Talk:Michelle Wolf

Lock to protect vandalism
Please check before locking to protect vandalism they’re already obvious errors on this page Pejcharat (talk) 18:58, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * If there are corrections that you would like to suggest, you may do so on this page. -- Ed (Edgar181) 21:56, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Corrections?
Ref18 should indicate Rotten Tomatoes and Ref19, Village Voice, shouldn't they? And maybe title, last name, first name? 2804:14D:5C54:A5B9:3558:2CB7:659D:8BB6 (talk) 01:30, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Note 4 cites the Philadelphia Enquirer. I believe it intended to reference the Philadelphia Inquirer. Avocats (talk) 01:45, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Jewish
Should be added to biographical section. https://jwa.org/media/michelle-wolf-2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.201.178.44 (talk) 14:02, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No, it shouldn't, because the blog post in which that image was featured actually refers to her as "non-Jewish". Every morning   (there's a halo...)  15:49, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hey .. You truly should sign your wiki posts/comments with the plain text, IntoThinAir; what you're doing is confusing and extra steps for readers. From Peter, aka Vid2vid (talk) 03:02, 13 August 2019 (UTC).
 * That was signed when my username was Everymorning. I changed it last year. IntoThinAir (talk) 03:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Hmm wasn't aware userID changes were possible or should be but ok. Strange that both the two links go to a User Page for IntoThinAir but whateva. Peace. From Peter aka (for now lol), Vid2vid (talk) 03:06, 13 August 2019 (UTC).

Classification as a 'comedian'
Many have criticized the classification of Michelle Wolf as a 'comedian', noting that what she delivered at the White House Correspondents dinner was little more than a thinly disguised political diatribe and partisan, abusive rant directed at Republicans she hates. Simply being paid by noted Democrat shows like the Daily Show and others does not grant one the title of a 'comedian'. Wolf would be better described as a political activist, polemicist, and Democrat operative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.34.71 (talk • contribs)
 * Reliable source(s), please? Every morning   (there's a halo...)  21:00, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Please notice that Michelle Wolf has delivered lines in the same act directed at the political establishment in general, and directed at the Democrats as well, albeit many less compared to those directed at Republicans. If one has ever followed her career, would know that she is a comedian and that she now has her own show.--Gciriani (talk) 21:30, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * She has done stand-up professionally, including an HBO special, that makes you a comedian. Isingness (talk) 22:26, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * She has an HBO special, an upcoming The Break with Michelle Wolf on Netflix, and has appeared Live at the Apollo (Series 12 Episode 14 in 2016), and comedian-based panel/game shows in the UK (8 out of 10 cats does countdown 8 out of 10 cats does countdown). She also did a five minute routine on Seth Meyer's show about 3 years ago. DeEpMaTh314 (talk) 01:06, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Many people are saying that concerns like this one don't deserve response. Maaaany people. StaceyEOB (talk) 01:38, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Given the recent politicization of major entertainment corporations, with noted Democrats Bill Maher, Sarah Silverman, & Amy Schumer funded by HBO, all supporters of Democrat candidate Hillary Clinton, receiving funding by these institutions is not qualification enough to be considered a "comedian". In fact, this trend would demonstrate the opposite. Many noted entertainers have been critical of the recent trend in the comedy industry towards political talking points, with SNL alums Dana Carvey & Rob Schneider both criticizing the program for promulgating Democrat attacks. It is reasonable to conclude that Wolf's performance and the specificity of her material at the WHCD was the nail in the coffin of the discussion as to whether she is a Democrat political operative or an objective, neutral entertainer, with her lone "joke" against Democrats being that they "do nothing", hardly a biting commentary. If Wikipedia allows this classification to stand, its' own impartiality will be in question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.34.71 (talk • contribs)
 * Just to be perfectly clear, if reliable sources describe somebody as a comedian, Wikipedia describes them as a comedian. If you can find reliable sources describing her as a "political operative", you can (maybe) include that in the article. Until you find that reliable source, please don't rant on talk pages. Your comments may end up being deleted as Wikipedia is not a forum for discussing your personal definition of the word "comedian" (talk pages are for discussing how to improve articles). --ChiveFungi (talk) 01:59, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Fox News calls her a comedian, Breitbart does too, even Infowars in a few places. ("Ideological" Scale) StrayBolt (talk) 04:44, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This is a thinner argument than the Emperor's New Clothes. If she works at stand up night clubs, takes a paycheck from those clubs at all mind you, and has a Netflix comedy one time show, i think it's 99,999% safe for her to keep the title of Comedian or Comedienne. Why is this even an unlocked Talk page topic?? From Peter, aka Vid2vid (talk) 03:11, 13 August 2019 (UTC).

Length of WHCD Appearance Section (DUE/WEIGHT issues?)
Hi, I reinstated the material that you removed here and here, as that is quite a bit of people's work at play here and clearly Wolf is most notable for the dinner. The controversy and reaction should absolutely be summarized in this article, but I think the question now is to what extent? I believe that the material was a bit excessive to begin with, but added some content to the criticism section as the support section was extremely lengthy in comparison. We should be mindful to stay true to DUE and WEIGHT policies, so do you have any specific suggestions to improve the existing section?

