Talk:Michigan Technological University/Archive 1

Housing
There are no students at the Hotel now, this could be more accurately represented or removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.219.202.223 (talk) 05:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

The Ratio
"One favorite saying of Michiganders is "Michigan Tech, where the men are men -- and so are the women." This is in reference to the fact that approximately 75% of the school's students are men."

This quote bothers me quite a bit. Given, "the ratio" (3:1 male-to-female) is a huge topic of discussion at MTU, but this particular phrase is used rarely and is somewhat offensive. I'm replacing it with a more factual statement, let me know what you think. --Dcclark 05:37, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree it doesn't belong in the article but back in the day (as irreverent fraternity boys often will) we went further... "...where the men are men, the women are too, and the sheep are nervous!" Smile. (BS CS '83)  + +Lar: t/c 01:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Top Engineering School
I'm bothered by the lack of objective evidence offered to support statements like "top engineering school" and that the communications program is one of the best in the country. Please offer evidence or edit the passages.


 * While I don't have a Peterson's guide handy, here are a few links:
 * with quote "MTU has been recognized for academic excellence by U.S. News & World Report's "America's Best Colleges," which ranked MTU's environmental engineering and materials science and engineering curricula 11th and 12th best in the nation, respectively. Michigan Tech has also been cited by Money Magazine's "Best Buys in College Education," and Peterson's Competitive Colleges."
 * with quote: "Michigan Tech is rated among the nation's top sixty public national universities in the 2005 U.S. News and World Report's “America's Best Colleges.” and "Michigan Tech has one of the nation's largest programs in technical communication and has top ten programs in enrollment in environmental, mechanical, and geological engineering."
 * indicates that the STC (Communications) program is in fact the largest in the country. The "best" description has been included in recruiting pamphlets, which I'll find next time I visit.


 * I'll get around to editing up the main page and adding links, probably with more useful data, in a few days. Also, please consider signing in and signing your comments with four tildes. :) &mdash;dcclark (talk) 16:50, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

List of Majors
The alphebatized list of majors seems completely unnecessary, and only serves to lengthen the middle of the article. I can't find a similar list on other Universities in Michigan pages either. If I don't hear any argument, I'll probably remove it entirely and simply refer to some large programs -- we don't need to list everything that Tech students can major in! &mdash;dcclark (talk) 16:42, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Greeks
I removed a bullet point to the effect of, "Greek life is important at Tech, there is always a party going." That was obviously unnecessary, but Greek life IS quite active. If anyone can provide a list of useful info (say, Alpha chapters at Tech, events sponsored by Greeks, etc.) then we could add a section about Student Life and merge that in. Anyone got such information? &mdash;dcclark (talk) 16:46, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm currently attending ((BS CNSA)) so I should be able to get a copy of all the chapters on campus, and all the events sponsered. Additionally, I'll see if I can expand to make it a bit more "Student Life" instead of just greek life. Semi-Related: Carnival is coming up, does anyone think it would be appropriate to include a sub section about it? If so, I'll take my camera and try to get some pictures of the snow statues and things. ((I'd like to see MTU get to FA :) )) D1universe (talk) 20:38, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I've added a navbox with a list of all the current Greek Organizations at Tech under the Greek Orgs headline. I hope everyone approves.
 * &mdash;IcePenguin (talk) 05:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't navboxes go only at the bottom of pages, if they're inline (as opposed to a sidebar)? -- dcclark (talk) 12:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm fairly certain about the response, but what about Alpha Phi Omega, Mu Beta Psi? They're listed on the Student Organizations under greeks but not on here. And you say there are 13 fraternities but 14 are listed in the box?mhsenkow(talk)


 * I think there's a better way to do this. Check out Dartmouth College and note 1) what that section of the article says about Greek life – ours reads a little like an advertisement – and 2) the link to a separate page (Dartmouth College Greek organizations) about the fraternities and sororities at Dartmouth.  That's how it should be done.  Of course, it'll probably take years to get MTU's fraternity/sorority page up to that level, and in the meantime, we can start with something like Cornell's page (List of fraternities and sororities at Cornell University). —Zeagler (talk) 19:06, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The Dartmouth greek page looks like a conglomeration of individual organization page. Reading a few histories, it looks as if they're maintained by the individual societies. This could be done for Tech, but the current method removes the tendency to assume Michigan Tech is maintaining the information. The current approach (providing links to separate pages) is more rhetorically honest and should therefore be preferred. Wolfraem (talk) 03:44, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

