Talk:Mick Jagger/Archive 2

Marianne Faithfull
Marianne Faithfull is mentioned in "Personal life", but her name is not linked to her Wikipedia page. ZepolXela (talk) 13:00, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. Her name is linked much earlier in the article, but it seems reasonable to repeat it here, per MOS:REPEATLINK.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:04, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2023
Mick is a keen Arsenal FC fan Kevindalvin (talk) 04:11, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:52, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Caps at start of a sentence
I appreciate what you've done with your edits but had one question: why did you lowercase the capital at the start of a sentence? I wanted to reach out rather than immediately changing it in case I'm missing something here. The SandDoctor Talk 15:00, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for your gentle message. That was definitely my error. No excuses! I've now fixed it. Thanks for the great article! JennyOz (talk) 16:16, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * All good! Thank you for the quick correction. I was being honest when I said that I do appreciate the tweaks that you've made. Thank you for the compliment! It was quite the task to get this up to FA standards and I am glad that I was able to get its slot secured to correspond with his 80th birthday -- a milestone, even numbered year. My next hope is to nominate The Rolling Stones and get it up to the standard (I just haven't had the month-long timeframe available that's needed). I've tried nominating it previously when I was new here and it didn't go terribly well, but the article is in far better shape now. If you would like to help with any copyediting there, you're more than welcome. I have a draft of a nomination statement written in my sandbox.  The SandDoctor  Talk 19:00, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yep, I'm happy to have a look and see if there's anything I can contribute. JennyOz (talk) 07:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Could you actually help me out here? I am really torn on the last sentence of the lead. I think that it could be right but also reads like a potential grammar error (where I bolded). What are your thoughts? "Jagger is credited with bringing a style and sexiness to rock and roll and with being a trailblazer in pop music that have been imitated and proven influential with subsequent generations of musicians." -- The SandDoctor Talk 19:19, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I see what you mean with have/has. The "that have" is for the plural "style and sexiness" whereas the intervening singular "trailblazer" makes you think "has" may be more correct?
 * Two rough suggestions:
 * Jagger is credited with bringing a frontman style and sexiness to rock and roll and with being a trailblazer in pop music that have who has been imitated and proven influential with subsequent generations of musicians.
 * Jagger is credited with being a trailblazer in pop music. His frontman rock and roll style and sexiness have been imitated and proven influential with subsequent generations of musicians.
 * Over to you! JennyOz (talk) 07:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you. That served as some inspiration! The trouble is that the full quote isn't talking about his "frontman" style. The full quote is here. "Would we even have rock stars without Mick? In the early ‘60s, Jagger’s swagger brought a style and sexiness to rock music that he built on for decades, from “Paint It Black" to “Start Me Up” and from "Get Off of My Cloud" to “Emotional Rescue.” Fifty-plus years on top makes the Stones the rock and roll band and Jagger the rock and roll frontman."
 * For now I've flipped the sentence around and that feels a bit better. Now reads "Jagger is credited with being a trailblazer in pop music and with bringing a style and sexiness to rock and roll that have been imitated and proven influential with subsequent generations of musicians." The SandDoctor  Talk 13:31, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks good! JennyOz (talk) 15:14, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Reductions to the lead
Hi, I like what you did with the third sentence of the lead but why are you repeatedly cutting detail out of the rest of it? The lead is supposed to summarize the body of the article and the lead (pre your edits) is the lead that passed WP:FAC to land on the front page. That isn't to say that it can't be improved or is immutable, but drastic changes with reduction in detail should really be discussed first. The SandDoctor Talk 15:03, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @TheSandDoctor I did remove the second mention of his solo career, and I don't see the need to mention his solo career more than once in the introduction. I also got the first part of that third sentence from the then-second paragraph, where I didn't feel it should be so I moved it to be with the first mention of his songwriting partnership with Keith. Other than that, all I remember doing is separating some parts into new paragraphs and also re-wording some bits. Zade Scrivner (talk) 15:19, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Founding, Not Founder
Change "founder member" to "founding member". The article says that he is a founder member, which uses a noun as an adjective. That is acceptable and common in English, but for that particular phrase, the participle form is always used. At least that's the way it's always spoken in the U.S., where I live and grew up. If the alternate form is common in England, then I'll defer to Mick's homeland. Otherwise, I think it should be changed. (I'm too new to make the change myself, due the semi-protected status of the page.) Crossaw (talk) 03:59, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Agreed with the above. I cannot edit the article to have the correct grammar within this framework. --Braveasanoun (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 05:06, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: "founder" is proper British English (see MOS:ENGVAR) and this article follows British English spellings and grammar because Mick is British.  The SandDoctor  Talk 05:09, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Please see my reply above. The SandDoctor  Talk 05:10, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * See here and here - both saying "founder member" is a noun. Also see founder member. JennyOz (talk) 07:12, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for linking that, ! The SandDoctor  Talk 13:38, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This article is written in British English, which has "founder member" as the appropriate noun. This article should strictly comply with British English. Please revert your edit. The SandDoctor  Talk 15:57, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * does the word "founders" not exist in british english? -- FMSky (talk) 15:59, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * You are correct that "founders" is a word in British English, I was thinking more along the lines of "founding member" not being the appropriate phrase per the comment that originally existed; in review I realize that isn't what you did and I misspoke there. I do not believe that we should shy away from a grammatically correct term in the relevant English dialect just because some might not be familiar with it. It was one that survived FAC and numerous copyedits (i.e. peer review and many editors/years) without issue. I wouldn't edit war over your change but in my opinion "founder member" suits it better. The SandDoctor  Talk 16:10, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

First manager
Insertion of Jagger's views of his first manager as "a 50-year-old northern mill owner. It was completely crackers." SN54129 10:58, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Are you seeking comment on adding this here somewhere? (For others' convenience: source) The SandDoctor  Talk 15:37, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Quite.  SN54129  10:41, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Altamont Free Concert
I am wondering why the Altamont debacle in December, 1969 is not mentioned in the 1960s section. It is widely considered to be the end of the idealistic counterculture of the 1960s, and Jagger and the Rolling Stones were the best known performers there. Personally, it was a terrible shock to me because I had seen the Rolling Stones perform almost the same set in Detroit two weeks earlier. Have the editors who brought this to FA discussed Altamont previously? Cullen328 (talk) 08:15, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Good point. No, it was not. But I agree it should be, considering he was potentially in danger of being shot (Hunter's assumed target) and has gone on record that he was quote/unquote "shitting himself" throughout the concert.  SN54129  10:40, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That is a very good point . Not sure how that was missed. I've added a paragraph about it and have to run but will look at adding more sources etc. SN -- I couldn't find "shitting himself" referenced in a quick google search. Do you have that ref handy? The SandDoctor  Talk 18:25, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies, that was me paraphrasing... in the colloquial, if you know what I mean! I think "was very worried" though about the atmosphere... will dig about for a source.  SN54129  18:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like that was actually a near direct quote ("scared shitless"). Google finally indexed it. The SandDoctor  Talk 21:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC)