Talk:Midget/Archive 1

Midgets Are Little People, too!
Once again, I'm asking for this to be locked from being edited by new or unregistered users. This is getting vandalized repeatedly. Trocisp 21:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Someone said something about monkeys on crack! See if Mushroom can do anything about it. He is quite kind in situations like this. How about a temporary lock?--Editor510 (talk) 17:18, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * That's very un-pc of you. We're little persons, not monkeys on crack.  It sounds like you people have consulted Mr Mushroom a little too much allready.--(talk) (UTC)
 * No, no, no, sorry if you mistook what I was saying! A vandal said something silly about the future and monkeys on crack. I would NEVER insult anyone like that. We are all the same, no matter what we say, think, do, or look like. I apologise if you felt a bit insulted, I was just complaining about the vandals.--Editor510 (talk) 18:18, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I mean it though. Vandals attack everything! I mean Weird Al fanboys, them all!-- Editor510  drop us a line, mate  18:40, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * PS sorry! -- Editor510  drop us a line, mate  16:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Continuing on, have we protected it yet? Oh, and though I really do respect magnoliasound, he/she really should have looked at the previous message to mine. I'm not sizeist and neither is Mushroom. In fact, when you think about it, magnoliasound's theory doesn't make sense unless they didn't read the original comment...-- Editor510  drop us a line, mate  08:42, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * What a fool that guy was. He came back FOR MONTHS abusing me. This should serve as a warning. ALWAYS READ COMMENTS TWICE before bursting out like that.-- Editor510  drop us a line, mate  09:28, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Agree
What is a 'fanboy'?

'Sizeist' isn't a word.

This doesn't make sense even if you do read the original comment.

It would be nice to join the conversation without Trocisp editing it. Big Brother (or perhaps Little Brother) is watching you!!! User:3MTA3 (UTC)
 * I just edited this back to a previous version, someone has been vandalizing this page. I'm not sure how, but I think that this page should be locked from being edited by anon users.  (Edited my own post to clarify) Trocisp 00:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, maybe there should be a request for protection. There wasn't any vandalism today though..-BlueAmethyst .:*:. 19:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This page wouldn't get vandalized so often if you guys raised the computer keyboard up a little bit. .--Prosfilaes 01:52, 21 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.79.243.231 (talk)
 * Protected.-BlueAmethyst .:*:. 00:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It's the little things...
Move to Wiktionary! -- Tarquin 20:20 Jan 5, 2003 (UTC) I agree -- Taku 20:43 Jan 5, 2003 (UTC)
 * I disagree, It needs to be cleaned and expanded. --Bran 20:24, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Why? Just saying it needs to be cleaned up doesn't help if it's not obvious.--Prosfilaes 01:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It needs to be organized, it goes from talking about people the straight into talking about "small things," where are the headers and all? --Bran 23:36, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * To user who redirected: your redirect eliminated the content specific to this word. Midget and dwarf are not always synonymous. Please don't do this again without proposing and discussing. Thanks. Alteripse 13:56, 31 May 2004 (UTC)
 * It amazes me how many people still have no idea what the politically correct term for a "person of small stature" is. Here in Houston we got the message loud and clear in 1999. Director of Affirmative Action Lenoria Walker, an African-American, referred to City Councilman Joe Roach as a midget. She was forced to resign over the remark. The correct term is neither "midget" nor "little person", but "dwarf", as Mr. Roach pointed out.
 * I've never heard that in my life, everyone either says midget or little person. Dwarf would just get laughed at.