I see that you also just removed the reaction of the President of the United States to the dinner, which is another primary reason for the notability of Michelle Wolf. We really should discuss this here with other editors. Mr. Daniel Plainview (talk) 21:36, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It wasn't sourced; while it likely could be, re-adding would require an RS. And yeah, if an RS is used, the reaction should be there in some form. Isingness (talk) 22:23, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

I think it's also important that the reaction of the president be included. He is the president afterall. (DeEpMaTh314 (talk) 20:33, 3 May 2018 (UTC))
 * I see someone re-added the president's reaction and . I would think that it would be better to just put the tweet in, rather than going through Washington Post's entertainment page filter, first. That article says Trump watched the WHCD reaction on TV, but doesn't back up this claim at all. The material in this article also says the he personally watched the WHCD on TV, which isn't in the source. I say just leave it how it was originally: "President Trump also reacted to the dinner, tweeting that it was a "total disaster and an embarrassment to our great Country and all that it stands for" and added that "FAKE NEWS is alive and well." Source the tweet and be done with it, I say. We could put that business in about Wolf being "filthy" and how the dinner is "dead," but any more than that I think is undue and needlessly complicates the text. Mr. Daniel Plainview (talk) 22:40, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You're right. I read the article incorrectly. "When he watched it being talked about on cable TV the next day, he called several outside advisers to bash the comedian, saying she was unfunny and mean-spirited." He didn't watch the monologue...he was watching the reaction to it on TV. I've been locked out from editing it. Can you please update this for me? DeEpMaTh314 (talk) 00:45, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I also note that the section has grown even longer now, to mammoth proportions. Certainly we could trim this down? Mr. Daniel Plainview (talk) 22:42, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I prefer a third-party for the Trump reaction, but Twitter is fine for me as I think a primary source in this situation works. I am with you on the potential need for trimming as well. Isingness (talk) 22:50, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This is a bit of an editorial decision. Before I started to add the references to Trump's tweets, I checked that Wikipedia does not like to use citations to social media. But Trump's tweets are a bit of an odd thing because it is part of the official record as he is president. To satisfy both views of the tweets being an original official source and a third-party verification, I put in citations to both an article and the original tweet. (DeEpMaTh314 (talk) 00:29, 4 May 2018 (UTC))
 * That sounds sensible. Isingness (talk) 00:34, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Maybe we should consider creating a seperate article similar to the Stephen Colbert at the 2006 White House Correspondents' Dinner article? DeEpMaTh314 (talk) 00:40, 4 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Note Mr. Daniel Plainview has been blocked as a sock puppet of a community banned editor. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 15:48, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Early life and education
Doesn't seem very encyclopedic to mention something she is not, and the sources don't support the two claims, either.

Wolf is white, but due to her dark complexion she is sometimes mistaken for African American or multiracial. Who mistook her to be African American or multiracial? I haven't found any articles making either of those claims. I read that Slate blog post as a joke between Trevor Noah and Michelle Wolf (following the "outing" of Rachel Dolezal as white). According to this interview, she is a runner which probably accounts for the tan.

Although some in the media have categorized her as being of the Jewish faith, she isn't. Again, who did that? The reference is a Times of Israel article about the WHCA dinner. The last paragraph reads: "Wolf (who is not Jewish) was in Israel three months ago, when she appeared with Chris Rock on his Total Blackout tour in Tel Aviv." Pretty much everybody who visits Israel will be asked sooner or later whether he/she is Jewish, especially when you have a fairly common name for Israelis and Jewish and non-Jewish Germans and Americans. Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 15:07, 2 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I agree this material is pointless. (I made a correction to the original phrasing in the race comment to try make it less needlessly provocative—but frankly you are right, it should just be gone.) StaceyEOB (talk) 01:29, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I was undecided myself at first but both felt like insinuations of something, and the lack of reliable sources tipped the scales. Glad you agree! Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 15:05, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2018
Change "Trump watched the monologue the next day on cable TV," to "Trump watched the reactions to the monologue the next day on cable TV,"

This is in keeping with the article cited.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/trump-gives-thumbs-down-to-comic-who-roasted-his-spokeswoman/2018/04/29/e76290c2-4c22-11e8-85c1-9326c4511033_story.html

"The White House quickly sniffed an opportunity. Trump, who held a rally in Michigan at the same time as the dinner, asked aides for an update soon after leaving the stage. When he watched it being talked about on cable TV the next day, he called several outside advisers to bash the comedian, saying she was unfunny and mean-spirited."

