Talk:Middle Dutch

Words used to describe the case system
I give the English translations of the words used for describing the case system, I am not an expert on Middle Dutch, so feel free to correct all errors I might make. 惑乱 分からん 12:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Your translation was correct, I've added "actions" to "deed" to make it more clear as Dutch "daden" has a somewhat broader meaning.
 * Rex 12:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks, it was a lot of probable guesswork from cognates and loanwords in other West and North Germanic languages. 惑乱 分からん 13:48, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion of Orthography
The discussion of Middle Dutch orthography could be much improved. Some of the claims are dubious, some outright untrue. For instance, the use of  to represent Gmc. /k/ was relatively rare in early Middle Dutch, though I'm not sure how common it became later. Also, the description is very non-factual and unprofessional in general. It contains claims about the way people wrote that are plainly untrue. Lufiend 03:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

dialects
Wait a second. The image is incorrect: it depicts the current Dutch main dialects! The exact borders of the Middle Dutch dialects are uncertain but certainly did not correspond exactly to those on the map. On top of that, making the border of Middle Dutch correspond to the modern state borders of NL and B with Germany is very dubious. Even in modern days, this border is a fiction, not a linguistic border but a mere convention to define "Dutch" and "German" dialects. In the Middle Ages, the Netherlands was a rather vague geografical area rather than a separate state. The dialects were called duytsch and there was no perceived border between the duytsch of the Low Countries and Low German. Most notably, Middle Low Saxon as spoken in the Netherlands had very little to do with Middle Brabantic, Middle Flemish and Middle Hollandic, and quite a lot with the language of its Hanseastic siblings spoken in what is now northern Germany. It was not until the Early Modern Dutch period that these dialects came under considerable western influence at all. Steinbach (fka Caesarion) 10:11, 19 June 2008 (UTC) --- Yes, it is very incorrect!! These are the current Dutch dialect. In that time the people in Groningen did not speak Diets (middle Dutch) but Frisian, a language that looks more like old English. Important Middle Dutch works were written in the Middle Dutch of the area east of what is today the German border. This area called 'Kleverland' was Middle Dutch, and not German/low saxon. On the hand the areas of east Netherlands were and still are part of the Low Saxon linguistic zone, and are not part of Low Franconian. Middle Dutch was a group of related dialects from which arose a standard language that had its roots in Flemish, it's main base in Antwerp. Later the language of Holland would become the new standard: New Dutch: Hollandic with frisian influences.

Strong adjectives with definite article?
I don't know who made the table with case forms, but using strong adjective endings with the definite article is just plain wrong. Any Germanic student can tell you that. The correct form would be the various forms of the indefinite article een/eene, but I don't know all the exact forms. Can someone correct it? --CodeCat (talk) 11:57, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that the declension tables look a little strange when you are used to German, but these forms seem to be normal in Middle Dutch. The paradigm was apparently taken from Maaike Hogenhout-Mulder, Cursus Middelnederlands. Iblardi (talk) 20:32, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

which is logical as people usually read texts out loud
Why is logical being hyperlinked? It seems especially odd since this is a rather colloquial and formally not quite correct use of the word! 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:A40C:58CF:5E50:E7F4 (talk) 09:12, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Removed it. Next time you can be bold and do it yourself.--Megaman en m (talk) 10:20, 7 September 2022 (UTC)