Talk:Michael Schumacher/Archive 9

Infobox
The infobox giving Schumacher's vitals need to be changed. Nothing is officially confirmed yet, so Schumacher technically in't a current driver. Even if it's only for one hour, it needs to be changed. I'd do it myself, but I don't know how. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 01:54, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Aptery  gial  03:08, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

SkyNews just confirmed it. It is official. Norum 10:44, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but someone had changed it at least twelve hours in advance. There's a difference between EXPECTED to sign and CONFIRMED to have signed, and that's why it had to be changed back. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 01:32, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Massa Crash 2009
According to an interview Schumacher gave the German magazine Spiegel in October 2009, he was not physically present at the time of Felipe Massa's crash in Budapest but watched the race on TV instead. This should be corrected in the article. Link to the interview (in German). --92.224.97.248 (talk) 08:00, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I dont think so, this has nothing to do with him, it doesnt matter where he was, only what he was prepared to do; step in. We dont need to document where he was at each big moment of his life —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.143.76.66 (talk) 08:27, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Is he really banned in 9 states in the U.S.?
He said so in the Top Gear, but I could not find any evidence to prove that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.70.43.90 (talk) 12:08, 27 March 2010 (UTC)


 * It was a joke. ColinClark (talk) 19:48, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect stat
"It is also of note that as of the end of the 2004 season, Schumacher had at least one Grand Prix win at every circuit he had raced on. For him to regain the record upon his return to Formula 1, he will have to win in Turkey, Valencia, Singapore, Abu Dhabi and Korea." The above is wrong, confusing the designated countries of Grand Prix and actual circuits. For example, he only raced at Donington Park once ('93) and didn't win there. However, that race was under the Grand Prix of Europe title, which he did when it was held at the Nurburgring. It also means he has no need to win in Valencia to regain that record, as that is also under the European GP title. - Pablo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.128.220 (talk) 12:52, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to reply to my own comment; it's even more incorrect than that. He never won the South African Grand Prix, having competed their twice. When I get a chance, I'm going to replace it with a "It is sometimes erroneously claimed that..." section and explain the misunderstanding. I think it comes form that stat that by the end of 2004, he had won at every current circuit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.128.220 (talk) 13:01, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Discussed previously way back in 2006 (see here). Hope you don't mind, but I don't think we have room in the article to explain why it is sometimes (how often, really?) claimed that...etc. I've cut it down to the record he actually holds, but as I noted way back in 2006, others have similar records: Fangio for one, and I'd be surprised if one or two of Ascari, Prost, Senna, Clark and Stewart didn't have something similar on their CVs. 4u1e (talk) 15:02, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * And now I've checked it out, I've deleted it altogether. He didn't win in China until 2006, and by then Turkey, where he has never won, was on the calendar. So in 2004 he had one win missing from his CV for a clean sweep. 4u1e (talk) 15:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it would be true to say that by the end of the 2002 and 2003 seasons he had at least one victory on each circuit used in those years' championships. He didn't win in Austria until 2002, spoiling the record before that, and China and then Turkey break the pattern from 2004 on. How notable that is though, I'm not sure. Another way of tackling it would be to give the percentage of all the tracks he has raced on that he has won at. 4u1e (talk) 15:47, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Comprehensive results table
Please contribute to the discussion taking place at Wikiproject Formula One.--Lucy-marie (talk) 16:56, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, and please leave the table alone until that discussion is concluded. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:12, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

What does he look like?
how about a decent pic?, showing his face .CorvetteZ51 (talk) 12:23, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The existing picture shows most of his face... DH85868993 (talk) 02:10, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Question about a picture in this article
Regarding this image: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Schu_Hakk_98BritGP.jpg