If you ask me, 'little person' is rather impolite as it draws attention to the condition, while 'midget' is a harmless nonce word. creating an account for yourself so you can avoid further irrelevant warnings.'' Seriously,you tall people, please stop vandalizing articles. You have been warned several times now. More unconstructive edits from your account, will probably get you blocked from editing. Seriously- stop looking down on us! - Ariel ♥ Gold 20:12, 31 July 2007 (UTC) <!-- User:Alison/warn (generic vandalism
 * This implies that a person of small stature should naturally be embarrassed by it and want it euphemised so as not to "draw attention to the condition." That said "Little person" has always sounded patronizing to me. Like it's referring to a leprechaun or something cute and tiny you put on a shelf. As all extent terms have mythological references though maybe it's inevitable. (I usually don't consider myself a dwarf, I'm an OI, but I am under four foot tall)--T. Anthony 13:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know where you're getting that from, but dwarf is fairly common, much more so than LP. Midget is considered derrogatory, the equivalent to saying 'nigger.' Nathan J. Yoder 04:13, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * But by who? See, that is the problem with political correctness. It's all a matter of opinion and when we're talking encyclopedia, opinions should stay out of the matter and allow the user/reader to decide for themselves. I personally would hate being called a dwarf, and would prefer midget. I'm with the previous poster who said they would be laughed at. I'm part Apache and don't like being called a Native American at all. I mean, who is the one who termed America "America"? Apache's didn't call America that at all. At least Indians were thought to be from India and was a simple mistake! It's not a take over term. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 23:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It's always a matter of opinion when we're talking about which word to use, PC or not. (One of the longest-running battles I've been in is about the diacritic named caron, which a bunch of people want renamed to háček.) But the Little People of America, as well as most dwarfs, don't approve of midget. As for modern usage, the TV shows I've seen (the Amazing Race and various reality TV shows about dwarfs) use "little people", and the scholarly works used "dwarf". To use a word actively disliked by most of the people it's applied to, not used in popular media and not used in scholarly works is absurd.--Prosfilaes 12:17, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've always thought that little person was the most PC term. Dwarf is of course the most common, and usually acceptable. One book on dwarfs I've read quoted one dwarf as saying that they wouldn't mind midget except that it was always attached to the most rude questions and statements.--Prosfilaes 01:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Removed this line: "archeologists have uncovered a midget village in the heart of iraq."  No source

is given, or explanation of the term "midget village," the sentence was not capitalized, and I'm not sure whether this was a prank or merely a poorly worded attempt at a valid contribution. If someone can explain this "midget village" (and why it belongs in this article in particular) I would support its re-inclusion.--Cholling 20:28, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that this page should be redirected to "Dwarfism" because anybody coming to this page ("Midget") would most likely have meant to go to "Dwarfism". --SD1234 2:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * A mention of dwarfism is sufficient. The terms have traditionally different meanings, it's important to reflect that with different articles. ~