World record attempt
I added an entry under history about the recent world record attempt. I will add the final counts once verification comes back from Guiness. I also added information about the controversy that North Dakota created about the record attempt. Feel free to move this information or edit it. --Bakkster Man 02:04, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks good, thanks for the update. I hadn't even realized there was a controversy. -- dcclark (talk) 04:53, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * My favorite quote from this whole thing: "North Dakota has a problem and it's called Michigan." --Bakkster Man 23:27, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Demographics
This quote: " The student body is approximately 90% Caucasian, 2% African American, 1% Asian and 1% Hispanic. " ... maybe a bit dodgy! What are the other 6%? Is there a cite for it? Thanks! + +Lar: t/c 01:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

There's a breakdown of the 2006 freshman class at that conforms to this -- the remaining 6% is about 1% Native American, and 5% multi/unspecified. 216.103.50.52 04:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

School Colors
The recent edit by 68.40.116.117 hilights a common misconception. Tech's official school colors are Silver and Gold. However, the de facto colors are yellow and black, since they show up better. Yellow and black are used everywhere at sporting and official events. Most Techies probably think these are the real school colors. I don't think we can reasonably exclude one set or the other, so I included both in the infobox. Objections, suggestions? -- dcclark (talk) 18:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the way it's dealt with now is good. Good work.  --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 02:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

K-Day
I changed a recent addition about "K-Day" originally being "Keg Day". This is true, but as you can find out fairly easily (here, for example), it wasn't a university-sponsored event when it involved actual kegs. The university actually was fairly clever in making K-Day official, since that made the (university-related parts of the) event "dry" as well. -- dcclark (talk) 13:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If there's a cite for it being called Keg Day at one point, I'd support putting it back in as it adds historic flavour to that section. In my day the (semi?) official name (IIRC) was "Keeweenaw Day" but everyone knew it meant kegs and kegs, and called it K-Day... ++Lar: t/c 14:55, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The information about "Keg Day" is still in the article. I just removed the bit claiming that the university actually supplied kegs to students. That I can't find a reliable cite for. And yeah -- it's still "Keweenaw Day". :) -- dcclark (talk) 15:09, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * K-Day actually started out as a school sponsored event and didn't have a bunch of drinking. It was intended to let the staff and students get to know each other while taking a break from classes and enjoying the beauty of the Keweenaw.  Alcohol showed up a few years later and the perception as "keg day" didn't start intil 7-10 years after the event started..   The university never supplied kegs (the frats did this) but the event was always official (hence the half day of no classes.  The ban of kegs (and eventually alcohol) was caried out by the DNR, who imposed a one day ban on alcohol at the park, partially due to a university request.  Unfortunately I can't provide sources for my knowledge as it all comes from a bunch of newspaper and other clippings (I recently did a research paper on the subject)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.5.64.222 (talk) 20:23, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Student Life
I just did a major rewrite of student life, please let me know if it was too drastic. Some of the things I'm still trying to decide are if I should include a list of the fraternities and sororities, and also a link to a constitution of one of them, to note the membership requirements difference. Additionally, I'm planning to write up sections on the major special activities, and will be taking pictures at the winter carnival this year to display the snow statues.