While the article's caption and the file's description say that it is Coulthard, the original and current filename both imply that it is Hakkinen... 88.105.84.115 (talk) 15:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like Coulthard from the helmet design, and indeed the caption in the article says it is Coulthard too. Schumi  555  16:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)I
 * It's Coulthard. No question.
 * The file has now been renamed to File:Schumacher_and_Coulthard_in_the_1998_British_Grand_Prix.jpg. DH85868993 (talk) 08:20, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Mention of 1994 Season in Controversy Section
Surely there should be a short, perhaps one sentence, mention of the Allegations of Cheating in the 1994 Season under the "Controversy" section. There is an entire Wikipedia page for this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Formula_One_cheating_controversy, but there should be a mention, and link, from here. 80.176.151.208 (talk) 15:14, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

What would be good for this page
1I think that there should be seperate sections for each of Schumacher's racing years, especially his world championship years as there is not a lot of detail covering any of his years apart from his years at Mercedes which were the least successful and probably not the ones people want to read about. 2I think that this page should have some kind of protection especially as Michael Schumacher is the most successful F1 driver ever while other modern and less successful drivers like Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel do have protection. I think the same should be done with other legendary and successful drivers of the past like Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dodo497 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Separate sections
This page definately need clear different sections for Schumacher's different Formula 1 years. What I don't understand is why onwards all have a separate page for each year when these were probably his worst years in the sport while there is only one section for his world championship years from - and  and. Whats even worse is that there is only one small paragraph on the season, samller than that on some of the single races in  to present.


 * It's not that the previous years are not broken up enough, but recentism is a common problem with a collectively written encyclopedia: it usually boils down to the salient points given time. We know who you are if you sign your posts (4x~) by the way. Britmax (talk) 10:23, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

2012 Monaco qualifying
Grid penalties are not relevant to the 'pole positions' stat. The 68 recorded by this page includes races where he hasn't started in first place due to penalties. The stat is an indication of the number of times a driver has been the fastest in qualifying only. He achieved pole position, but did not start from it, it is simple as that. Tom Green (talk) 18:56, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Um, I think you are crushingly misinformed. Fastest in qualifying isn't "pole position". Pole position is the position at the front of the starting grid, hence the name. Traditionally, it is an old horse racing term relating to the starting pole on the inside of the race course. The inside is the shortest distance around a race track so this was the preferred place to be sat on your horse ready for the start. Similarly in motor sport, that borrowed the term, if your car isn't there you don't get credited with a pole position stat. How many external sources would you like me to point you to that deal directly with recent occurences; there are a few hundred just on the internet. Try here, or here, or here, and how about here? Have you got any reliable sources that support your claims?  Pyrop e  19:22, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) Actually, it's as simple as this: find a reliable source that says he has 69 poles. In the past, the pole stat has always gone to the driver starting from the front of the grid, after penalties e.g. 2005 Italian Grand Prix. Also, if you want to start a discussion about something, don't change the article to your preferred version first. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Here's one of the more reliable stats accumulation sites... 68. Here is James Allen passing on his specialist knowledge to his blog readers... "Webber". There are plenty more.  Pyrop e  19:30, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * And here's the official word 68. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:34, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Sarcastic? Possibly, but then ill-informed pomposity sometimes needs to be pricked. Semi-abusive? In what way? I pointed out your lack of knowledge, I asked a couple of questions, and I provided a healthy list of sources that prove just how misinformed you are. If you find being proven wrong, using multiple, highly reliable, independent, third-party sources is "semi-abusive" then you really should make sure of your facts before telling a whole string of established editors that you are in the right. Now, rather than remove the comments, how about you respond to them?  Pyrop e  21:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Your approach was immature and unprofessional in my view, however I have backed down until official stats are updated (if they ever are). References are key as you say, so if they aren't updated then I won't be discussing this again. I am not interested in further arguments, perhaps it was flawed to take it upon myself to remove your comments. Tom Green (talk) 22:31, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * It certainly was no less mature or professional than your initial policy of ignoring the entire recent history of an article, installing your own preferred, utterly incorrect version and then trying to justify it on a talk page. FYI, the references have already been updated, on every stats site I know of, to show Webber's 10 poles, with Schumacher remaining on 68. One thing you are correct about is how flawed an idea it was to remove people's comments from a talk page, something you are not entitled to do. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:55, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I was wrong factually and morally, now get over yourself. Tom Green (talk) 17:50, 29 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Pot, kettle, etc.  Pyrop e  18:29, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

