Talk:Michigan State University Spartan Marching Band

Revisions
This article is written a lot like a persuasive essay. It is most definately biased towards a positive outlook on this group and needs to be edited to be impartial. This article is not impartial.

Not all of the citations have links to where we can confirm this information. Also, one of the sources is from a WKAR off the record series which should not be used on this article considering that it cannot be confirmed.

I would also not include the big 10 flag corps and the color guard as a part of instrumentation. They are a part of the ensemble but they do not contribute to instrumentation.

Kibilos3 (talk) 22:31, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Major Revision
Thanks to AStudent for an excellent job on getting this page started. A made a few edits today. I'm new to wiki so I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes here.
 * Corrected the "instrumentation" section
 * Added the "facts & figures" section
 * Added detail to the "traditions" section
 * Added info box

Since this is a wiki page and not a full-blown website, I propose that we cut way down on the lengthy "history" section and eliminate the "bowl games" section (which is covered in one bullet under "facts & figures").

When I get a bit of time, I'll upload some pictures and sound files.

Brad Halls 04:49, 28 March 2006 (UTC)Brad Halls (SpartanBand.net webmaster)

Just FYI - you totally forgot about the color guard. We're just as much a part of the band as anyone else! :-D

Color Guard
If you're talking about the "instrumentation" section, I would tend to agree. Even though the color guard doesn't play "instruments", we should probably have everyone included here. So how many people are in the color guard "block" nowadays?

Brad Halls 17:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that the figures specifically relate to how many members are the in pregame block, since the size of the colorguard varies every year someone toss out a range ~30? 141.217.221.212 02:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I would not list the big 10 flag corps or the color guard as a part of instrumentation. Kibilos3 (talk) 22:23, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Traditions
Moved traditions into subcatagories, expanded other parts of the article further. Could use some more pictures, especially some of the higher quality, sunny, gameday pictures (silver, grass, and blue sky look wonderful!). AStudent 09:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Band Day
Corrected the section on Band Day, which stated that it "typically happened on Saturday mornings when there was an away football game." Not so. I marched in Band Day 1983-1987 (and SMB 1988-1991) and they were all home games — either early in the season when the SMB was not yet finished with Pre-Season, or later in the season to give the SMB a much-deserved week off. Kevin Forsyth 23:05, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I edited the section on band day as well. Previously, the article stated that band day ended in 1992, but I marched the final one in 2001. 71.65.0.226 04:45, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see a second source on that date. According to the Lansing State Journal, it was 1992.  Not that the LSJ is the best source, but in my opinion it beats an anonymous IP. Kevin Forsyth 00:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm AStudent, I began this article and I marched SMB from 2001-2005. My freshman year (2001) was the last year that they held band day in Spartan Stadium. In 2002, they reverted to Natural Grass and didn't want the extra wear and tear on it. It ended in 2001. AStudent 06:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Just some suggestions
It would be nice to have a "history" section near the beginning of the article, and have some references/cites on many of the claims made throughout the article. – Lordmontu  (talk) • (contribs) 05:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it might be wise to try to find additional sources for the article as well. There is only one source for the entire article, which seems a little suspect. Also, there are are many comments which appear to be boosterism and do not necessarily adhere to WP:NPOV. If they were sourced, it might not come across that way. In particular, I noted: The article reads well -- I think if you can source it adequately it will be a good article. Karanacs 18:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * "the 300 member SMB has since grown into one of the premier college bands in the nation."
 * "Membership in the Spartan Marching Band requires a tremendous time commitment"
 * "Gaining membership in the SMB is highly competitive"
 * "The Spartan Marching Band instrumentation of "all brass and sax" is unique to college bands in the United States"

The article would have an easier time in the present AFD if someone would fix the band website, which was the only source, and is broken. The last snapshot of it is from May 15, 2006, and apparently the university left it up to the band website to present all info about the band. The links in the copy of the website at Wayback do not work. Did MSU or the band forget to pay the annual fee for the domain name? Without it the history links are missing. I added some articles from the Detroit paper, but as is no one would know there was ever a conductor named Falcone. At a college library there is probably a clipping file which would allow a well documented historical section. There is also probably a history in the historical books about the college. Edison 22:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The article at the moment reads quite a bit like a course syllabus: I remember similar language being used in the syllabi for my band. In any case, such statements would better serve those browsing the band's own website. The various traditions are interesting, but the brief "Facts & Figures"—upon expansion—would itself be what I consider an ideal article. — Nahum Reduta [ talk | contribs ] 18:23, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * "Marching Band is a 1 credit "pass/fail" class (MUS 114) that students must pay to enroll in."
 * "All members are expected to have their music memorized by Thursday of the week of the game."