Lilliput
Although humorous as this link may be I see no reason for this to be included in the article. The only bearings on the story I can see is "Both are portrayed as being in the South Indian Ocean and are inhabited by tiny people who are "not six inches high"" which really doesn't relate that well at all anyway. Goodolclint 22:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the recent bold redirect
Enough folks have been tending to this article that I think a redirect, if it is to happen, deserves discussion here. Do folks think this should redirect to Dwarfism? I think it's a distinct term in its own right, myself. Figma 06:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC) ps Also see previous relevant discussion on this page.
 * I don't think there should be a redirect, I think it's fine As-Is.Trocisp 18:23, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Redirect
Figma, I was the one that edited the page. There really is no distinction between dwarf and midget. Somehow "midget" has been listed (under this Wiki article) as a medical article. The correct common medical name for any type of short stature (whether achondroplasia, dysplasia, or just plain lack of growth hormone during puberty) is dwarf. If you look at the dwarfism article, it is simply an expanded (and better cited) version of the midget page. So for the fact they are actually synonymous terms (look at FAQ of the Little People of America site), not to mention midget is NOT medically correct, there should be a redirect. :) --Aixo 07:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The best and most comprehensive resource about midgets and their interaction with humans can be found at Jerry Springer.org.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.213.25.12 (talk) 20:31, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And just to add, I realize many people have been taking care of this page. That's good, but it shouldn't interfere with the fact that under Wiki standards, there really should be a redirect for synonymous terms from the more "slang" term to the more correct, accepted term. -Aixo 07:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Aixo. I agree with you.... to a point.  That is, those who are looking up midget in reference to a short-statured adult should be redirected to dwarf.  But there are other uses of  the term.  Perhaps a disambiguation page is appropriate here?  Anyone else have thoughts on this??  Figma 21:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Height in the article
In this article, it says: "According to the Little People of America, dwarfism is "a medical or genetic condition that usually results in an adult height of 5'2" (147 cm) or shorter, among both men and women" But in the dwarfism article, it says: "The Little People of America (LPA) defines dwarfism as a medical or genetic condition that usually results in an adult height of 4'10" (147 cm) or shorter." Since the metric heights are the same, I'm assuming the mention in this article is wrong (or a typo) and will change it. --clpo13(talk) 18:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Trolls
Just thought that this could use a citation needed and might be vandalism so wanted to bring it to attention 24.60.249.119 01:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This page is often frequented by trolls. Do not feed the trolls by attempting to argue with them User:24.203.182.78 01:20, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Medical stub?
This article seems to be about the use of the word midget and doesn't really cover the medical subject whereas the dwarfism article is more technical, medical articles use the current official (if that can be decided!) medical term with pseudonyms and previous names redirecting to it. Since there is history concerning the use of the word 'midget', a straightforward redirect wouldn't be correct, but the article does not emphasize the technical article related to the term (in my opinion), any thoughts? Leevanjackson (talk) 12:44, 2 March 2008 (UTC) Midget is a descriptive term, just like calling someone a white person. Terms go in and out of fashion quickly, so this article should redirect to a PC terminology page as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.213.25.12 (talk) 20:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The main article for that should be the dwarfism article. This article could use an expansion of the history of the use of the word, and maybe a little more of the medical side of it, but the main medical article should be at dwarfism. Dwarfism is already linked to in the article so there's no reason for the see also to it. And the stub template should not be deleted because it categorizes the article as a stub, which it is. It's not a big deal if the stub is a medical stub, if you can find a better stub category you can change it, but don't just delete the stub template entirely. I think this article should mainly be about the history of the use of the word and the background to it. And also the derogatory implications the word has now. There can be a section about the technical medical side of it but it shouldn't just be copyed from the dwarfism article, rather it should be a summary of it I think; at the top of that section it can have a main link to dwarfism. If you're interested in this subject feel free to expand the article yourself, I've been meaning to expand this article but I've been busy and haven't had time yet. LonelyMarble (talk) 14:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I Agree, Leave medical terms in dwarfism, leaving article as one on the usage of the word, don't think I would have stumbled on the euphemism treadmill article otherwise. ! have found stub category to match ... Category:Vocabulary and usage stubs - This category is for stub articles relating to the meanings and usages of words and phrases.Leevanjackson (talk) 00:15, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Some medical info would help family members
This article would be greatly improved by adding at least one paragraph on what medical science knows about midgets. It comes across as overly political, and is not helpful to parents (or other family members) trying to get a little information about their children who are midgets. Even if the causes are numerous and varied, that information would be helpful here. 67.41.139.149 (talk) 14:52, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The dwarfism page specifically states, with references, "Extreme shortness in humans with proportional body parts usually has a hormonal cause, such as growth-hormone deficiency, once called pituitary dwarfism.[4][5]" This midget page, in contrast, is singularly unhelpful for little people and for family members, and contains a number of contradictions with the dwarfism page. It really needs fixing, or family members will leave it thinking there is no medical cause and nothing that can be done for their children who are midgets. I suggest adding a very short section on "Medical perspectives" or "Medical causes", adding the sentence and references above from the dwarfism page, and referring readers explicitly to the dwarfism page.67.41.139.149 (talk) 15:35, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Baseball
I don't know how common this practise is, but I've known some baseball leagues to classify some lower age groups of baseball as 'midget' league. Does anyone know if this is widespread enough to warrant a disambiguation? Tyciol (talk) 22:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Gene(s)?
"Unusual shortness of stature is caused by an inherited gene" I feel the statement in this article is a bit too assertive. I know a bit about genes (though not an expert) but I'd like to know how well sourced this is. I'm thinking about putting up an unsourced tag, or altering the statement to reflect a broader range of possibilities for the genetic causes behind midget/dwarf. For example, it may not be caused be a single gene (as the lack of pluralization indicates) but rather, be an affect of more than one gene, or perhaps in certain combinations. Seriously, if someone has isolated ALL cases of people being shorter to a SINGLE gene, then I'll drop it, but I'm thinking this is actually just a generalization of people being able to find a genetic association with it. Furthermore, it is not always the presence of a gene that causes a condition, but sometimes the lack of other genes. Sometimes it is the lack of some in combination with the presence of others. A really wide variety of things can affect broad physical characterstics like height. If we were talking eye colour or something then sure, that's more of a discrete issue, but with height it's not a matter of blue or green, it's a matter of specific measurements, which are pretty much continuous without any discrete divisions at all. Like if you look here: "Their short stature is generally caused by one of the more than 200 medical conditions known as dwarfism. " that sounds like more than one gene to me. Tyciol (talk) 22:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC) Also, prapotional dwafism, for which midget refers, can be caused by diet. Iodine, or rather the lack of, can cause it.69.154.141.114 (talk) 09:12, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No. NO. NO! If you want to do that, i suggest you get over to Uncyclopedia. Thanks.-- Editor510  drop us a line, mate  19:10, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