At the start of the press conference after the 2012 Monaco Grand Prix Qualifying, the interviewer congralutated him with his 69th pole position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.86.24.57 (talk) 15:42, 29 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Indeed. However, just because you find one ill-informed source, from a spoken interview conducted in the heat of the moment, doesn't mean that the overwhelming bulk of reputable, reliable sources (including that interviewer's employers...) that state otherwise are wrong.  Pyrop e  15:45, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

This session was not the same as the qualifying for the Spanish GP. In Spain Hamilton got disqualified from qualifying meaning that Pole Position was no longer his. In Monaco Schumacher did qualify on Pole, but was relegated 5 places because of a penalty, he didn't lose his 69th Pole Position. Even on Formula One video games, if you are fastest in qualifying, but get relegated becuase of a penalty, the Pole Position is still counted as yours. Surely therfore this is Schumacher's 69th Pole, not Webber's 10th. Dodo497 (talk)
 * No it wasn't the same as the Spanish GP, but it was just like the 2005 Italian Grand Prix, where Kimi Räikkönen was fastest in qualifying but had a 10-place grid penalty, so Montoya started on pole. Formula1.com says 68 poles for Schumacher and 10 poles for Webber. DH85868993 (talk) 12:02, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

1999 British Grand Prix
I think Schumacher's entry for the 1999 British Grand Prix should be a DNS, not a Retirement. Schumacher crashed on the aborted first lap of the race, and failed to make the restart. Under Regulations 156/157A of the FIA 1999 Sporting Regulations (link here), following a red-flag within the first 2 laps of a race, the first start will be null and void and the race restarted from scratch. As Schumacher was unable to take the restart, he should be DNS by the same token as Barrichello, Panis, etc at the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix. Obviously this would have an effect on his total starts, making the 300th start claim on 2012 Italian Grand Prix incorrect.

MTracey1 02:08, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Normally-reliable sources differ on whether it should be a "DNS" or "Ret" (e.g. FORIX (subscription required) and formula1.com say "DNS"; ChicaneF1 and Grandprix.com say "Ret"). The current WP:F1 consensus is to consider it as a "Ret" (which is not to say that consensus can't change; just pointing out that's what the current consensus is). DH85868993 (talk) 03:20, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I was about to suggest consistency with 1998 BEL, but I hadn't realised there was an official ongoing discussion.  I'll leave it to the community concensus.  Thanks.  MTracey1 03:42, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Legend
I dont know, from the article I dont feel a sense of the greatness he imposed over f1, it seems a little biased, more of a 'He was good, but it was annoying as no one else won' rather than, although he did stamp out the competition he was admired by the public.... everyone says so, even ecclestone (the king of f1 no matter what you say) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malkitas (talk • contribs) 22:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has to present a neutral point of view. As such it would be improper for any edits to tout him as "the greatest", "the best" or even "he was really good". This is called peacocking and is frowned up on as it is unencyclopaedic.
 * Chaosdruid (talk) 12:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)


 * There will always be personal opinions, but it is not POV that Schumacher and Senna together are by most regarded as the greatest drivers in F1 history. That's why I added the same line that tops the Ayrton Senna article, as the same reasoning applies to Schumacher as it does to Senna. 99% of the time Senna's and Schumacher's names will be included in any discussion on who was the greatest driver, as backed up by a number of references/sources. GameLegend (talk) 18:40, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The line "widely regarded as the greatest F1 driver of all time" in opening summery doesn't fit the neutral point of view IMO and I followed the four references and they don't convey that either,
 * Is a pole with no results anymore and would leave historical drivers at a disadvantage
 * Has him third "Greatest"
 * Puts it well with "Statistically the most successful driver in F1 history",
 * Has him third "Greatest"
 * I would say "he is one of the greatest" and it would keep it more neutral. Latendresse76 (talk) 03:11, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Monaco Qual
Look on official table, Michael is marked as Q-winner, maybe we should change the data in this and Monaco articles

