuse" is about as good of evidence for putting that into a definitive article as saying "Some believe Terri had very little brain damage" and putting that as fact. Don't play the context game, kid. --Dima 04:24, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

First of all, I am unwilling to give credence to the objections of someone who doesn't sign their post or who will not sign up for a Wikipedia account. Second of all, many news outlets have reported the allegations against Michael Schiavo; and just as many have printed information about the medical malpractice lawsuit and Schiavo's allegation that Terri's eating disorder caused her collapse and medical crisis. Both are noted in this article.

For example:

Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152015,00.html "And the divide between Michael Schiavo's camp and the Schindlers' has turned even more venomous, with some accusing Schiavo of spousal abuse and blaming him for his wife's condition."

Here is a scan of the medical report from the bone scan: (the website is biased, however, this is a scan of an original document, signed, stamped and dated): http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/terri_schiavo_bone_scan.html Ckessler

All this information is in the other article. I don't see why this needs its own. Mike H 08:03, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)


 * As pointed out in Talk:Terri Schiavo,
 * the sole topic of the article is not her right to live/die, but indeed Ms Schiavo herself.
 * similarly here, the topic of this article is not Terri Schiavo, but Michael Schiavo. He cannot be reduced to some other person, is as central to the uproar as Terri and as her parents, and, from the looks of things, will (a) outlive her and (b) continue to be in the news after that. He is at least as noteworthy as Pokemon characters and the endless reams of porno "actors" and similar fancruft that Wikipedia has accepted as subjects for separate small articles. Bill 12:48, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

*Editing* and NPOV
*Editing* and NPOV

If it has a source that is legitimate (e.g., CNN, Larry King), that's NPOV. Court depositions, when contrasted with statements made on Larry King are NPOV. Just the facts, ma'am. He said one thing, then he said another. It doesn't get more factual than that. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.163.101.10 (talk &bull; contribs) 04:17, 26 March 2005.
 * Agreed. I've begun fixing the ridiculous pov. keep up the goood work. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.247.91.219 (talk &bull; contribs) 21:20, 6 February 2006.

Quality
This article is currently of a low quality. There is some relevant information that could be here, but isn't. We could also have quotes from Michael about the case. Michael Schiavo is (or was) newsworthy because of his role in the Terri case. There should be biographical information about the guy, and also some information on his actions in the case and afterwards. Yes, a lot of that stuff is covered in the Terri article, but there is relevant information that's specific to the husband. A Michael-specific item is the money he's been offered as a result of the scandal. The Terri article currently has this information:

"On March 11, 2005, media tycoon Robert Herring (who believes that stem cell research could have cured Schiavo's condition) offered 1,000,000 (USD) to Michael Schiavo if he agreed to cede his guardianship to his wife's parents.[72] The offer was rejected; George Felos, attorney for Michael Schiavo, described it as 'offensive,' adding that Michael had rejected other monetary offers, including one of 10,000,000 (USD)."

If we could find out who made the $10 million offer, that would be good information for this article. Another thing: I hear he's been offered $2 million for a book or movie deal, but can't find any reliable sources on the matter. Did he accept? Every source I've seen that mentions the deal is an anti-Michael opinion piece.

The article currently has a contextless, unsourced quote of Shiavo inserted by an anonymous user apparently as an attempt to discredit him. If there is a source, it should be given, and the quotes should be given context. This should be fixed before it gets back in the article: In 1992, Michael testified in court that he began studying nursing at St. Petersburg College around 1991. When asked why, he explained: "Because I enjoy it and I want to learn more how to take care of Terri.... I see myself hopefully finishing school and taking care of my wife. ... I want to bring my wife home. ... I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that."  Eventually he became a respiratory therapist and emergency room nurse. --Mr. Billion 18:19, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

The allegations about medical evidence of spousal abuse, whose only given source is a right-wing blog, also seem POV or at least misleading. Is there any paper trail for this "controversy" beyond an opinion piece?