Again, let me know if this was too drastic. D1universe (talk) 00:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, I'm planning on adding in a section about broomball, and would like to expand the section about the residence halls to include some history about them, and some statistics on their capacity and what not. Again, when the weather gets better ((Next fall, for those of you who have been here before, :-) )) I'm hoping to get some campus pictures. D1universe (talk) 00:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Awesome! At first glance, I like the additions. Some research on the history of the university and residence halls would be great. -- dcclark (talk) 01:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The list of Student Orgs continues to grow over time. It would be nice to be able to settle on what the notable ones are, realizing the difference as seen from within and from the outside of the University and community. Coledj (talk) 18:36, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Wmtu.gif
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Fair use rationale for Image:Michigan Tech ath.png
Image:Michigan Tech ath.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Broomball
Broomball at Michigan Tech was recently redirected after an AfD discussion. Some comments proposed adding a couple sentences here about it. Knock yourself out. -Phoenixrod (talk) 15:29, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Citation Issues
This article contains many citations at are serving as directory assistance to Michigan Tech's website, instead of citing information. As I understand, Wikipedia is meant to serve as an encyclopedia, not a directory to an external website. I'm in the process of properly citing many of the article's claims, removing old claims with not valid reference, and removing citations that are just directory assistance.

ColdTree (talk) 16:28, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Advertising
I'm concerned that the article is serving as an advertisment for Michigan Tech rather than an encyclopedia article. Many of the claims are uncited.

The College of Buisness section is particular troubleing.

"The distinctive Tech MBA Online provides all of the benefits of an on-campus program—accreditation, curriculum, networking, and professional development—and the convenience of distance learning. The Master of Science in Applied Natural Resource Economics prepares people with good analytical skills for work in natural resources and related industries."

Significantly larger than the other college's discriptions, this read more like an advertisement for the program. There are many opinions like the one above with no claim. I'm rewrite/remove these sections to make it sound more factual and like an encyclopedia.

ColdTree (talk) 16:37, 24 June 2011 (UTC)


 * If you have the time and inclination, you could also do a quick search to see if those materials are copyright violations. In my experience, the most positive and glowing text in obviously-POV articles is usually copied straight from the subject's own website.  I don't know if that's the case here. ElKevbo (talk) 16:51, 24 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I have been keeping that in mind too because I have seen it. I will try to fix the copied material as I go.  I'm going to slowly work my way through the article to correct both of these things. ColdTree (talk) 17:16, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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Proposed Change to Student Body Section
To: "The University has focused on achieving a more diverse student body, faculty, and campus community through establishment of an assistant to the provost for academic inclusion and equality, a Tech Forward Diversity and Inclusion Initiative, and establishment of a University vice president for diversity and inclusion; the candidate search began in 2019 and in 2020 an interim VP was named." --Mrross14 (talk) 12:51, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Change: "The university has recently focused on achieving a more diverse student body, in terms of ethnicity, gender, and areas of study."
 * Explanation of issue: provide more updated information and details about steps taken to achieve a more diverse student body
 * References: https://www.mtu.edu/diversity/council/, https://www.mtu.edu/diversity/techforward/, https://www.mtu.edu/ttoday/?issue=20200623#michigan-tech-appoints-interim-vice-president-for-diversity-and-inclusion
 * ❌ I removed the The university has recently focused on achieving a more diverse student body, in terms of ethnicity, gender, and areas of study. because it seemed like a blurb and it didn't have any secondary sources, making the request moot. Also, from your userpage can I assume that you are being paid for your edits? Thanks &thinsp;Darth&thinsp; Flappy   '&laquo;Talk&raquo;'  19:37, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Proposed Change to 4.5 Traditions, Bullet 2: Homecoming
--Mrross14 (talk) 20:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Change: “Homecoming has happened on campus each fall since 1929. Current and former Huskies show their school spirit—and crazy smarts—with football and cardboard boats.”
 * To: “Homecoming has happened on campus each fall since 1929. In addition to the football game, the celebration features the crowning of the homecoming royalty, a cardboard boat race featuring dozens of boats, competitive challenges, and many other events that promote Husky Spirit.”
 * Explanation of issue: The tagline “crazy smart” was discontinued by Michigan Tech due to the negative connotation of “crazy” as pertains to mental illness. We would like to remove it from our Wikipedia page in accordance with this decision.
 * References supporting change: https://www.mtu.edu/student-leadership/traditions/homecoming/
 * Mrross14, thank you for drawing my attention to this. I agree with you that the word "crazy" should be removed – in addition to the possibly negative connotation you have identified, "crazy smart" is an informal colloquialism that diminishes the formal tone this article should have. Instead of following your suggestion, I have rephrased the sentences entirely. There are two reasons why I cannot accept your wording. First, Wikipedia aims for a dry, neutral style of writing, but your suggestion has a promotional tone. Second, your wording was directly copied from the Michigan Tech website you cited. This raises copyright issues (unless you grant us permission to use the text, which requires a whole series of bureaucratic confirmations) so it is easier to just paraphrase. Best, Altamel (talk) 02:54, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