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2012/869/7082/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.114.21.253 (talk) 18:50, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Which data? Data presented here relate to Pole Position starts, not qualification wins. The two are not the same thing, see above discussion.  Pyrop e  19:23, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Last driver born in the 1960's
Following Micheal's retirement in 2012 he will be the last driver born in the 1960's to race in F1. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.120.160.231 (talk) 19:18, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Michael_Schumacher deadlink - someone please fix this? (i don't know how)
Hi. I was reading some of this article today, and enjoying it, when I came upon a dead or empty link in this section: Michael_Schumacher:

Helmet
''Schumacher, in conjunction with Schuberth, helped develop the first lightweight carbon helmet. In 2004, a prototype was publicly tested by being driven over by a tank; it survived intact. The helmet keeps the driver cool by funneling directed airflow through fifty holes.''

This link no longer has content in it: However, I went to the internet wayback machine though and found a snapshot of the nice content that used to be there: http://web.archive.org/web/20070108220644/http://www.jeccomposites.com/composites-news/682/Even-a-tank.html. I'm sorry, I don't know how to fix this, that is, how to reformat the citation to include the archive URL from wayback machine. Can someone more knowledgeable address this please? Thanks! joepa T 18:23, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Reader feedback: how many childrens he have,...
82.15.101.153 posted this comment on 3 January 2014 (view all feedback).

"how many childrens he have, that's what I would like to know."

Any thoughts?


 * It's already in the article. Under Personal Life.  Dismas |(talk) 13:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2014


Lucer1983 (talk) 21:00, 17 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.  Pyrop e  23:02, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Links
>> Schumacher being brought out of coma(Lihaas (talk) 16:59, 30 January 2014 (UTC)).

date of his status
there have been several efforts to update the date of his status. i think this is wrong - we cannot go beyond what reliable sources report that his doctors say, and the last report was March 7. he could have died last week, right? Or two days ago he could have taken a turn for the worse, or have woken up altogether. we just don't know... interested in hearing other folks' thoughts. Jytdog (talk) 15:37, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * agree Wikipedia is not a news medium, but an encyclopedia based on reliable secondary sources of information. The application of automatic counters etc. is gimmicky and unnecessary. Just because we CAN doesn't mean we SHOULD... Regards, Lynbarn (talk) 16:21, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Of course. We can't report what we don't know via a reliable source.  --Drmargi (talk) 16:59, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * If we should follow all you guys logic then we should not "report" on Schumachers incident at all. And even less so about his health after the incident.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:02, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * If anything the current prose is misleading as it indicates that he is in a stable condition while all reports since then has been that he is getting worse and is highly unlikely to ever wake up or even less so recover from his injuries.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:03, 30 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't understand where you are coming from, User:BabbaQ. The accident definitely happened, was significant to Schumacher's life, and is very well documented in reliable sources.   If you have reliable sources on his current status, please provide them.  There are lots of rumors and speculations, but as far as I know his doctors - the most reliable source for information on his health status - last issued a statement on March 7. Jytdog (talk) 12:09, 30 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Jytdog's actions here have been contrary to Wikipedia policy. If BBC News considers a report noteworthy enough to give it prominent coverage, it more than meets the standards necessary for noteworthiness here. Jytdog needs to go and read the guidance at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability to correct his misunderstanding about this issue. Elroch (talk) 23:31, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

