Talk:Michiana/Archive 1

Definition
I have just now (November, 2004) removed two towns from the list of Michiana communities. I cannot believe that people in Chesterton or Beverly Shores consider themselves part of Michiana. I generally would not presume to speak for residents of other towns but at least I do live in the same county, rather than half a dozen away, and I do have friends in each town.

I realize that Michiana is not a clearly defined or definable concept. It overlaps with the Calumet Region / northwestern Indiana / Chicago's suburbs. I know that even some Lake County residents work in South Bend. I'm sure there are people in LaPorte County (for example) who hate Chicago and deny their being in any way connected to it, as well as that there are others there who hate South Bend and deny it having any importance for their area. I will limit myself here to simply excising Porter County from Michiana.

I think the best definition of Michiana is probably those cities that consider South Bend's TV broadcasts to be "theirs". Chesterton? No. Coldwater, MI? No. Edwardsburg, MI? Yes. Elkhart? Yes.

I'd also consider any of the counties that observe Central Standard Time (Jasper, Lake, LaPorte, Newton, Porter and Starke) to not be part of Michiana. By observing Chicago's time, that probably means they identify more closely with that region than anything else. --Jkonrath 17:47, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Origin
I just put a mention of the origin of "Michiana" in the article. This comes from a January 6, 2000 South Bend Tribune editorial entitled "Has 'Michiana' outlived its usefulness?". (Note that it will cost $1.95 to access) Mapsax 22:42, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Updating in good faith
Updated to include all of "Greater Michiana" and used the St. Joe County Chamber's definitions to differentiate between Michiana "proper" and the "greater" area. This is as close to an official definition as I've been able to find, and it seems reasonable. It emphasizes that Michiana "proper" is the closest counties to South Bend/SJC but recognizes that other counties lay claim to being part of the group, too. I lived most of my life in the area around White Pigeon, Constantine, and Three Rivers, up in St. Joe County, Mich., and I always considered myself part of Michiana. Our family identified with Elkhart and its environs as much as we did with Michigan, probably because we shopped in Elkhart and most of our family lived around there. I also commuted to South Bend for several years. Notre Dame was my favorite college football team, not U of M or MSU! And yes, we watched South Bend television stations.

The SJC Chamber's definition removes Pulaski County. That's the only alteration to the original list of 11 counties.

12 Sept. 2006

Updated population in opening paragraph to reflect the numbers as they relate to the SJC Chamber's definition of Michiana proper, as opposed to Greater Michiana.

11 Oct. 2006

--

Thanks for considering my comments.

The article needs a map. Pictures paint a thousand words. A non-detailed map with state-borders, just a couple of the biggest cities, and a coloration "generally" over Michiana would be sufficient to remind us of the geography around the Indiana-Michigan border.

WAUS-FM - Michiana's Fine Arts Radio Station, streaming at a respectable 128 Kbps. Load this touch of class into your Winamp 5.32 or Windows Media Player 9 -- mms://livestream.andrews.edu/waus-28

Best luck, Nei1, 8 Jan 07 --

Complaints
The biggest complaint I have about this word is not that it is used at all but how it is used. The local media uses Michiana far too often and inappropriately. The media generally say “a Michiana man was hurt…” when in fact they would be more correct in saying “a man from South Bend was hurt…”. I truly believe the use of the word by broadcasters is very unprofessional. It becomes sickening to hear it all the time! I think Indiana just wants to be part of Michigan because Michiana is rarely used in the Michigan side of the boarder. Also Michigan has no agencies or persons represented in MACOG, the Michiana Regional Planning Agency. KBTONKIN — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kbtonkin (talk • contribs) 16:46, January 23, 2007 (UTC) -- Actually, a few Michigan counties (not sure exactly which ones) used to be part of MACOG but withdrew and formed their own council. I am unaware of the reason for the split as well. And yes, the local media does say Michiana too much! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.132.121 (talk) 05:16, June 4, 2007 (UTC)

Blossomland
You are using original research to combine everything into one. The cite says Benton Harbor is referred to as Blossomland; not Michiana. Feel free to add Blossomland to the Benton Harbor article, but that cite won't fly for this one. Crotchety Old Man (talk) 18:03, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Any good references to use for the "Blossomland" name? I thought that the one I provided (http://www.hartfordmichigan.com/hartfordhistory/Precious%20Pearls/Blossom%20Song.htm) didn't use synthesis - selected quotes:


 * "That the Michigan Blossom Week song, extolling the beauties of blossom land, which was broadcasted from three Chicago radio stations and from Berrien Springs and was sung at the blossom pageant at Benton Harbor last week, was written by a Hartford woman was not known to many local people who 'listened in.'" (Hartford is in Van Buren County, listed as in Michiana; Benton Harbor and Berrien Springs are in Berrien, also listed)


 * "Music for the song was written by Mrs. Nate Simpson of Keeler" (also in Van Buren County)


 * [lyrics] "Oh! it's blossom time in Michigan...I can feel the lake breeze blowing" Lake Michigan is not specified, but it's the only logical lake in this context - lake breezes/microclimate is only a characteristic of the largest bodies of water, and the largest in the area is Lake Michigan.

I'm not sure if I can find another source with as much detail (I was hoping that there'd be something in the history section of the Blossomtime Festival website, but no mention), but the term definitely has been perpetuated in the area and is part of its identity (note Google search), so it seems notable. Perhaps my line of text can be restored with "" after it rather than the original reference for now? Mapsax (talk) 18:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Or just add it to the Benton Harbor page, like I said above. No idea how this relates to Michiana. Crotchety Old Man (talk) 18:54, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And yes, saying that Michiana is referred to as Blossomland, since Benton Harbor is referred to as Blossomland, and is in Michiana, is pretty much the basic definition of synthesis. Crotchety Old Man (talk) 18:58, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * "Blossomland" refers to the entire fruit belt portion of the region, not just a single community. (Note the different respective locations in the Google search I provided.) That would include most of Berrien County, as well as parts of Cass and Van Buren and arguably western Allegan. The most appropriate article to which to apply the name would be "Southwestern Michigan"; unfortunately, that article does not exist, with the representative counties split between the Michiana article and the West Michigan one. Michiana is a closer description to that swath of counties (West Michigan, as defined in the article, extends way too far north and east), and when limiting it to the Michigan portion, is fairly accurate (only the furthest inland sections of the Berrien/Cass/Van Buren cluster might not be considered as included). I suppose that a Southwest(-ern) Michigan article could be created, but it would overlap highly with the other two and therefore likely would not add enough unique information to warrant its existence. Mapsax (talk) 19:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC) [Edited] Possibly related, note that the home towns of the 2009 Miss Blossomtime Queen candidates and past Queens are scattered throughout the area, not just Benton Harbor/St. Joseph or even Berrien County. Mapsax (talk) 19:54, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I have repointed the Blossomland redirect to Berrien County, Michigan from Michiana until I/we can better define the location of Blossomland and find better sources. Mapsax (talk) 18:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

"The Southern Lakeshore"
I'm deleting this nickname; I've never heard it personally (I'm a native) and the only sources that I can find are this blog entry and this album review. Judging from those it seems to be Chicago-area derived; looking at the area itself, at least as identified on the article map, only a small portion is at the south end of Lake Michigan. The rest is either away from the lake or on its eastern shore. Mapsax (talk) 12:21, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Historical Sites
I updated the History Museum listing -- the name listed was one they haven't used in years. But the section itself needs work. The History Museum is not a historical site, per se. Copshaholm (the Oliver family mansion) is. But there are a fair number of other places that should be listed, just in South Bend, not to mention the myriad in the other areas of Michiana (which I always thought consisted of all the counties that made up the indiana/michigan border, but learned otherwise from this entry). Tippecanoe Place (Studebaker mansion) in South Bend, Bieger Mansion in Mishawaka, and Ruthmere (the Beardsley mansion) in Elkhart, for example, without even leaving the category of historic stately homes which can be toured. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.79.125.10 (talk) 07:57, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 23:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Objection to usage
Comments about the term being "misused" by the media, first mentioned here just over a decade ago above, really don't belong in the article since they are not WP:NPOV. I haven't found any reliable sources that state that people are tired of its overuse; in fact, the Detroit News article in the sources that I happened to find about a year ago states just the opposite, that people in the Michigan portion actually encourage its use. I know that various opinion pieces in the South Bend Tribune denounce the name, but, according to WP:NEWSORG, "Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces...are rarely reliable for statements of fact." The closest RSs that I can think of are articles stating that the Michiana Regional Transportation Center changed its name to South Bend Regional Airport because numerous people didn't know where "Michiana" was so assumed that South Bend didn't have an airport and instead flew into Chicago – in fact, two are used as sources in South Bend International Airport – but even that is regarding confusion over the name and not necessarily disdain or inappropriate use. Mapsax (talk) 15:39, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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