Failed GA
I'm failing this article for GA status. It's nearly completely unreferenced, and the Facts & Figures section looks like trivia and should be merged into the main article text and converted to prose. ShadowHalo 19:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Significance
I see no significance to this article. I think there should be a tag. Bassgoonist 18:48, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The Spartan Marching Band is highly visible at Michigan State sporting events, has published recordings, and was awarded the Sudler Trophy. It's very clearly not a canidate for speedy deletion. -- Upholder 19:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This has been discussed for many marching band pages, and I personally think there is really no significance. It only has one source, that isn't even accessible anymore. With only once source of info, a source published by officials of the organization itself, I really see no claim of significance. Bassgoonist 19:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a difference between being non-notable and the article not being completely sourced. Speedy deletion is not an option for articles that are about notable subjects where the article being sourced to the desired level.  Regardless, the AfD process will sort things out now.  -- Upholder 19:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Bassgoonist, rather than trying to delete an article about a well known college band because you don't like marching bands, how about looking for references? It took a few minutes to find dozens of articles in the Detroit News and Detroit Free Press, a few of which I added. Please read the Wikipedia polisies for deletion, and do not make unfounded nominations.  Edison 22:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I did read them, and I stand by my decision to nominate it for deletion. I have nothing against this marching band, or any other marching band for that matter. If you really want to call my intentions into question I would appreciate it if you'd do it in a more private manner than publicly trying to discredit me for no reason. Bassgoonist 00:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So how did that work out for you? 24.233.142.246 (talk) 06:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Claim of Advertisement
The recently posted tag citing this article for advertisement does not seem appropriate to me and I would question if this is just one of the typical things we see between folks from rival universities. On the other hand, it really needs to be sourced better - but that does not justify an advert tag. I would ask exactly what commercial purpose is being served and by which sections/text. If there are those whith answers to that question, I believe we will see corrections that follow (perhaps those so noting might care to make said corrections themselves?)--Rwberndt (talk) 12:15, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It has been one month with no comment on this matter. If no-one sees any commercial content and notes it here, or removes it themselves, I will delete the tag one month from now as inappropriate (I might replace it with a source tag though . . .)--Rwberndt (talk) 14:59, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, its ben well over another month and no-one has voiced any concern or justification for the tag. As it seems base-less, I am removing it as just a partisan sniping by some fan of some other school.--Rwberndt (talk) 12:24, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Removed the August 2015 advert tag after reviewing the article top to bottom and applying a few, select edits to address remaining "hot spots" of potential "puffery."ShoneBrooks (talk) 01:26, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

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Plagiarism and sources?
I found that a good chunk (if not all) of the section on Dr. Jon Weber was taken directly from the bio on the MSU faculty website. In general though, the sections on "Organization", "Gameday traditions", "Other traditions" and "Travel" have virtually no references or citations. Should the unsourced content be removed? reid.schneider 14:09, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, citations/references continue to be a source of criticism. This issue is being observed on many college marching band articles. Options for improvement (and clearing out the flag/s) include adding a reliable/verifiable citation/reference for each statement made (labor intensive and time-consuming) or deleting content without citations (for now) until it can be re-added with supporting citations/references (still labor intensive, but resolves the flag/s more quickly). If the latter option is chosen, it can be helpful to find, select, and document the sources to be cited ahead of time, and then only add statements backed up by those sources which can be cited easily because that homework has already been done. Remember, while remove might seem extreme and there might be fear of losing valuable, but unreferenced content, in reality that content remains available in the article's history and can be resurrected from that history once it can be cited. Verbose Edit summaries (during deletion) help make such retrievable easier. ShoneBrooks (talk) 01:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)