There are two separate issues here:
 * The March 7 update on Schumacher's condition, which a number of editors re-dated to whatever the current date was. Jytdog and several other editors were correct in reverting changes from March 7, the sourced date for the update.
 * Today's (April 4) update on Schumacher's condition, in which his agent, Sabine Kehm, indicates he has shown "moments of consciousness". In this case, Jytdog has erred in removing this content, claiming it is rumor, despite it being announced by a family representative and well sourced to highly reliable media sources.  We do need to verify what we post, no question.  We do not get to make judgments on the veracity of the primary source of that information to the degree an editor declares only Schmacher's medical team are suitable sources for updates reported by the media, particularly given they would be Kehm's source for her update.  The world sporting and news media are satisfied Kehm is able to speak accurately for the family, as is the role of an agent, and we have included other content disseminated in this way.  There's no reason to exclude this particular update, particularly on the POV basis that it's just rumor.  That's pure speculation on one editor's part.  --Drmargi (talk) 00:33, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Out of coma
"He was in the coma from 29 December 2013 until 16 June 2014", "By 16 June 2014, Schumacher had regained consciousness and left Grenoble Hospital".

Are you sure that the source material specify June 16th as the day he got of coma and not just left the hospital? And does it say that he regained consiousness? Awake and conscious are not exactly the same. We don't know anything about his awareness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.40.217.206 (talk) 09:35, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 June 2014
Please change "He has left the hospital in Grenoble for further rehabilitation at an undisclosed location. "

To: He has left the hospital in Grenoble for further rehabilitation at the University Hospital (CHUV) in Lausanne, Switzerland.

The BBC article actually states this, and it has been reported in many other news outlets:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/michael-schumacher/10902535/Michael-Schumacher-out-of-coma-live.html http://www.24heures.ch/vaud-regions/lausanne-region/approche-novatrice-chuv-soigner-michael-schumacher/story/16189238

Genomicsio (talk) 12:50, 17 June 2014 (UTC)


 * ✅ - DJAMP 4444  18:01, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

F1 Records
I think the table can be improved; it should include all records set by Schumacher at their highest point, not just those he still holds. It should also document what the previous mark was and who set that, and who reset the record if Schumacher has lost it. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 04:20, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Whether or not records which a driver previously held, but no longer holds, should be listed in the Records table has been discussed before (for both Schumacher and other drivers) and the consensus has been that only records the driver currently holds should be listed. But you are welcome to raise the matter for discussion again at the Formula One WikiProject. (Note that I suggest discussing it there because the outcome of the discussion will affect numerous articles, so it makes sense to have the discussion in a central place). DH85868993 (talk) 05:01, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * What of the other issue? Listing who held the record previous to Schumacher? -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 06:25, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If only the records the driver currently holds are listed then records held by someone else (before or after Schumacher held them) probably won't be listed. Britmax (talk) 07:48, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Typically the previous record holder is not listed in driver "Records" tables (see Sebastian_Vettel, Lewis_Hamilton as other examples), but this information is frequently detailed in the article text, e.g. "This meant that Hamilton broke Bruce McLaren's record of being the youngest driver to ever lead the world championship.", "This was Vettel's third consecutive championship, and at age 25 he became the youngest ever triple world champion, beating Ayrton Senna's previous record.", etc. But again, you are welcome to raise the matter for discussion again at the Formula One WikiProject. DH85868993 (talk) 06:53, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

ski accident
The initial reports were incorrect - Gérard Saillant is not his carer, the Grenoble staff are (he attended as a friend, and gave general comments to the press).

The accident occurred in a small off piste area between two pistes. (People tend not to think of such areas as unsecured, so it is a useful qualification).

