Talk:Michigan Wolverines men's basketball/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

I'll start off by saying I'm not particularly a fan of the article in its current form. However, there is certainly a GA article bubbling under so I'm prepared to put it on hold rather than fail it. However, I won't do my usual full review at this stage, but make some initial comments.


 * Lead
 * Don't wikilink the bold title per WP:LEAD
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:03, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Emdashes should be unspaced per WP:DASH
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The current season link is a redlink. It doesn't seem to make sense to have such a current season link not actually exist.
 * I hid the current template. The season starts in October or November.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:08, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The lead is very long compared to the text length of the actual article. However, it does I suppose meet the WP:LEAD criteria for length.
 * Compared to the text prose, it is long. Compared to the information content, it is not so long, IMO.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:09, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a lot of stuff in brackets in the lead. If it's worth a mention, especially in the lead, it is surely worth mentioning fully, rather than as an aside in brackets.
 * That should be a lot better.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:25, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * History
 * While the internal structure era-by-era seems an obvious choice, it gives the appearance of a stub-like section, which really shouldn't be the case for GA articles. I would suggest either rmv each sub-section, re-arrange the sub-sections or expand each one.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:31, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Again lots of brackets
 * ??--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:32, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Players
 * Needs dashes rather than hyphens
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A poor list overall. It doesn't seem to have any explanation
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Postseason
 * Not sure why this section can't be merged into the history section? Is there any reason for it to be stand alone?
 * This section is more tabular summary of post seasons, while the history section is prose. The history describes regular season records and accomplishments as well.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * General
 * I keep seeing * s but not sure what they refer to.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:50, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't wikilink sub-section headings.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Check on dashes.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll either let you answer each point here, start to clean up the article or wait for other guidance. But for the time being I'll put it on hold. Peanut4 (talk) 00:32, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Re-review
Following the first round of changes, I can see that while I think this could quickly reach GA, I think it would be better for me to fail it, and for you to work on the changes without the duress of a formal GA process. I think there's a lot to do, and would perhaps suggest a peer review to try and get more than one person's input. However, I will give me usual full GA review. Just use it to improve the article if you want and an early version of a peer review.


 * Lead
 * There are still too many phrases, or notes, in brackets. It breaks up the flow, particularly in the lead, too much.
 * I will clarify a few things.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:39, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "The Wolverines play home basketball games at the Crisler Arena in Ann Arbor, Michigan on the UofM campus." potentially change to university campus, for the same reasons for flow in the lead.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "that the NCAA described as the biggest financial scandal in its history," I presume "its" refers to NCAA rather than the University of Michigan?
 * fixed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:39, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * History
 * This is one of the biggest reasons I think the article needs extra input. I stand by my comments that the postseason section could be incorporated here. I might be right or wrong, which is why I think it needs extra input. I also think the internal structure isn't the best use and makes the article look very stubby and incomplete. The section also jumps from coach to coach, without explaining much in the way of their appointments, tenures coming to an end or any crossover between coaches.
 * Detail is limited in the early years. When available (such as Mather's death) it is included for the most part.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:31, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "As a result of public and alumni demand for a basketball team, Michigan fielded a team of members of the then-current student body and achieved a 1–4 record." When was this?
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "However, after three years of demanding a basketball program the student did not attend the games and the program was terminated due to low attendance." Either needs to be students or student body.
 * Correct.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "The teams finished 6–12 (0–10)." This seems incorrect to me.
 * Switched teams to team and clarified.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "The team was coached by Elmer Mitchell who instituted the intramural sports program at Michigan." Shouldn't this come before the team record? Perhaps even combine the two sentences for a much better flow.
 * Rearranged.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:31, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "He earned 1st(t), 3rd and 2nd(t) finishes during his three seasons," What do the (t) notes mean?
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Veenker continues to be the only coach in school history to win a conference championship in his first season in which the team compiled a 13–3 (10–2) record." Either needs a comma after season, or breaking up the two clauses. Currently the sentence says Veenker was the only coach to win a championship with a 13-3 record in his first season.
 * rearranged.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:36, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Although the highlight of Franklin Cappon's tenure was a 16–4 (9–3) third place 1936–1937 Big Ten finish," Needs a re-write to clarify what this means.
 * fixed all records.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "McCoy became the second former All-American Wolverine player to later coach the team." Later doesn't quite fit right with the way you have written this. I don't think you even need the word at all here.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "He coached Michigan's first All-Big Ten basketball players that season in Pete Elliot and captain Bob Harrison (both first team)." I'm confused by the bit in brackets.
 * fixed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:04, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Bill Perigo took over after having served three seasons as Western Michigan coach. Despite previous success as with conference championships at Western and subsequent success as a Michigan High School Athletic Association (MHSAA) champion basketball coach, his Michigan teams endured several mediocre season." Both sentences have clumsy phrases.
 * Not sure what you want, but I have fixed it somewhat.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:29, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Bill Frieder, who had been an assistant coach for seven years, eventually coached back-to-back conference champions and the schools first post-season champion." Do you mean eventually coached the team or eventually coached back-to-back champions? If the latter you need to talk about the start of his coaching career first.
 * How is it now?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:48, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Scandal
 * "The program was punished for NCAA rules violations, principally involving payments booster Ed Martin" Don't need to explain who he is again. Just call him Martin on subsequent mentions.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:17, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "It is one of the largest incidents involving payments to college athletes in American collegiate history." You say "one off". Can you be more specific at all?
 * The greater detail was at the dedicated article, but I added it here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:38, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "During the investigation, Webber claimed not to have had any financial relationship with Martin, but eventually agreed to confess to having borrowed some of the money he was charged with having borrowed." Bit clumsy towards the end.
 * Reorganized with more detail.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:20, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * General
 * Check for incorrect hyphens and replace with dashes. Scores and seasons particularly should use dashes, but there are other examples. See WP:DASH.
 * O.K. found some more.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Differences in style of seasons, e.g. 1920–1921, 1992–3.
 * I think I got them.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * Peanut4 (talk) 23:36, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * Peanut4 (talk) 23:36, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Peanut4 (talk) 23:36, 23 August 2008 (UTC)