Talk:Midori (violinist)

An Even-Handed Witch Hunt
who wrote:
 * "Propoganda supporting this rediculous labor dispute can be found at http://midoriandfriends.typepad.com/strike/"

This does not belong in an encylopedia, especially not phrased that way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.231.137.190 (talk • contribs) 07:51, 14 March 2006 '' Perhaps confusingly, there is also a rvn by User:71.244.94.127 and a counter-rvn by User:Mindmatrix in this talk page's history for this text. ''
 * Some (fairly dreary) background:
 * 4 (clumsy) edits by User:67.100.145.130 (13 total edits, all to Midori Goto, 10 on 2006 Feb 16 and 3 more in two sessions abt 3 wks later) added some partly unencyclopedic & arguably PoV language ("union-busting", "happily", assertions of fact made in the tone of arguments but w/o sufficient detail to establish their relevance), and also removed the entire "==External links==" section. These spanned 5 minutes. The first three of these carried the default summary for edits on that section (apparently the editor initially intended to place a 'graph just above it, at the end of the only prose section), while the last (necessarily, with the only heading and the text below it removed, a whole-page edit) was summarized with the single char "1". The last edit of the four also placed the new material as the 3rd sentence of the article (apparently as originally contemplated, since the 1st edit duplicated the 2nd sentence), resulting in there being, in the 1st 2 'graphs, 5 characters about the strike issues for every 4 older characters.
 * User:CClio333, 2 minutes after the 4th edit and 3 after the destruction of the final section, gave the summary "replaced deleted external links section" and in fact reverted the IP's full session of 4 edits. (This is IMO plausibly the result of viewing only the third edit's changes, whose only effect was replacing the edited section with precisely "asdf", and selecting the "rollback" lk next to it. I have not, however, ever had occasion to test whether this effect is what the server would do.)
 * 16 minutes after the rvn, the same IP did the first of 6 saves over 20 minutes, restoring the reverted prose, appending 5 new sentences at the end of the prose portion, and placing the lk referenced by the contributor who preceded me once in-line in the prose and once under the (previously restored) ext-refs. The new last sentence of the article read
 * It is a shame that a world famous musician such as Midori would risk her reputation to keep a few thousand dollars from 25 struggling music teachers.
 * Abt 2 days later, an IP (with one edit from before the strike-related edits) removed that final sentence as "clear editorial statements".
 * After abt 2 weeks more, an IP (with no previous edits & none since) removed the 2nd identical ext lk.
 * After another two days, User:Thinkingoutloud made the first 3 of their 5 edits to date (all 5 in the accompanying article). These removed all of the original IP's remaining prose except for the neutral introductory sentence of the second prose passage, replaced the rest of the prose with data (more clearly relevant, despite asserting "benefits" without any qualification that would make the information meaningful) on the other side of the controversy, and introduced the lk provided by the original IP with the PoV material complained about above. (So the answer to the "who wrote" question asked above is "User:Thinkingoutloud".)
 * Two cycles of more-or-less revert-warring followed, with each editor averaging about 2-3 days response time. ToL practiced straight reversion; the IP made minor variations, the most positive of which was, in restoring the duplicate ext lk, it changing the piping on it to wording the to suggest (presumably accurately) that its PoV is the one the IP was advocating for.
 * Two more IPs (total of two WP edits each to date) removed in stages what ToL's last rvn left. (One of them was the complaining IP above, who removed what they complained abt & a bit more, and the other is also the IP who removed the complaint from this talk page -- perhaps seeing the matter as closed & the complaint obsolete.)
 * --Jerzy•t 22:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge
The merge suggestion is made more difficult since the other page now redirects here. Someone might want to pick up some of the information at this revision and incorporate it here. --John (Jwy) 16:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * A basic discography would be nice, too. --John (Jwy) 16:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The reference is to a proposal on Apr 16 to merge Life of midori goto into (the article accompanying this talk page, namely) Midori Goto.
 * An editor removed the merge-from tag summarizing
 * remove merge proposal, which has been executed
 * but there is no sign of that meaning more than "if you ask for the one you'll get the other". I'll set up a mechanism for getting the content done via collaborative editing, and i'll do the history merge.

