Talk:Middle Stone Age

4 subheadings
I will be adding more information to the 4 subheadings that are currently empty. There will be data under those fields by the end of the day today AnatuZeder (talk) 15:12, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

The Middle Stone Age is equivalent to neither the Middle Paleolithic nor the Mesolithic. The Middle Stone Age is used to refer to the period in Africa between roughly 280,000 years ago to approximately 40,000 years ago (dates vary between sources). The Middle Paleolithic is not a concept applied to African archaeology and none of these pages should be merged since they all refer to distinct phenomena in different times or different places. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnatuZeder (talk • contribs) 22:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Middle Stone Age is not equivalent to Mesolithic ! The first is African and is dated between 200.000 and 30.000 years, the lattest is European and begins around 8.000 years BC ! --I20 18:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

yes. It is equivalent to Middle Paleolithic. The claim that "Middle Paleolithic" is a term restricted to European prehistory is not substantiated. This should just be the "Africa" section of the Middle Paleolithic article. --dab (𒁳) 13:06, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi, it is not exactly the same, the chronological limits are not the same. The two articles should not be merged. I20 (talk) 14:24, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

hi im am so bored but this is right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.239.28.54 (talk) 20:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

ref
Wilkins, ʺEarlier and Middle Stone Age Prepared Core Reduction Strategies at Kudu Koppie, Northern South Africaʺ The lowermost level of the site of Kudu Koppie in the Limpopo River Valley of South Africa yields a terminal Earlier Stone Age industry containing core‐axes and described as a local variant of the Sangoan industry 76.16.183.158 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC).

Lede does not meet Wiki guidelines
Quoting MOS:LEAD

"The lead section (also known as the introduction, lead, or lede of a Wikipedia article is the section before the table of contents and the first heading. The lead serves both as an introduction to the article and as a summary of its most important aspects. The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article.  It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the subject is interesting or notable, and summarize the most important points—including any prominent controversies. The emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources, and the notability of the article's subject should usually be established in the first few sentences."

MOS:INTRO "The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article. The reason for the topic being noteworthy should be established early on in the lead. It is even more important here than for the rest of the article that the text be accessible."

Bold emphasis mine. "Encyclopedic style" does not mean "dry & dusty." The lede is too short, and also reads like the answer sheet of a multiple choice test. Particularly the lede should be geared to the non-expert, since the lazy overuse of wikilinks are liable to land people from all walks of life here who only want a quick def. Most people don't read much beyond the lede. Hint, the non-expert doesn't care about points, s/he cares about clothing, food, occupation, and family etc.. to get a feel for it. Cheers!  --2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:C1D:4479:38BA:D508 (talk) 02:48, 28 May 2018 (UTC)Doug Bashford


 * Thanks for your input, Doug Bashford! Please feel free to edit the intro yourself, particularly if you have ideas about how to improve it. Ninafundisha (talk) 14:14, 28 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Why thank you! So many articles are jealously guarded by vigilant angels of harumphitude who actually believe "encyclopedic style" means; "stilted and boring." I just returned from Mesolithic's lede. It seems so much nicer (as per above). Communication has about six main rules and one of them is to target your message to a particular audience. While the wiki target is Everyman, especially so the lede.


 * I've thought about this article. I guess I could polish the lede for friendliness, —or do a rewrite. I envision somebody editing the one paragraph down in size, then adding up to three more, for a total of four paragraphs. Possibly in one paragraph, we could try to tell a short (his)story of one imaginary family or tribe for a day to put the reader there...in six? sentences. We absolutely do not want to use a template that is compatible with say; a physical science. In my mind the lede should give Everyman (who knows NOTHING about this topic) a realistic gut feeling for the topic in an interesting way, make him consider reading further. (My first rule of writing is: Nobody is as interested in this as I am.) To polish for friendliness would mostly be to keep Everyman in fast-reading mode, as reading a newspaper. (I also get the vague feeling that debate points are being suggested, to an unknown debate.) Cheers!  --2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:C1D:4479:38BA:D508 (talk) 16:57, 30 May 2018 (UTC)Doug Bashford


 * All interesting ideas, thanks. I think we need to be careful to keep the tone of the introductory paragraph encyclopedic - and thus I don't think we should invent imaginary peoples for the sake of storytelling. Middle Stone Age archaeology is very much a hard science, and so perhaps I'd advocate for a more simple clean-up of the lede to make it more reader-friendly while still maintaining an encyclopedic tone. Please keep in mind that the page did go through an extensive peer review during the Good Article process, and so I am reluctant to overhaul it completely. I think we should give Everyperson a bit more credit as well! But, if there are ways to make the intro more clear, and less jargony, then by all means I'd say go for it. Ninafundisha (talk) 22:42, 30 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'll see if I can knock off some of the rough edges, and somebody can clean that up to fit. But the major flaw will remain; the lede is about the science of the Middle Stone Age, and what the MSA isn't, and some dates, rather than about (explaining) the Middle Stone Age. It's like an into the lede that never comes.


 * My above suggestion? I often use harsh language, even hyperbole as tools to quickly convey complex concepts. And precision here still eludes me. Rather than "invent imaginary peoples," I meant portray a representative family or tribe, —problem is, ain't no such thing. (Or is there?) But that's just one possible communication tool to meet our goal. But I can think of no other method both fat and short, as a lede requires. Yet there must be dozens.


 * When I said we do not want to use a template that is compatible with say; a physical science, I meant they are usually not compatible with a biological or social science. (Some of the worst and deepest errors in Chicago School economics can nastily be summed up as; physics envy, the GOD of science.) While Middle Stone Age is very much a hard science, it would be very wrong to assume we simply need to remove the jargon etc from any science, and use the same style and values of a peer reviewed journal and transpose it here, —a very intentionally NOT "peer reviewed journal." I would call that a translation failure. The translation is deeper than words. For example, in a trade journal, it seems the number one value is to never, ever make an error, (GASP!) so load up on the "legalese" clauses and conditionals, and omit anything that is not 100% confirmed. Then compose a facts list, and don't dare infer anything from them nor add context. (...because the reader is trained to do that?) Done. Crappy writing style doesn't matter. But here the number one value is to communicate complex concepts with a few sentences to Everyman. I'm thinking of the adage; don't let perfection paralyze the good. Or; a little imprecision can save pages of intolerably boring writing, a Fail. Again, I'm using harsh, imprecise terminology, I hope you are catching my intent. Cheers! --2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:3044:A2C3:2683:987B (talk) 06:55, 5 June 2018 (UTC)Doug Bashford


 * I've decided not to make any changes. You may want to look at Britannica's style on similar topics for inspiration. Cheers!  --2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:3044:A2C3:2683:987B (talk) 12:11, 24 June 2018 (UTC)Doug Bashford