Talk:Mid-American Conference baseball tournament

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 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/6QClmhfL0?url=http://www.mac-sports.com/Portals/20/MACTournamentHistory.pdf to http://www.mac-sports.com/Portals/20/MACTournamentHistory.pdf

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Requested move 23 October 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 04:07, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

– Case fixes for the pattern "... Conference  Tournament" to "... Conference tournament", where  is mostly Baseball but also has a few others; these 10 are just a sample, including some templates and redirects. These are not proper names, and not usually capitalized in sources, so per WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS, the part that's not part of the conference proper name should be lowercase. The phrase "Conference Baseball Tournament" is actually not very common in sources, and where it appears with a conference name it's fairly often lowercase. The intention is to have a bot move the many hundreds of similarly named articles, listed at User:Dicklyon/Conference_Tournaments, if the consensus here is clear. Dicklyon (talk) 01:52, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Mid-American Conference Baseball Tournament → Mid-American Conference baseball tournament
 * Southland Conference Baseball Tournament → Southland Conference baseball tournament
 * 1951 Southern Conference Baseball Tournament → 1951 Southern Conference baseball tournament
 * 2018 Big East Conference Baseball Tournament → 2018 Big East Conference baseball tournament
 * 2021 Northeast Conference Baseball Tournament → 2021 Northeast Conference baseball tournament
 * Template:Mountain West Conference Baseball Tournament navbox → Template:Mountain West Conference baseball tournament navbox
 * Template:Pac-12 Conference Baseball Tournament navbox → Template:Pac-12 Conference baseball tournament navbox
 * Southeastern Conference Baseball Tournament → Southeastern Conference baseball tournament
 * Support—This fix adds a useful layer of meaning, aside from being consistent with MOSCAP. Tony (talk)  02:09, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Support That part of the noun phrase proposed to be amended is not inherently a proper name but descriptive. Unless there is good evidence from independent sources to the contrary (per WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS) they should be lowercased. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:21, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per all of the above.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:12, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Support. Use sentence case unless it's a proper name. Pilaz (talk) 12:25, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Support for consistency across the sports projects, to apply to all pages in Category:College baseball conference tournaments in the United States and subcats. Billcasey905 (talk) 17:54, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. Looks like Template:Mountain West Conference Baseball Tournament navbox → Template:Mountain West Conference baseball tournament navbox is missing from this list (only the /doc page is included). If we change the /doc, then we should probably rename the navbar as well, yes?  P.I. Ellsworth &thinsp;, ed.  put'r there 05:56, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Have removed the "/doc" from the entry above, because if the template is renamed, then the documentation page's name will follow.  P.I. Ellsworth &thinsp;, ed.  put'r there 04:01, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Template:Mountain West Conference Baseball Tournament navbox is on the linked list of files to move. I didn't know that subpages would follow automatically; are you sure?  Apparently there have been problems of archives not moving in some cases, for example. Dicklyon (talk) 06:34, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * When templates have documentation, sandbox and/or testcases pages, they are all renamed to match the new template name. It may or may not be "automatic", but whoever moves the template should know to check for /doc, /sandbox and /testcases subpages (and any other subpages for that matter).  P.I. Ellsworth &thinsp;, ed.  put'r there 21:18, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

On moving redirects
In this edit, the two redirects I had listed above were removed from the list. I had those in there for a good reason, based on previously learned hard lessons about case cleanup edits. The problem is that lots of articles link through those over-capitalized redirects, and if you just fix the case in all the links, using a regular expression, those will become redlinks if the corresponding case-fixed redirect does not exist. The easiest way to make sure those exist is to move the corresponding redirects, using the same bot that moves the articles. If there's a better way (i.e. if someone volunteers to make their bot do this by creating rather than moving), I'll be happy to have that instead. I'll talk to the operator of TolBot, who was amenable but I think didn't get around to this yet on the previous basketball and other ones we did; I ended up having to find and fix many by hand, which was tedious and never clear when finished. Dicklyon (talk) 15:13, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Should we get back to the redirect creation problem? Do we need a separate bot approval for that? Or what do you think of just moving redirects? Others are invited to comment here on these options, too. Dicklyon (talk) 15:16, 23 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Moving redirects is likely confusing and not quite in the spirit of the rules set out for automatic approval; I think redirect creation would be preferred. I got consensus for this in BRFA 13B, and could do this again. If you gave me a list of from/to pairs, I could file for another run. Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 18:00, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

I've undone the removal and picked a better disambig redirect example (the other was already done). Moving this will keep the right annotations on the disambig edirect, I think, easier that figuring out better new ones. Let me know if the proposed redirect moves have bad side effects I haven't thought of. Dicklyon (talk) 15:30, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Removed the redirect,, hopefully for the final time since redirects are ineligible as current titles in move requests. They cause the RMCD bot to recognize the move request as malformed. Makes more sense to simply create the needed redirect. That's even better than piping the link.  P.I. Ellsworth &thinsp;, ed.  put'r there 18:30, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * to show you what Paine referred to above, HERE is the relevant bot error report. Requesting moves of redirects is problematic. If someone moves a redirect and leaves behind a redirect from that move, then they've just created a WP:Double redirect. There are bots operating to fix double redirects but page movers shouldn't be intentionally creating work for bots, which we can't always count on to act in a timely manner. I can't count on editors with the "page mover" bit to always not leave behind a bad redirect. In the case of Big Ten Conference Basketball Tournament (disambiguation) I moved that without leaving a redirect behind, as your user page is the only page that links to that so I didn't really break anything by deleting that redirect. Essentially my move deleted the bad redirect and created the good one. I tagged as R avoided double redirect. List of Metro Conference Men's Basketball Tournament Finals broadcasters has page history so that is the redirect where there may be a good reason to move to the correct capitalization, so that an R with possibilities and/or R with history is sitting on the proper capitalization. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:20, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Noting also that HERE a bot created an R to disambiguation page redirect so even if you don't "move" a redirect there, a bot may create one for you. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:28, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll keep talking with Tol about creating instead of moving redirects. Dicklyon (talk) 22:25, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Dicklyon, I'm having some trouble trying to find a list of redirects to be created. It looks like User:Dicklyon/Conference Tournaments would be for this round of moves; if you could compile a list of redirects which need creation (across all rounds of moves), I could file a BRFA. Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 16:34, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll let you know on your talk page when I've got a consolidated list ready. Pretty busy IRL. Dicklyon (talk) 23:52, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.