--Jerzy•t 22:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Citzenship
When did she acquire U.S. citizenship? Badagnani (talk) 05:06, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ten years later, same question. There is no source given. Japanese version does not mention US citizenship. --87.173.210.192 (talk) 21:57, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Guitar Hero
Removed the section on Guitar Hero, as the "Midori" character in that has absolutely nothing to do with Midori the violinist; Midori is merely a common Japanese name. Kids, please keep your video game references away from the pages for real artists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AliceTaniyama (talk • contribs) 23:57, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:52, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Midori Gotō → Midori (violinist) — Move to the name by which this violinist is commonly known; see her website, recordings, concert publicity. ReverendWayne (talk) 15:13, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * This does not sound like a good idea as the article is about the person. The policy is to use the person's name. The proposed name with qualifier, is not how she terms herself.  However no issue at all with the creation of a redirect. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Midori is the name she uses professionally. What's there now is a disambiguation page.  That's correct, in my view, as Midori is a common name and I don't see any usage that's clearly primary.  So, if we can't use the name by which she's commonly known as the article title, what's our best option?  When I saw the page listed recently at AfD, I was not at first aware that the well-known violinist was the subject of the page.  I suspect that the AfD nominator's due diligence per WP:BEFORE was hampered because many sources use the single name only.  My argument is simply that the qualifier (violinist) is more useful in helping the reader identify the subject.  More people know who Midori the violinist is than know who Midori Gotō is.  ReverendWayne (talk) 16:04, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose So deal with it with a redirect from Midori (violinist) to Midori Gotō.  Skinsmoke (talk) 15:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Redirect is now in place. If the article were currently at Midori (violinist), a redirect from Midori Gotō would also be appropriate.  But how is this an argument for preferring one title over the other?  ReverendWayne (talk) 22:52, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:52, 15 April 2010 (UTC)}}

