Talk:Microsoft Certified Professional/Archive 1

Abbreviation
In reference to article nomenclature: I guess the reason we spell out Microsoft Certified Professional while abbreviating MCSA and MCSE is that MCP is a common TLA? Nathan256 28 June 2005 17:57 (UTC)

Ease of getting?
When mentioning the youngest person who has got a certification, the purpose is to say how easy it is? How clever she is? Or just informing a record? I would suggest to change that heading or omit it at all.
 * I agree. This is propaganda and it's oil for the Wikipedia-bashers' fire. I'm deleting it. Anyone who wants to restore it must supply a good reason for that. --Shlomital 17:52, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree. However unpleasant it might be for some to feel compared to an 8 year old, the fact (if reliably confirmed) would certainly notable if not for the performance at least it's very unusually young age of the people involved given that most MCP are awarded to 20-30 year olds professionals.
 * I am therefore restoring this info but feel free to improve it and mention other notable MCPs.
 * Ghaag (talk) 11:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It just seems unusual because most children are doing nothing other than dick around on Myspace nowadays. About 25 years ago, we had a computer club at primary school (UK) teaching coding and I was proficient in BASIC, Z80, 6502 asm and the vast number of Acorn MOS calls by time I was 9.  It was nothing special back then in the home computer boom to see *young* kids with a lot of programming knowledge.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.65.199 (talk) 17:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Incredibly hard to verify too (noting the fraudulent claims of at least one citizen of Pakistan who made a big splash in the news) and to keep up to date.ASVero (talk) 10:50, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

If its so easy to get.. go ahead and get one..

master merge
I'm merging all the MCP-related articles to this article. What a mess it all was! Every article talked about everything. &mdash;Quarl (talk) 2006-01-12 10:25Z 

The tone of this article I found a little shocking, specially when describing the ease on how to obtain the MCSE certification. People in the IT world who work directly with the operating systems for several years, even veterans, fail these exam(s) multiple times. The comments make it seem as if I could buy to a grocery store and pick up my MCSE. If I could compare a MCSE to a degree, it would be at least the difficulty of an Associates Degree, which takes no effort, if not comparable to a Bachelors. I dare someone to convince me how easy it was to obtain their MCSE. And theres a vague comment here I believe that states how you can pick up your MCSE at any local training center. At minimum state a price, state that a pass is not guaranteed, it is not possible for an instructor to force you to know the knowledge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.211.198.39 (talk) 12:23, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I would not regard these tests as being particularly difficult. People do fail them but if properly prepared it should be virtually impossible to do so. I am speaking as someone who is an MCSE and who has in the past scored 100% in an exam.

They are only a test on a particular commercial product. There is no way they can be compared to a degree or any "proper" tertiary qualification or professional registrations like CEng or CITP. And they are not very highly regarded by employers in the UK although business's selling training obviously like to make out that they are. (86.139.64.132 (talk) 20:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC))

removed stuff
I removed the text below. &mdash;Quarl (talk) 2006-01-12 10:25Z 

To achieve an MCSE in Windows 2000, students must pass the following core exams:
 * 70-210: Installing, Configuring, and Administering Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
 * 70-215: Installing, Configuring, and Administering Microsoft Windows 2000 Server
 * 70-216: Implementing and Administering a Microsoft Windows 2000 Network Infrastructure
 * 70-217: Implementing and Administering a Microsoft Windows 2000 Directory Services Infrastructure

To achieve an MCSE in Windows Server 2003, students must pass the following core exams:
 * 70-270: Installing, Configuring, and Administering Microsoft Windows XP Professional
 * 70-290: Managing and Maintaining a Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Environment
 * 70-291: Implementing, Managing, and Maintaining a Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Network Infrastructure
 * 70-293: Planning and Maintaining a Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Network Infrastructure
 * 70-294: Planning, Implementing, and Maintaining a Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Active Directory Infrastructure