"Controversy" section (Senate resolution and faculty responses)
Alright, lets have the discussion here in talk instead of just edit warring until we all 3RR ourselves. I've removed the section again due to the original adding user having been banned for the addition, and for the WP:BLP concerns. This seems like the reasonable solution until some kind of consensus is reached. Tagging all involved so far: MTUAlumni, ElKevbo, DanCherek, Two Hearted River, RandomAlumni, Beckemgee

Summary of edit comments on additions:


 * Added a controversy which occurred in January


 * Added the controversy back in, added more secondary sources. But also WP:BLPSELFPUB


 * An event which is likely to shape the structure of a university's future student and faculty body is worthy of record. Recentism would mean the article is almost entirely recent event based, which as a subsection of the greater article, this is not.

Summary of edit comments on removals:


 * WP:DUE and WP:OR issues; please cite independent, reliable sources that substantiate this controversy


 * WP:BLP demands high quality - independent, reliable, and secondary - sources for allegations related to living people


 * removed trivia - in the grand scheme of things, this dustup isn't worthy of encyclopedic coverage; see also WP:RECENTISM


 * Absolutely recentism and non-notable for encyclopedia.

So, we have a dispute primarily on Notability and due weight, along with disagreements on the way any content that remains is presented (source consideration, WP:BLP concerns with the faculty involved). Let's hash it out. Bakkster Man (talk) 21:36, 12 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for starting this discussion!
 * It would be helpful if those advocating for the inclusion of this information would provide reliable, independent sources that substantiate not only the underlying facts but also that this is a noteworthy controversy. It would be particularly helpful if those sources made credible arguments that this controversy is notable in a very broad sense with long-term implications for the university (this would address concerns about recentism). ElKevbo (talk) 21:43, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Despite my being frustrated with the two faculty responses and agreeing with the Senate resolution, I struggle to find the content worthy of notable inclusion in an encyclopedia article. It's more suited to news, and I struggle to see the argument that this is of such importance it will "shape the structure of a university's future student and faculty body". I'd suggest it's most likely to be forgotten within a year, making its inclusion here inappropriate as it wouldn't pass the WP:10YEARTEST. As evidence, I suggest the Yik Yak threat controversy from 2016. An event on a similar topic, of similar apparent magnitude when it happened, forgotten and unmentioned here less than 5 years later.
 * If, on the other hand, there's enough reasonable secondary sources tying these (and possibly other) events together into some form of sustained, long-term controversy on the topic of race unique to MTU, then it may be notable enough to include here. Otherwise, this seems to be a non-notable tempest in a teapot. Bakkster Man (talk) 22:04, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed. A distillation of the broader topic may amount, in ten years, to a sentence in the History section along the lines of, "The university took actions A, B and C in the 2020s that resulted in X% increases in [group] student/faculty representation." Including the names of the people who pushed back, or discussing the "controversy" generally, accomplishes nothing. I refer editors to a dispassionate two-paragraph summary of the University of Michigan's affirmative action admissions policy, as included in the History section of that page. Notice that zero names are mentioned (except in SCOTUS case names and a superfluous mention of George W. Bush's position). Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 22:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd argue that people are becoming more aware of social issues with institutions these days and are looking for this kind of information. Especially in light of the University claiming to be taking steps to improve these problems. Public accountability and historic accountability are important. There are at least 6 known lawsuits against MTU since 1989 as of 2017 when Dr Sara Amari sued for discrimination based on race. Hiding these problems and attempting to brush them under the table serves its own political narrative in hiding the facts. The UP has a problem, MTU included, and not talking about it does as much damage as perpetrating it does. I'm ashamed that you can be presented with factual sources, including documents from the men themselves, and still turn a blind eye to history. The 90s court case where they fired a public safety officer for being a woman? The Amari case, there was a case in the 1970s where a gentleman was forced to quit because he was of Asian descent. If institutions