moved why?
Anthony Appleyard moved this page within three hours, without discussion, hours after the macrons had been placed back, why?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 10:36, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Honorary Degree from Yale
In May 2012, Yale University awarded Midori with an honorary Doctor of Music degree. This is easily verifiable, but my question is: is it relevant to this article? How should it be incorporated? Yumehoshijima (talk) 05:51, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 16 November 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 00:37, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Midori Gotō → Midori (violinist) – As a violinist, Midori is know just under the name "Midori", therefore this is the correct name of this page. Aviscanora (talk) 16:16, 16 November 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Mahveotm (talk) 20:06, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 20:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The page has been moved before, and Midori is currently a disambig page, so this can't go through without discussion. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:36, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 20:31, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. I think the reliable sources in the article show that Midori is "the single name is used as a true artist's name (stage name, pseudonym, etc.)" WP:MONONYM (also apparent in her discography) and that it has "prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources" WP:COMMONNAME -Yadap (talk) 22:13, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Neutral I'm happy with the title as it is, but I'm not sure if it's the best location or not. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:26, 23 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Japanese name
The Japanese form of her birth name is "Goto Mi Dori" according to these refs in the article: Los Angeles Times "Born Goto Mi Dori in Osaka, Japan" and according to Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Musicians  "Midori (real name, Goto Mi Dori)". Sjones23 has repeatedly removed this name with these edits on November 28 and December 1:  with his personal opinion in the comments "Cleanup, Midori is one word only" and 'Her Japanese first name is just "Midori." No separate words.' But this is contrary to the reliable sources WP:RS -Yadap (talk) 05:53, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Even if the reliable sources do say that "Mi Dori" is two separate words, I think having two separate words in the given name should not be used and must be compliant with WP:MOS-JA and that's why I've boldly changed it. I'm only following the guidelines and policies as I have been doing for the past ten years I've been here, so it's just not my personal opinion. Meanwhile, I've asked and, two uninvolved administrators, for their thoughts on the matter. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:48, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Given her age, I would say that Midori (one word) is her given name, and Mi Dori (split) is a weird affectation adopted later, if true. Japanese two-part names are rare (common in Chinese, so may have been a misunderstanding by an LATimes editor which got repeated), and trendy kirakira names did not become a phenomenon for at least 15 years after her birth.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 08:13, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * PS-the Japanese (native), German/French/Italian (relevant to classical music) Wikipedias do not reference a split name. It's either a goof by a biographer or some US marketing gimmick.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 08:17, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "Midori" is almost always written like that, as one word. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:27, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * (What Kintetsubuffalo said, basically) The rules for registering a Japanese name do not contemplate spaces. Her name could only be registered as みどり in hiragana, or some combination of characters having that reading. The standard way to romanise this is Midori, and since the "birth name" is more or less by definition a romanisation of a name in a different script, this is what it is. Someone really should coin a silly spelling for this "re-lie-able" word, because it has just too little to do with the normal English meaning of "reliable". Imaginatorium (talk) 10:09, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree too. Frankly, the LA Times is a reliable source – for Japanese linguistics. It might be very reliable for who go shot in LA this afternoon. Encyclopedia.com is a tertiary source which is of no use in settling sourcing conflicts; reputable publisher, but very little is know about who writes what under what editorial control (if any), and it doesn't cite its own sources. In this case it's just copy-pasting from another tertiary source, Baker’s Biographical Dictionary of Musicians, so ... same boat.  Even if parts of Gale's Encyclopedia.com were reliable on Japanese, Baker's isn't, it just presumptively reliable for musician facts that do not require non-music-related specialist knowledge.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ &gt;ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ&lt;  11:46, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * So we have theories that it is a mistake, marketing or affectation. Although it's not the common way to write it, is it possible that it may appear as "Mi Dori" on some English language identification document? This was my thought based on my personal experience. I think there should be a note that the legal name is also said to be "Goto Mi Dori" because of this possibility, which is noted by prominent sources. The LA Times may not be known as an expert on Japanese linguistics but it has won many Pulitzer prizes. WP:NEWSORG --Yadap (talk) 18:01, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No, basically. There is no dispute about her birth name, which is 五嶋みどり. This can be represented in Roman letters (not actually "English", any more than "Lithuanian" or "French") as Gotō Midori, and particularly in cultures in which the term "last name" is used to mean "family name" (here the first name in order of writing), may be reversed, or the macron elided. But you ask about a putative English language identification document: where do you imagine such a document would reside? Does the American government send officials all over the world issuing "(American) English language identification documents" to such of all and sundry who are likely to become famous later? The origin of "Mi Dori" is written in the article -- for a time she used this slightly affected form of her given name, after dropping her family name in disgust at her parents' divorce. If asked "Is this your real name?", of the two acceptable options ("Yes" or "No"), "Yes" is a perfectly reasonable response. No doubt this was overinterpreted into the entry in Baker's as "legal name", because Baker's, while an excellent book (at least in Nicholas Slonimsky's paper form) is an American publication, and American publications are not exactly known in the outside world for their grasp of how anything actually works outside America. Imaginatorium (talk) 03:44, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I think using the same wording we do on some Japanese bands would be appropriate. Something like "Midori Goto (五嶋 みどり) who performs under the mononym Midori (commonly stylized as Mi Dori), is a Japanese-born American violinist." ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 21:34, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Japanese last name macron
WP:ROMAJI "To determine if the non-macronned form is in common usage in English-language reliable sources, a review should be done of all the related reliable sources used for the article" The majority of reliable sources in the article state the full name as Midori Goto except for two, Morningside Music Bridge International Music Festival and Limelight (magazine), which are less prominent. It would seem outside of the Nihongo template, Goto should be used?

-Yadap (talk) 17:48, 2 December 2017 (UTC)