 * Why did you removed this information? This important info for any candidate trying to get information on the requriements, and why did you leave the courses, which are of little help? Tico285 11:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The information that was removed is about to be a legacy certification path. Candidates will not be able to obtain the MCSE 2000 after the end of 2008. --Mnemnoch 20:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe removal of MCSE 2000 certification was what was meant, not removal of MCSE 2003, which is at the time Microsofts premiere certification and most well known in the industry... and while others argue that it will soon be replaced, I expect several more years out of it, specially in the government realm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.211.198.39 (talk) 12:40, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Microsoft Certification Training providers
May I suggest including some reputed Microsoft training providers worldwide? It would be a useful resource for aspiring candidates...--Asoft 09:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Edited text, removed course information
I don't see why Quarl took out the exam info, in general there isn't enough information here to fully cover any of the tracks; instead i have referred users to the Microsoft Learning for specific information. I also edited a lot of text, added information on the new generation certifications.Tico285 12:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I also, removed all references to course's length, as this is misleading on the amount of time required for each certification. Also the course information is not needed, tables as below were all removed.

Neutrality / Commercialism in edits regarding MS & Cisco certification
I have spotted a trend in editing in a number of pages that address Microsoft products. Amongst these are this page, and the Biztalk pages. A user by the name of  Firefighter Dog seems to add these sections or at least adds a line refering to a commercial website for certification training (linking to a company called Unitek).

Should these sections be tagged with the POV template and the commercial links removed or should they be remover entirely ?

After some consideration I decided to tag this page and the Biztalk page with the POV tag. I also included a comment earlier on the Firefighter DogTalk page.

--ddezeure 14:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Good on you. I get sick and tired of reading commercial hype like this on other sites. I come to Wikipedia for objective opinion, not commercials.

I removed this section. It is obviously of commercial nature and overemphasizes benefits of training courses. Also, references to Cisco training courses don't belong to this article. Konstantin Veretennicov 09:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Gaining an MCSA on Windows 2000 then gaining an MCSE on Windows 2000
I added the text about being able to gain an MCSA then do more exams to get an MCSE without having to do any exams that are extraneous to the MCSE (ie do only 7 exams) because it is how I did things and could help someone stay motivated. Getting an MCP then having to wait another 6 exams for another certification is tough. Having a mid-point cerification on the way to MCSE helps to keep motivation up. Anyway, this is a discussion page, so anyone else have something to say ?

Matthewhilder 19:54, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Criticizing MCSE Certification
I suppose one person's criticism is another person's unreasonable harshness. Test designers in every academic milieu insist that students "master" the material, by which is meant students must memorize what it says in the book. This makes the test designer's job easy. How do you test actual acquisition of deep understanding? This begs the question: Is rote memorization the path to deep understanding? From my own experience the answer is a definite "No." I have done my own research as to the effectiveness of the MCSE program. Quality may vary from school to school. The nine week curriculum is only an introduction to endless post-graduate memorization of facts that are pertinent only in that the facts suggest correct answers to questions that appear on the tests. Thus, to my mind, "certification" is a game that acts to keep the truly incompetent out. It also bars those who are competent but who find the game repulsive. In America, whatever seems reasonable to those who control the money is what flies -- effective or not. 141.156.233.158 01:47, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH 64.40.52.85 02:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

where went the external links?
where went the external links? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Icethey (talk • contribs) 13:23, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

MOS in MCP listing
After writing the Microsoft Office Specialist exam, you are NOT an MCP. This entry should be moved elsewhere. Doubleohdonut 18:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, you get an MCP ID number (now more correctly referred to as an MC ID) and all Office exams appear on the same transcript as your IT Pro and Dev stuff, so IMHO it is pure semantics as to whether this is or is not an MCP. If someone passes a business-skills related exam in a a Microsoft subject, are they not a Microsoft Certified Professional? Albeit a professional spreadsheet operator rather than a systems admin or coder? It seems a bit arbitrary to exclude MOS and it's kin from this page.ASVero (talk) 10:57, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

MCNE
This article lists a "Microsoft Certified Notepad Expert." This immediately stuck out to me as spurious, and I checked the MCP site at Microsoft and see no evidence of such a thing. So it seems this should be removed. ~Jon 12.40.148.19 19:52, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

New Certs vs Old?
There seems section of the article dealing with the new certifications makes no reference to the validity of the old certifications. It doesn't mention if the new certs supplement, or are intended to replace, the old ones. I'd like to see some clarification on that.