He was rushed first to the local hospital in Moutiers, then to to the regional hospital for its specialist facilities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.3.255.103 (talk • contribs) 11:49, January 1, 2014 (UTC)‎


 * Yes check.svg Done Thanks, I have edited the page. Anything to add still? --hydrox (talk) 14:10, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

thats all, thanks, and thanks for the links you sent 62.3.255.103 (talk) 19:52, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

then on to a hospital in Grenoble specialising in brain injuries
The hospital where M. Schumacher is being treated is the public "regional university hospital" associated with Joseph Fourier University in Grenoble. This hospital treats a very wide range of ailments, by no means restricted to brain injuries. It is however true that, due to its location in the Alps, it has special expertise in the treatment of injuries resulting from mountain sports (e.g. ski in winter). David.Monniaux (talk) 15:26, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It was never intended to say that the hospital is brain injury only hospital. I've changed the passage to say "then on to a larger hospital in Grenoble, that specialises among others in brain injuries." --hydrox (talk) 15:45, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The article does not contain a link to the official accident report (by Patrick Quincy) as it should. I could not find it, can you ? TGCP (talk) 20:25, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

1997 coolant
About the 1997 championship, the article states that during the Jerez Grand Prix, Schumacher was slowing down due to a coolant problem, which allowed Villeneuve to close the gap. I have never read anything about a coolant problem. Where does it come from / what is your source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.182.154.14 (talk) 23:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Still no source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.235.90.50 (talk) 20:39, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * says coolant leak. I've added the source to the list of references. Joseph2302 (talk) 00:44, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Photo
I added a new photo down in the career section. I think it would also work as the infobox image. Feel free to comment. Zwerg Nase (talk) 23:37, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * If I could offer one criticism of the photo, it's that the brim of his hat is covering his left eye, unlike the standard infobox pic, where is face is more visible.  Zappa  SJS  Mati   02:00, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Infobox "races"
In the infobox, the item Races	308 (307 starts) appears. Can someone explain the discrepancy (it seems he took part in one more race than he started!) Thanks, Lynbarn (talk) 20:26, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Probably something to do with the 1999 British Grand Prix where he failed to make the restart, due to the injuries from his crash at Stowe. Britmax (talk) 20:56, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I'd agree with that. By "races", it (slightly counter-intuitively) means "Grand Prix meetings", therefore he was present at 308 races, yet only started 307 of them. The first start at the 1999 British GP was declared null and void, and he missed the second start as Britmax says. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:15, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * That article has him retiring. If this is in fact his one Grand Prix in which he did not start, it should reflect so there and the season article. If the first start was declared null and void, then the records should state this as a DNS. If they state otherwise, then it's a start and retirement, and this infobox would need to be changed. Twirlypen (talk) 05:41, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The assumption was wrong. His one DNS was the 1996 French Grand Prix. However, the above issue should still be looked into as to whether Schumi was recorded as starting the 99 British GP and retiring or not starting the race at all. Twirlypen (talk) 05:45, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * WP:F1 convention is that Schumacher's result in the 1999 British Grand Prix is "Retired" - see WikiProject_Formula_One/Disputed_results and the associated discussion. DH85868993 (talk) 06:01, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't read such a convention at all in that discussion. I see different opinions being raised with no consensus ever assessed. What's most worrying to me is that a group of wikipedia editors want to make their own definition for those kind rules. We have to obey the official rules. The official rules at the time dictated very clearly that if a race was red-flagged before the end of the second lap, the race would be restarted for the original distance and the previous "attempt" at starting it would be declared null and void. I have witnessed many races from the nineties and early noughties were this ruling was applied (I even attended one of them, Belgium 1998.). There should not be a dispute about the fact that Michael's GB result should be DNS (in all articles concerned) and he should have 306 starts instead of 307. His accident is treated as if it happened during the warm-up lap. Note that both F1.com and Forix support that. That is a very strong statement on what is the correct result. Another strong indication that that first start attempt was declared null and void is the fact that Villeneuve and Zanardi, who caused the red flag in the first place, were allowed to take part in the fresh start (in their original grid position). If it had been a mere resumption, they would have not been allowed to do so and would have been listed as retired after 0 laps. Tvx1 22:41, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that discussion showed a consensus for "Ret"; I said the convention (as documented atWikiProject_Formula_One/Disputed_results) is that all the related articles currently reflect the result "Ret". By all means let's discuss the matter further, and if a consensus emerges for "DNS", then we can update all the related articles (and the convention) accordingly. I have advertised this discussion at WP:F1 in the interests of gaining maximum input. For what it's worth, I would support a change to "DNS", based on the info at FORIX and formula1.com. DH85868993 (talk) 00:22, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I too would support DNS/306 starts, based on the rules and facts of the situation. The fact that VIL and ZAN were allowed to "restart" in their original positions is especially telling. Twirlypen (talk) 07:11, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The reason why I'm so puzzled about the "Ret" convention is that, according to the disputed results list there a considerable number of articles which have "DNS" for similar events. Furthermore the Disputed results list is desperately incomplete. If you compare with our List of red-flagged Formula One races, you'll notice that the former list misses quite a number of restarted races. Tvx1 18:41, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The reason we ended up with "Ret" in Wikipedia is that formula1.com originally say "Ret", so when the results table in 1999 British Grand Prix was autogenerated from formula1.com in 2004, that's the result which was imported, and subsequently disseminated to the other related articles. Some time between then and 2010, formula1.com changed their result to "DNS". You're correct about the incompleteness of the table - feel free to update it (or I'll get around to it eventually). DH85868993 (talk) 02:38, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I would be happy to do it, but I can't access all of the necessary results. F1.com has ditched its results archive since overhauling the site, I can't access forix, nor do I have access to a copy of Mike Lang's books. I'll give it a go though. Tvx1 14:06, 5 July 2015 (UTC)