Thank you. DeEpMaTh314 (talk) 00:52, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ Mostly. I just removed most of that because when/how Trump got his information isn't terribly relevant to Wolf. Cheers, -- irn (talk) 02:32, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Everyone?
The source says that Wolf delivered "harsh and stinging remarks about Democrats, Republicans, President Donald Trump's adult children, White House adviser Kellyanne Conway and White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders." That's not everyone, and naming everyone she named would make the quote too long IMO. I've removed it, pending further discussion. Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 06:30, 5 May 2018 (UTC)


 * If you read the source further, it had Howard Fineman saying "Wolf's 'blunt, crude, pitiless' act 'torched EVERYONE,' including Democrats, Stormy Daniels and the media." And the ALLCAPS "EVERYONE" came from Fineman. I have entertained collecting all that she made fun of, but then I would need to measure the number of times, or minutes, or depth of the burn to avoid showing undue. Maybe I will start the article, "List of everyone Michelle Wolf roasted at 2018 WHCD". This is one place where she goes after at least "all of you" (everyone in the room). StrayBolt (talk) 07:10, 5 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Mea culpa - I stopped reading when I got to Matt-average-citizen-"enough-of-elites-mocking-all-of-us" Schlapp, having watched him spar with Cuomo on CNN. For some reason, critics homed in on Wolf’s remarks on Sanders when her remarks on Conway, Ivanka Trump, and Pence, for example, were much harsher.  (Not biting the hand that feeds them, Sanders being their direct PoC? - couldn’t resist a bit of editorializing.)  I wrangled the first paragraphs into what I hope is more encyclopedic than before. "Roasted everyone in the room" might be worth considering because of Trump's notable non-mention but was that mentioned in any of the secondary RS? Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 14:46, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Abortion Jokes
What many on the Right find especially distasteful at the White House Correspondence Dinner is not just the remarks against Sarah Huckabee Sanders, rather her Crude ABORTION jokes, at the Dinner, and history regarding Michelle Wolf. The joke right after President Trump won the Presidency calling the President, "a racist fake gynecologist,” on "The Daily Show with Trevor Noah", (another disgusting comedian to people on the Right), was pretty disgusting. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/arts/television/michelle-wolf-white-house-correspondents-dinner.html Michelle Wolf, has also called Eric Trump an abortion.  https://ijr.com/2018/04/1090130-michelle-wolf-eric-trump-abortion/  What Michelle Wolf said at the White House Correspondent's Dinner that really was inappropriate to anyone that is Pro-Life was:  “Don't knock it till you try it — and when you do try it, really knock it. You know, you've got to get that baby out of there. And yeah, sure, you can groan all you want. I know a lot of you are very anti-abortion. You know, unless it's the one you got for your secret mistress.” https://ijr.com/2018/04/1090130-michelle-wolf-eric-trump-abortion/  This for anyone that is Pro-Life was very inappropriate, and completely lacking in the Wikipedia Article. Could it be due to Wikipedia becoming Leftist Biased?Easeltine (talk) 14:24, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


 * About the WHCD joke, Gretchen Sisson, a sociologist at the University of California — San Francisco said, “The joke isn’t about abortion, it’s about hypocrisy.” Wolf was probably referring to Rep. Tim Murphy but there are others. StrayBolt (talk) 15:40, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Material about the WHCD performance already makes up just under half of her biography. And of that the vast majority is about the controversy the performance generated. Was the abortion joke really a big deal? I see that you found an article in a small news publication made by Republicans, but do you have a WP:RS saying it was a big deal? --ChiveFungi (talk) 16:00, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Washington Examiner Called Caustic Routine  Governor Richards Daughter, and past President of Planned Parenthood says it isn't a thing to joke about!

Chive, Washington Examiner, Washington Post, NBC News, CNN, and USA Today. There were plenty of "Republican," or "Conservative" sources. I am referencing only "Democrat," or "Liberal/Left" sources that agree with the "Republican," or "Conservative" sources. Yes, it was a big deal, and is not in the main article.Easeltine (talk) 04:40, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The NYT and WaPo pieces and the Cecile Richards interview are totally irrelevant. CNN goes out of its way to mention that Richards did not criticize Wolf, and neither the Post nor the Times even mentions any criticism for her abortion jokes. Both the IJR and Washington Examiner pieces quote Matt Schlapp and Guy Benson. NBC also quotes Schlapp. And then you have Ben Shapiro, Gabby Morrongiello (who works for the Washington Examiner), and Caleb Hull (who works for IJR). Is that enough for a sentence? I don't know. Maybe something alone the lines of "Wolf's performance also upset conservatives by joking about abortion"? -- irn (talk) 14:33, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Not mentioned in NY Times, WaPo, Variety, The Atlantic, NPR, etc. w umbolo   ^^^  17:36, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree, this doesn't seem like a relevant addition to me. Isingness (talk) 17:38, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Sections "Early Life and Education" and "Personal Life," African American?
Hi, neither of her two biographical sections, e.g. her Wiki article's 'Personal Life' section mentions whether Miss Wolf comes from a biracial background .. does she? Thanks. From Peter, aka Vid2vid (talk) 03:00, 13 August 2019 (UTC).
 * Oop. March 31st, 2017 she told Slate magazine, "You know how I know I'm white .. ..?" (story here) .. Nevermind! From Peter, aka Vid2vid (talk) 03:22, 13 August 2019 (UTC).