--203.27.228.50 (talk) 04:07, 11 January 2008 (UTC) I've made the "new generation" section the current certifications seciton (moving it to the top) and renamed the current to "previous generation". I also added sections that discuss upgrade paths based on the current information from Microsoft. I've also updated the the MCTS section (this only had 8 of the current 20 specalisations) and fixed up the links and formatting as this was inconsistent. I also checked spelling

Microsoft Certified Architect?
I noticed that a search for Microsoft Certified Architect redirects here, but there is no mention of that program on the page.--

I've moved the MCA into the New Generation (which is now the Current Generation) certification section as this is not an current (now previous generation) certification. I've also expanded it to clarify that its got different rules and fees to everything else, and added more information to show the new variants that are avaliable and so it matches the other secitons 203.27.228.50 (talk) 04:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Premiere
"Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (or MCSE) is the best-known and premiere Microsoft certification." - I wouldn't say that the MCSE was the premiere Microsoft certification. Depending on your job description, any of the top-level certifications (MCSD, MCPD, MCDBA, etc.) could be more valuable than the MCSE. If anything qualifies as Microsoft's premiere certification, it would have to be Microsoft Certified Architect. CodeNaked 17:07, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Links to exam 70-536
Just to let you know that I changed the links to the exam 70-536 wikibook because it was recently renamed and that I added the wikibooks template in the external links section. --Jacques (talk) 20:31, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

cleanup
This was without a doubt the ugliest, most badly-formatted article I've ever seen at Wikipedia. Before even beginning to fact-check and update the content - which is desperately needed here - basic changes needed to be made to make the page navigable. I've made some fixes but much of the content needs to be split off into separate, more detailed articles. All of the current-generation certifications ought to have their own pages, and a separate page for a table of exams would be useful. -- Fscketeer (talk) 19:50, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

old generation certificates
The article seems suggesting that some certificates ("old generation") are no longer available but actually they are still offered by Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcdst/default.mspx) Could maybe someone put two words of explanation/clarification? --Dia^ (talk) 14:16, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I intend to re-organize some of these certifications, i.e. the MCDST is listed as a previous generation cert, What I would like to do is get rid of the "previous generation cert section". Sephiroth storm (talk) 22:00, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree also. I've added MCSA/MCSE to the current generation of MS certs but I think this whole page needs overhauled and re-created. MCSE is still very much in demand mainly because of Vista due to be replaced and employers (in the UK at least) are still wanting people who are MCSE certified. I'm yet to see a job vacany that is requesting MCITP. Kryten2340 (talk) 20:41, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Companies Providing Microsoft Certification Classes
@Dia, "Older generation" Microsoft Cert Classes as still being taught, many people now are still upgrading to 2005 Windows Applications, but you're right in pulling it out - the newer courses cover most of the old material.

New Horizons Computer Learning Centers is one of several companies that offer these courses, and I would like to be involved in the creating of said pages.

Afoley1987 (talk) 14:41, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup of "You" References/Addition of Windows 7 Client Certifications
I've replaced inappopriate instances of "you" with references to a third-person "candidate." I thought that would be more appropriate than the second-person references.

Also, I've gone ahead and added the Windows 7 MCITP client certifications to the MCITP section (corresponding to exams 70-685 and 70-686).