Report Validity
I'm disgusted by the clear political bias in this article. The entire digression of "Some don't believe she had an eating disorder" is a joke and the only article cited as evidence of "reports of spousal abuse" were written by the founder of Jews For Life, a pro-life, politically conservative organization. Stop the bias and just talk about Michael Schiavo; don't use this article as grounds to further your pro-life agenda.

Substantiated/Unsubstanitated
Since when has it become the job of a Wikipedia editor to judge if external news sources have published substantiated or unsubstantiated reports? If there is evidence that a report of Michael's demeanor was inaccurate, put it into the article, otherwise don't attempt to characterize the "substance" of the reports. You might want to ask for better sourcing for all of the quotes. patsw 04:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Biographical details of Michael and his second wife
The details of when and where they met, and how their engagement became known to the public are verifiable and significant. Why have they been deleted twice? patsw 13:52, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Eating Disorder
It's one of the more often repeated errors in describing the history of the case:
 * [Schivao] alleged that G. Stephen Igel, an obstetrician whom the couple had been seeing in their efforts to conceive, missed symptoms of Terri's eating disorder,...

Actually, the symptoms were infertility and it was alleged that Igel should given her a detailed interview on her diet and tested for an eating disorder, and his alleged negligence was not in performing these. In the 2005 autopsy no characteristic scarring of the esophagus was found indicative of bulimia. Tests for bulimia before or after her collapse would have been negative. It's the POV that simply assumes Terri had a eating disorder and therefore was to blame for her own collapse. patsw 03:59, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I removed the line "Terri, as a teenager, had had a maximum weight of as much as 250 pounds. Some allege Michael threatened to leave her if she were to again become so overweight." Without a source for the allegation it sounds very POV. Also, from the remarriage section I removed "and during Terri's illness" from "They have two children, both born prior to their marriage, and during Terri's illness: the first was born in the fall of 2002, and the second was born in the spring of 2004." I felt its redundancy seems POV (the times of the children's birth and of Terri's death are already included in the article). Also, "illness" doesn't seem to be the appropriate term. Thoughts? -Jenn 24.23.141.156 02:12, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Fired six times: when?
"Fired six times in two years". What two years were those? Florida? -- Pinktulip 16:47, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

explanation of my changes
I am removing the second editor's note, about broken marriage vows, because I don't see what it adds to our understanding of the epitaph. We can all decide for ourselves what Schiavo meant.

I am removing the word "illegitimate" as POV, because a lot of people feel that children become legitimate when the mother and father marry, even if this takes place after birth.

I am removing the word "adultery" as POV. I don't know whether it applies in the legal sense, I imagine there is controversy over that. But in the everyday sense, those who feel that Terri Schiavo was meaningfully alive following her injury will consider Michael an adulterer; those who disagree would not.

--Allen 22:00, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough: so long as even people of a slightly-below-average I.Q. can still read the article and, absorb enough of the facts and, if they want to, recognize that these words could have been used, then that is good enogh for me. -- Pinktulip 16:35, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

One other comment: the U.S. Army decommissions officers found to have comitted adutery. In that sense, do you feel that the Army is particularly POV? It was that sense of the word "adultery" that I ment. Strictly administrative. A broken promise. If the reader wants to see it as evidence for a Character flaw, who are we to shield them from the Information? -- Pinktulip 16:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Remarriage
I deleted the sentence "Michael and Terri were never divorced" since it more more objective to state things that actually happened, rather than things that didn't happen.

Since nothing states the couple was divorced, there is no reason for the reader to assume they were (and parallel, no reason for the writer to state).

It is my hope that the second Mrs. Schiavo does not fail in health before Michael Schiavo, or he may have her DNR'd as well.