GOOD JOB!!! That is a much better suggestion than actually editing out all of the crap about weird al, monkeys, and mushrooms. thanks.
 * Well, actually, I was responding to someone who has since deleted their crappy reply.-- Editor510  drop us a line, mate  21:32, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

So was I. Can't we all see eye to eye on this? really... (talk) (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.108.186.37 (talk)

And now, back to midgets...
This article really should have a link to Jerry Springer, as this show has practically defined the term "Midget" and describes it much better than the contents of this article.

This article should have a link to J.R.R. Tolkien, who has greatly influenced whether we call ourselves (or ourselfs) dwarves or dwarfs. mikey

Show a little compassion?
Since the article is locked, I'll ask here instead of adding a clarification tag:

The word dwarf has generally replaced midget though the term little person is preferred.

... by whom? Is this an Americanism? In recent discussions with Americans, a handy stereotypical person with many many black friends stated he will be looked at as if retarded when calling them "African American" instead of "Black". The stated preference for "little people" here is new to me, so please clarify, perhaps with demographic preference information. 85.178.122.177 (talk) 21:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

How do midgets always get compared to black people? What about black midgets?

Re-write first two sentences
Suggestions for changes to the first two sentences:

"Midget is a term used to describe an TALL BEING because they love being tall and making fun of shorter beings .The terms "midget" and "jew" are often used synonymously, as both terms mean someone who has been short in stature since birth, but those terms were not originally synonyms."

First Sentence: Grammar: "a" not "an" before a word starting with a consonant "Tall".

No shouting "tall being" not TALL BEING.

Grammar: "They" after what noun? "Midget"? "a term"? "a tall being"? They, who?

Tone: not professional.

Second Sentence: Delete use of pejorative term: "jew". Grammar: "Jewish" not "jew" Meaning: Information is incorrect, synonym is not used correctly, meaning of term "jew" incorrect.

Recommendations: DELETE both sentences. Make personal statements on your blog. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.64.166.154 (talk) 19:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Conclusion- either raise the keyboard a little higher, or stop arguing about vandalism, reverts, etc. 74.14.133.253 (talk) 22:56, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 March 2012
Midgets are small beings and this can seriously damage self-esteem as a result of partial segregation in soceity

217.114.60.250 (talk) 12:49, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. — Bility (talk) 21:09, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Historical use of 'midget' to describe small things, particularly children
Edit semi-protected

This page has minimal reference to the use of the word 'midget' to simply describe things that are small, as was the common meaning before it took on its modern derogatory connotation. After the first line of the third paragraph ("Like many... derogatory sense"), I propose to insert:

By definition, 'midget' may be used to describe to anything that is small for its kind, and through the first half of the twentieth century it sometimes referred to children, particularly the very young. "Midget Playgrounds" designed for children under the age of four were popular in New York City through the early 1900s, and formal use of the word 'midget' to describe even young teens can be found as late as the 1950s.

Also, in the first sentence of paragraph 2 ("The term... person's"), please replace "person's" with "persons."

Arb243 (talk) 16:24, 26 April 2012 (UTC)


 * yellow check.svg Y Partly Done: I fixed the punctuation you pointed out in the 2nd paragraph. However, I'll leave your first point to be assessed by someone else. --Michaelzeng7 (talk - contribs) 01:50, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * As an additional note on the above point, this historical use of 'midget' was common, descriptive, and not derogatory, as odd as that may seem now. There are plenty of other possible citations for this, including the page on miniature golf, where the alternate (and formerly quite standard) name "midget golf" is noted. That 'midget' was a word in broad usage until it became less socially acceptable is why it qualifies as an example of the "euphemism treadmill" (as per paragraph 3 of this article). In answer to one of the talk points posted earlier, I would think the interesting social evolution of the meaning of this term-- from commonplace to politically loaded-- is one reason why this article belongs in wikipedia and not just wiktionary. Arb243 (talk) 07:05, 23 May 2012 (UTC)