aren't held accountable for their history, they're doomed to repeat it. I would like to also point out that the University pointedly did not report several hate crimes in 2006, and I can prove that, that had a horribly negative impact on the community. Wouldn't you want to know this kind of history and information going into a learning environment? RandomAlumni (talk) 23:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not interested in hiding or dismissing any of these items (I'll repeat, having had a class with Prof. Burl, I was highly disappointed by his comments), only with presenting them appropriately for an encyclopedia (or not, if they don't meet the content guidelines). Rather than focusing on only this incident, while the Yik Yak incident (and multiple other, potentially related lawsuits) goes unmentioned, it would make more sense to discuss the topic as a whole if notable secondary sources can be found and the topic presented in a WP:DUE and WP:NPOV way. I'm very in favor of adding this information, if secondary sources can be found (lest we violate WP:NOTADVOCACY and/or WP:NOTSCANDAL). I agree that there's something here being struggled with from both sides, but I don't think we can put that narrative together ourselves without violating WP:SYNTHESIS. Find a secondary source that does make this case (ideally several, from multiple viewpoints) and I think it may make a very noteable addition to the article. Bakkster Man (talk) 23:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I wanted to share the one wider ranging story I found on this topic. If this is a topic anyone feels is important enough to conclude and can find enough other articles pointing to notability, then it may make sense to add. Bakkster Man (talk) 17:35, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Six lawsuits in 28 years is probably atypically low for a university like Tech. I just did a quick Google search for lawsuits at Missouri S&T, an institution similar to MTU in size and focus, and found three 123. Societies slowly change over time, institutions slowly change along with them, and there are always bumps in the road. It's not particularly interesting to the reader to know how a given university has recently dealt with racial issues, or LGBT issues, or its climate footprint, or free speech, or whatever today's hot-button political issue is, unless perhaps it is doing it in a way that is attracting wide attention over time. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 23:51, 12 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Hmm, Bakkster's ping to me didn't go through for some reason but I still found my way here! I agree with Bakkster Man and Two Hearted River's points above. To alleviate the sockpuppetry concerns in the edit history, I'll additionally clarify that MTUAlumni was softblocked earlier for username policy violation and was invited to create a new account, so no block evasion here. Best, DanCherek (talk) 23:36, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the clarification. Bakkster Man (talk) 20:07, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Updates to People section
Greetings fellow wikipedians

I have updated the Notable Alumni section to encompass notable people so faculty can be included per [|College and University Article Guidelines] Guidelines as part of my work as Michigan Tech's WiR CynMTU (talk) 20:24, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Please do not edit this article directly; you have an unambiguous conflict of interest. ElKevbo (talk) 20:36, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

I have updated faculty list to include notable faculty as part of my work as Michigan Tech's Wikipedian in Residence, which is deemed acceptable Read Conflict_of_interest But please if you find any issue with an edit I make, I welcome your feedback. CynMTU (talk) 17:36, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Declaring yourself a Wikipedian-in-Residence does not relieve you of your obligations to follow policies such as WP:COI and WP:OR. If you have the resources of a university, I strongly encourage you to use them to edit articles where the university has significant expertise, not articles that promote the university itself. ElKevbo (talk) 00:12, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

I have added notable alumnus Martin Lagina CynMTU (talk) 20:41, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

I did a little more alphabetizing. KayakChickee (talk) 18:55, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

I added more info on the main page: a paragraph about student enrollment, graduation rate, and student-to-faculty ratio based on current MTU stats. Another paragraph about the Ford Center, Fall Camp and the sawmill museum. And another paragraph about Tech being a research university. Husky1986 (talk) 23:27, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

I added Svitlana Winnikow to the Notable persons section - Faculty (first woman professor)Husky1986 (talk) 21:06, 31 March 2022 (UTC)