Talk:Michelle Smith (fashion)

“Official portrait”
Hi, thank you for your work brushing up this and related entries. I wanted to touch base about the term “official portrait”. To me it’s important to include because that’s how it’s recurrently characterized in secondary sources and I think without it, an important aspect of the significance may be lost to the general audience (which is, I would guess, also why so many sources use it. Even as someone interested in the topic, a portrait for a portrait gallery doesn’t sound to me like it’s nearly as important as this commission was.) Could we say “official portrait for the National Portrait Gallery” to keep the specificity that you are pointing out while retaining fidelity to the sources and conveying the significance to the reader? Innisfree987 (talk) 20:00, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, that seems fine to me; I've re-added the word "official" at least into the lead. As long as we don't use just "official portrait" without qualification (for reasons of specificity etc.), I don't think that should be controversial. FYI, I've also placed a report at WP:ERRORS about this same technicality in the article's DYK hook. —  RAVEN PVFF   · talk · 21:58, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , appreciate your flagging, I’ve replied there. Thank you for your collaboration on this! Innisfree987 (talk) 22:12, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Obama portrait unveiling

 * ... though Smith only learned of the final selection when the painting was unveiled at the National Portrait Gallery.: From WP:ERRORS for the article's DYK, I'm removing this as it's unclear from the source whether she was only learned about the use of her dress at the unveiling or she was just suprised that it was finally unvelied. The Washington Post just says "I didn’t know it was going to be unveiled today. Did everyone else know? Was I the last to know?” The source later says "The dress was chosen months ago, Smith says, ..." In an interwiew with Smith (not cited in the article), she seems to say she more overcome that the unveiling finally happened. "I worked with Mrs. Obama’s stylist, Meredith Koop, about a year and a half ago to custom design the dress, and I later received confirmation that she would likely be wearing it in the portraits. I was told to keep this news quiet, and as time passed and I became immersed in designing and running my business, the portrait slipped my mind! I was in Paris just after New York Fashion Week for Premiere Vision when the portrait was unveiled and I received the news. Although I knew this moment was coming, it was hard to believe until I saw it with my own eyes."—Bagumba (talk) 09:50, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , this relied on the way that Post story begins: “Designer Michelle Smith was standing in the middle of a jean shop in the Marais neighborhood of Paris when her publicist called to tell her that Michelle Obama’s official portrait had been unveiled at the National Portrait Gallery and the former first lady was wearing Smith’s dress in the painting.“ Seems straightforward to me. “Likely” in your source also in my mind confirms she wasn’t informed of the final selection, as the entry previously said. Innisfree987 (talk) 14:23, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I was originally reading it from the DYK hoook's perspective that she was surprised to learn that day that her dress was chosen." Looking over your explanation of the article (and not the hook), I can also see now your perspective of the "final selection" wording. I think for the article, it can be added that she was told beforehand that  it was likely her dress would be chosen, but she received final confirmation the day of the unveiling.  That would be in line with her saying "I knew this moment was coming".—Bagumba (talk) 15:34, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , thanks for taking the time to look over this. I’ll see if I can find a succinct way to add it all in—just don’t want this section to overwhelm the rest of the biography, especially since there’s a main entry about the painting. But I’ll tinker with it keeping these points in mind. Innisfree987 (talk) 20:46, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Just for completeness, at this point—in case this ever needs revisiting—here’s one of the other refs that informed that line and the hook. From this NYT piece cited in the entry: “Ms. Smith worked on sketches, adjustments and pulled the dress from her collection to keep it special, but still wasn’t sure it would be selected. ‘I had made coats for the second inauguration that weren’t chosen, so I didn’t think it was a slam dunk,’ she said.” Innisfree987 (talk) 00:49, 19 November 2020 (UTC)