Talk:Midgar/Archive 1

I think that Midgar is important enough in the context of the Final Fantasy series to deserve its own entry; there are entries for Mako Energy and the Sister Ray. There are also a whole bunch of links to a 'Midgar' article; the brief description on the 'Places in FF7' page doesn't do the topic justice, IMHO.

AustinZ

FFVII Wiki Cleanup
The long and short of what I'm saying here is that Wikipedia looks like a Final Fantasy fansite. Cloud's page looks like a biography, Advent Children's looks like the reports that came out of Venice when the film was first screened there, just yesterday I had to merge Ultima Weapon with Weapons, and then we've got a plethora of unnecessary random pages.

Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X are the worst about the whole thing. Head over to the Final Fantasy X Talk Page to see what I'm talking about in regards to it.

Final Fantasy VII's problem is that some pages are down right unnecessary. Until recently, there was even a page for the damn Sister Ray. Here's what needs to be addressed:


 * Midgar (there's nothing that warrants it not being in the List of Final Fantasy VII Locations page; there's hardly so much to say about it that a general interest venue can't keep it sounding interesting without writing about everything from its newspapers to its schools).
 * Materia (crystalized form of Mako; same attributes apply to both).
 * Mako (condensed form of Lifestream which can crystalize into Materia; same attributes apply to both).

This is what I propose:


 * Midgar is merged with List of Final Fantasy VII Locations.
 * Materia is merged into Mako (as Lifestream was).

There's no reason for all this stuff to be scattered across Wikipedia when it can conveniently and reasonably fit on shared pages. Thoughts? (Please direct all comments on this matter to the Final Fantasy VII Talk Page) Ryu Kaze 09:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Taking this article on its own, I'm currently not keen to see it merged into the locations list. There's a fair ammount of encyclopedic info here that I think would bulk out the Midgar entry in the latter article too much. The List of Final Fantasy VII locations article is one of the best locations articles of the series, mainly for its equal, and brief, coverage of all the list entries (it was until recently the FF Project's sample locations article; I think it still should be) and I wouldn't like to see it padded with info that currently lives more comfortably in a seperate article. >Gamemaker 14:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Midgar is play on the word Midgard meaning middle earth, a little known fact that perhaps could find its way into the much needed Midgar section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neokenji (talk • contribs) 20:06, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. Materia and Mako should be merged together, but the locations list is long enough as it is. Wiki is not paper, and although some of the shorter and more minor articles would be better served merged into a larger article, I doubt the necessity or gained utility from merging a rather long article into what was originally meant as a general-purpose overview. AustinZ 15:06, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, as I said over on the Final Fantasy VII Talk Page, my main gripe with Midgar having its own article is that 1) it's not really necessary, 2) I don't see how Midgar warrants its own page more than say, Esthar, Alexandria, or Bevelle, 3) it's just an invitation for fancruft references to Metropolis, Akira's Neo-Tokyo, and who knows what else, and 4) it's just an invitation for there to be articles made on everything from Conde Petie to Gongaga, and we can definitely do without that. Think about it in this light and get back to me.

Let me know if you have any other suggestions. Also, let's try to keep all the discussion on the FFVII Talk Page if possible, because it's a bit much to spread it around. Ryu Kaze 20:30, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * By the way, in case you guys check back here instead of over on the Final Fantasy VII Talk Page, be aware that I've placed my proposal for the new Midgar section onto the List of Final Fantasy VII Locations page, and also be aware that I've expanded the content of every other section to compensate for the Midgar section's noticable size increase. As I've said elsewhere, though, while the Midgar section is still the longest one, there's enough content spread around to prevent it from looking out of place. Also, with it being the first one on the list, there's not going to be any feelings of disorientation on the part of readers, and it won't break the flow of the article in any way.