Zunderscore (talk) 19:56, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Separate historical from current info
The article badly needs separation of past and present. -- 84.63.247.114 (talk) 17:52, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

...and even more so now the MCSA and MCSE have been reintroduced (with new meanings for the terms too). Even seen a recent edit to put MCSE back to Systems Engineer rather than Solutions Expert. This was fair since the edit was made with no explanation as to what it used to mean, what it now means, how the programs differ and so on, and without the time to write all that new stuff I felt the reversion should stand, but there is a real need to separate things out here.

Maybe bringing everything onto one page made things too messy. Perhaps keeping MCP/MCSA/MCSE/MCITP here broken down by "eras" of the programme would make sense, and splitting MOS/MCAS, MCT, MCPD etc to their own pages would make more sense and make it more maintainableASVero (talk) 11:02, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Historcally from NT 3.5 through Server 2003 MCSE was Systems Engineer not Solutions Expert. The new version of MCSE is virtually a backronym contrived to simply revive the well known initials. I would say the two should be considered completley different titles. (86.180.212.2 (talk) 12:33, 22 October 2012 (UTC))

Not a College Catalog
The article read too much like a schedule of classes at a community college. Exam listings does not fit the scope of an encyclopedia. If a student wants to know the exact requirements and steps, they should go directly to the Microsoft Learning website where the info is more up-to-date. Having such things here complicates the article and makes it unapproachable by general readers. It would also be a disservice to prospective students who might be misled by misinformation, since this article is infrequently updated. Jigen III (talk) 15:20, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Old MCSD vs New MCSD
The old MCSD (MS Solution Developer) used to be a stepstone to the MCPD. You'd take 5 exams, become an MCSD, then take 2 additional exams to upgarde to MCPD. The new MCSD (MS Solutions Developer, note the different spelling), is a new program intended to replace the MCPD program, which will be retired during 2013. The old MCSD has already been retired. I am not entirely certain about all the details here, and the new MCSD is so new that I find it hard to confirm everything regarding the old vs new program, so I won't update the article myself. I do think the article needs to be updated, prefereably by someone with better knowledge on these programs than I. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vuzman (talk • contribs) 11:34, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Not the Guinness Book of World Records
Not only is this not a college catalog, this is also not Guinness World Records. Listing people who got MCPs is promotional and not noteworthy. Let's be real, this is a vendor-specific certification, not a PhD. You wouldn't list a person who completed company training in an encyclopedic article (imagine: youngest forklift driver, youngest welder, youngest carpenter, etc). Youngest MCP is something you'd find in your local news to fill time ("local boy an IT pro, news at 11"), not an encyclopedia. So let's avoid promotional stuff. Jigen III (talk) 03:51, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer certification is still active even if no longer available. So why remove all mention of it from the article? (86.181.17.19 (talk) 21:51, 9 June 2013 (UTC))

Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator
Section required if also including MCSE. 92.12.208.240 (talk) 00:31, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Too many retired certifications
The retired certifications section takes up the bulk of this article, I think it would make more sense to simply list retired certifications in a list/bullet point format. Also I think it would probably make more sense to list MTA, MOS and MCT before retired certifications. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.48.193 (talk) 04:50, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

jomon jose — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.66.188.64 (talk) 14:45, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

No copyright issue
I have revised the page and there is no copyrighted material. Noone can read this and get the certificate. Please stop adding the copyright section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.12.13.17 (talk) 10:42, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The Copyvio template carries, in large black letters, this message: "Do not restore or edit the blanked content on this page until the issue is resolved by an administrator, copyright clerk or OTRS agent." Is that not completely clear? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:18, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Could you please comment on what copyrighted issue exists on that article? Look at this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_certifications It contains basically the same exact information but for another certificate. THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT ISSUE If there is, please, clearly point it out on the talk page.
 * Why are you shouting? I believe the violations go back to in 2004, copied from this 2002 book or some similar source; and that the whole article needs checking by someone competent to do that. I posted at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Microsoft on 26 September to see if anyone wanted to rewrite it. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:33, 20 October 2015 (UTC)