 * ✅ I have added the missing races. While I was able to retrieve the F1.com results from the internet archive, I haven't been able to check the Mike Lang and Forix results. Tvx1 16:00, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks Tvx1. I'll update the FORIX and Lang results within the next 24 hours as I have access to both. DH85868993 (talk) 02:19, 6 July 2015 (UTC)


 * FWIW, here is a link to the official rules in 1999. Tvx1 01:29, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've advertised this discussion at Talk:1999 British Grand Prix, just in case any interested parties are watching this page but not this one. DH85868993 (talk) 13:54, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

OK, there seems to be a strong consensus to change the result to "DNS". If there are no objections within the next 24 hours, I'll update all the affected articles. DH85868993 (talk) 10:07, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've updated all the affected articles. DH85868993 (talk) 10:27, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Schumacher's accident in the opening
While the subject of his accident is covered at the bottom of his page, I believe it should be noted from the short two paragraphs in the opening that Schumacher was injured in a skiing accident in 29th December 2013.

Apavlides24 (talk) 13:31, 2 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I disagree with adding that information in the lead section per WP:RECENTISM. I think it is in the appropriate place now. Thanks, Bahooka (talk) 15:56, 2 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I have added a couple of sentences in the lead regarding this. It is clearly a highly significant moment in his life and biography, particularly as he remains in a coma 18 days after the accident. In fact there should probably also be a bit more about his personal life in the lead anyway - the usual convention is that any area meriting its own section in the article should be covered briefly in the lead. I'll leave that for now though... &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 23:00, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is the best place to note this, but here goes: the final sentence of the opening, which refers to M.Sch. being paralyzed etc. relies on a highly dubious source. A few weeks after these reports, which derive from Philippe Streiff, a self-proclaimed friend of the family, Sch.'s manager Sabine Kehm said the following: "Kehm emphasized that Streiff was not a friend of the family and that he also had no contact with Schumacher's wife or his medical doctor." ( http://www.focus.de/sport/videos/managerin-kein-freund-kein-kontakt-schumachers-zustand-die-drei-merkwuerdigen-aussagen-des-philippe-streiff_id_4371547.html, retrieved 7/18/15). Kehm has been the only reliable source since the accident, and she has handled all media inquiries in this regard. She has made a few generic statements about Sch.'s condition, but there are no specifics. I therefore suggest that the final sentence of the opening either be deleted or replaced by more reliable information. Parsifal12 (talk) 12:51, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Double infobox
Why does this Michael Schumacher page have 2 infoboxes, one for his racing career and one for his personal life? I cannot find another similar sportsperson with this type of page layout. I would suggest they should be merged together in the top right as with every other page that I checked. I searched for some prior reference to this layout in the talk page and found none. --Carrben12 (talk) 13:04, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Not F1 drivers, though they're race car drivers: Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson have it as well.  NFL  is  Awesome   (ZappaOMati) 16:01, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Lede too long?
The introduction is five paragraphs long. MOS:LEAD encourages just four, especially for newer subjects, like this one. There might be less relevant info in the lede, making a reader possibly doze off. --George Ho (talk) 08:58, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