It's a gratuitous phrase, in other words, and seems inserted only to imply adultery in an incongruous context -- suggesting Michael was "cheating on his wife" does not provide an accurate account in the context of a woman whom doctors said over the years was in a persistent vegetative state from which she would not recover. I say this as a woman. - Herculaneum 16:33, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I just responded in the above section. Put the information back please. Some people, even people of slightly below-average I.Q. want to be able to recognize such situations easily. It is wrong for you to make that more difficult by removing or obscuring such information. -- Pinktulip 16:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

BTW: I recently added some comments on the Terri Schiavo talk page about how I feel that Michael's adultery helps the reader to see that he is a complex man. This a biography. Please do not go around simplifying it by destroying Information. -- Pinktulip 16:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Pinktulip issue
The following was left on my user page; I responded on his/her user page. When he/she continued, I brought this dicussion to the Schiavo page where all other editors can properly weigh in.

Herculaneum user page: Please revert yourself
I have explained on the talk page for Michael Schiavo that your changes are not helpful in providing the reader with Information. Please revert yourself. -- Pinktulip 16:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Pinktulip user page: Schivao
I edited out a clearly loaded phrase, and from what I read on your site, you have been inserting very opinionated, editorializing things in this section. --Herculaneum 16:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Herculaneum user page: Please revert yourself
I am not interested in futher discussing a talk page that is already far too long. I provide information that I feel some significant fraction of the readship wants to know. I do so in an NPOV manner and I am willing to further discuss the article content as I last left it. -- Pinktulip 16:48, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Pinktulip user page: Schivao
I do not feel it is NPOV to state something that didn't happen, as a substitute for not being able to put loaded words such as "illegitmate" and "adulterous" into this article. This isn't a place for advocacy of political or religious views. I'm copying this information and your comments to the Schiavo discussion page where I feel this belongs. -- Herculaneum 16:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Herculaneum page: Schivao
In this particular case, I fear that a significant fraction of the readership will make the "nice" but incorrect assumption. I am trying to help the reader see the Truth clearly. As it stands, it is not quite perflectly clear to the readership what is going on in Michael's life. They have to try hard to put two and two together. It both emphasizes the difficulties that he was under and the compromises (however slight that you as an individual might think that they are) that he was willing to make. -- Pinktulip 17:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Pinktulip, please leave further comments about Michael Schiavo edits here on the Michael Schiavo Discussion page where it belongs and others can read it. Please do not carry on with this on my user page.


 * You say, "They have to try hard to put two and two together." In other words, readers have to take the facts, and then make a conclusion themselves.


 * That's how it's supposed to be. What does everyone else think? -- Herculaneum 17:05, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

The Nurse
The afidavit by the former nurse was found to be without any credibility. http://mediamatters.org/items/200503230001 Ace-o-aces 23:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Is this a joke?
[blockquote]Gerbino, Joanne, Court Reporter. Transcript regarding "BARNETT BANK TRUST COMPANY as Guardian of the Property of THERESA SCHIAVO and MICHAEL SCHIAVO, individually, Plaintiffs, vs. G. STEPHEN IGEL, M.D., Defendant," CASE NO. 92-939-15, Purple Moose Marie Web log, November 5, 1992[/blockquote]

"Purple Moose Marie Web log"? What on Earth is that? Search Google and there are no results that don't come from this page. Did somebody pull this off of a short-lived blog with a goofy name? --Mr. Billion 03:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

terrisfight.org
I removed the link to terrisfight.org because, while you can get hits on Michael on that web site via Google, e.g. this search, the references are fragmentary. The site does not attempt to profile Michael in one place so why put the reader through that kind of hassle?--Moneyhabit 10:10, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

medical expenses
i would like to know more about the manner in which the expenses were paid.

who paid them. was michael responsible or was she on state assistance? Who paid for all the hospital bills? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.181.63.162 (talk) 12:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Books
I deleted the listing of the Schindlers' book and the third book because they are not by Mr. Schiavo himself, nor are they strictly about him. The third one isn't even a biography, but an opinion piece in book form, so it's not useful as a reference for further reading about Mr. Schiavo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshc99 (talk • contribs) 06:33, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced material and external links
I removed some unsourced material and some external links more appropriate for Terri Schiavo's page if at all. Anyways, hopefully discuss here. TIA, --Tom (talk) 12:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)