 * I really think all the general interest info on Midgar's there and I can't see what would warrant keeping the Midgar page at this point. Ryu Kaze 14:20, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the proposed section looks quite good. Although there's some copyediting that I'd like to do later (phrasing and a couple of typos), I think it preserves most of the information on this page (which was my primary concern). However, the formatting looks a bit funny on a 1280x1024 monitor. Is there something you could do to clean that up? AustinZ 22:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I made it a point to preserve the relevant information. Glad you like it, despite a couple of things. As for the monitor issue, I'm not sure... my monitor's a 600x800 set at a 1280x1024 resolution, and it doesn't appear awkward, so I'm not sure what kind of effect it's giving people with a monitor that itself is at 1280x1024. I'll take a look at it, nonetheless. Ryu Kaze 02:08, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * O~ookay, it even looks screwed up on mine now. Somebody's messed with the picture formatting and it's all off-center. I'm not sure if that's what you saw, but I'd venture to guess that it is. Ryu Kaze 02:11, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, on a second examination, the picture rearrangment is actually better than the original, but because of the table of contents, it kind of pushes the Midgar pictures off the page in a weird way. I'm going to tinker with it. Ryu Kaze 02:18, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Alright, now I've got it to where it looks perfect on my screen. I hope it'll be the same on yours. Basically, the Midgar info is to the right of the table of contents, and below the Midgar info are the Midgar screenshots. I've got them set up now to where they don't run off the page or into one another. Then, below those -- and still to the right of the table of contents -- is most of the Kalm section, including the Kalm screenshot. As it is, it looks great. I hope that it'll be the same on yours. Ryu Kaze 02:47, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: The issue has been settled. The Midgar page will remain. Head over to the List of Final Fantasy VII Locations Talk Page for more details. Ryu Kaze 12:59, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

The History Section
I think the first sentence in the History section is incorrect. Midgar was never a collection of smaller towns. When Jesse is describing Midgar to Cloud on the train, she mentions that "each town used to have a name, but now they all go by numbered sectors. That's just the kind of place this is." I'm paraphrasing there, but I think that simply means the SECTORS used to have names. Not that there used to be smaller towns that came together to become Midgar. Midgar seems to be an independent project (Sector 6 is incomplete, even) and I doubt it was ever a small collection of towns. Nothing else seems to point to this in the game and the original author seems to be using Jesse's dialogue to assume there used to be smaller towns. I didn't want to just change that without an explination, however. So, what do the rest of you think?
 * Presumably the slums beneath the Plate were the original towns. Sector 6, for example, appears to have been a modern city at some stage, and then there's all the scattered war machines and such like. --Made2Fade 11:27, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know about all that. Think about it. Midgar is a huge construction project. Typically, when you do any sort of construction, you flatten the ground around your foundation. I doubt if there were any towns where Midgar sits, they'd still exist. The whole site would be flattened out to start construction. The sheer amount of equipment needed to construct the pillars and the reactor bases would flatten anything already there as well. And why leave structures that you'll have to maneuver your equipment around anyway? All the stuff in the slums are garbage and probably leftover/discarded materials used by the poor folks to make their own hovels. So, I really don't think anything existed before Midgar at that location. Thoughts? K

Changes

 * Kept losing my edit summary, so; I clarified the wording of the cities layout (hopefully) and adjusted a few details. The mako reactors, for instance, can't simply feed their adjacent sectors, as some are seen offline during the course of the game. Also, the people in the slums talk about a blackout after the reactor explosion, so presumably they use the same source as the upper city. Also, as we see many small businesses in the slums, there isn't much to suggest the 'majority' work for Shin-Ra. --Made2Fade 11:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Deepground
Should there be an additional section about the underground facility beneath the Shinra Building shown in Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII? It is canon, after all and technically a part of Midgar overall. There's even a reactor down there that ties in with the above-ground reactors.

Assessment
I gave this article the best rating I can (and want to) give: B. To make it better, I suggest more pictures, better sections (the stub-like sections on locations are awful. Make it a short summary and move the rest to a list) and more encyclopaedic content like criticism, reviews, how it fits into the world, and generally everything you can't find in the game's manual. How does it use the Norse mythology its name comes from? --User:Krator (t c) 19:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Is anyone going to update this article in regards to its place in the FFVII Compilation..or impliment the reviewer's criticism?
Seriously, this thing has just been sitting here, with no one contributing or updating it at all. Do I have to redraft the entire thing, because if no one steps up to it, I'll be more than happy to. Deepground definately deserves a mention here, along with the sectors, and other bits of info the reviewer of this article stated it needed to be a good article. Where's everyone here? -_- 66.76.60.163 04:30, 22 April 2007 (UTC)Makoeyes987