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Updates
Anyone having any updates?94.234.43.11 (talk) 23:46, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

FYI: Discussion in the German portal about a retouched picture or a fake
We've discussed, is that picture a fake or not, and after long discussion in the German motorsport portal we've an aligned decision: The picture will not used further more in the German Wikipedia! This picture has been retouched to the point where it is not clear if it actually represents what it claims to represent. regards --Pitlane02 &#x1F3C1; talk 15:02, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Edited infobox image
Hello, I recently uploaded a new version of the current image that is used in the infobox. I rotated and cropped the file a little bit to have an image where Schumacher's head is straight-up and in the middle of the image. Would you say that this is a good replacement or is the current image just fine as it is? DaanTW (talk) 14:29, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I prefer the edited image outright. I can barely tell that the sharpness has gone so it is by no means a deal-breaker for me SSSB (talk) 17:04, 4 March 2021 (UTC)




 * In general I think you've had a good idea here. There is no reason why the image shouldn't be rotated and it does make it a lot more useful for the infobox. However, in the edits you've made the image has lost a fair amount of sharpness. Is it possible for you to rotate the image but preserve the crisp edges of the original? Pyrop  e  15:39, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You were right! I gotta say that I kind of overlooked the messy resolution, I just uploaded a new version of the file with a resolution of 1,496 × 2,020. Hope this one works! DaanTW (talk) 18:40, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that looks great. Nice work! I like that you've also tweaked the colour cast to make him look a little less like a tomato! Pyrop  e  20:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Consider it done! 👌 Thank you guys for your help and advice. DaanTW (talk) 21:32, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Weasel words
This page has recently been tagged with Weasel. This is a long article, can you please be more specific about where. SSSB (talk) 13:37, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I've removed the banner, because as you say this is not at all helpful in a long article. Concerns would be better expressed by identifying specific phrases using Template:Weasel inline. Pyrop  e  14:34, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Phonetic transcription
I don't know about the english phonetic transcription, but I'm very sure about the german pronunciation of Michael Schumacher. The "ch" both in Michael and in Schumacher are pronounced the same way. So for now one of the presented variation must be wrong. I have to do this. Witwe Bolte (talk) 09:03, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2021
In the intro, please change "He left hospital" to "He left the hospital". --194.105.229.129 (talk) 18:00, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * There is no reason to do this. "He left hospital" is a common phrase, particularly when there is no need to specify the specific hospital. Britmax (talk) 18:25, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ This may be some WP:ENGVAR thing, in which case it'll probably be reverted. I did check the source first to make sure there was no engvar called out. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:28, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * its not an Engvar thing. Both are acceptable in all forms of English, with the original (no "the") more common.SSSB (talk) 19:20, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I've never heard someone from the US say "left hospital" or "go to hospital." In my experience it seems to be an ENGVAR thing, and all sorts of unreliable sources on google seem to agree. That said, I don't really care one way or another. I assumed if someone had a problem with it they would revert, which happened, so all is well. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:27, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Jim Gaffigan even makes a joke of this. Funny but wrong. Not because the English made this language called English, but the American way lacks the capability of differentiating between a certain and some hospital. It might help that the German language makes the same mistake.I have to do this as well. Witwe Bolte (talk) 09:07, 17 June 2022 (UTC)