Talk:Mihajlo Pupin/Archive 1

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on Mihajlo Pupin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130723003430/http://www.mihajlopupin.info:80/?page_id=9 to http://www.mihajlopupin.info/?page_id=9
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120827032457/http://www.zrenjanin.rs:80/1-87-17-0/Pocasni-gradjani to http://www.zrenjanin.rs/1-87-17-0/Pocasni-gradjani

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WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 06:40, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Idvorski?
He is best known as Mihajlo Pupin. I don't see the reason for putting "Idvorski" as well. -- Filip  ( § ) 23:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Me neither. WP:COMMONNAME makes it clear with the example that an article should be named "Tony Blair (not Anthony Charles Lynton Blair)" Jim.henderson 21:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

In the USA he was known as Michael Idvorsky Pupin. Pupin himself insisted on that middle name, which he added to his full name himself, because it signified the place of his birth. Marechiel 00:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Google gives 295000 hits for Mihajlo Pupin and 15700 hits for Idvorski. Therefore I am now moving this article. --$\color{Blue}\mathcal{M}$$\color{Blue}\vec{( e\ ,}$$\color{Blue}t )$ = ? 20:42, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Further, Google gives 183000 hits for Michael Pupin, which redirects here. Just so you'd know. --$\color{Blue}\mathcal{M}$$\color{Blue}\vec{( e\ ,}$$\color{Blue}t )$ = ? 11:39, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Loading Coil
The article links "Pupin Coil" to Loading coil, however the patent cited describes a transformer which is not distributed over the line. Pupins idea was to distribute capacitors in series with the line. I have no idea how effective this would be, but what I do know is that it would have exactly the opposite effect to loading coils as far as the lossless condition is concerned. Loading coils were invented by Oliver Heaviside, not by Pupin.  Sp in ni ng  Spark  01:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Since no one has responded to this I have made several changes to improve the accuracy here. Since some of this is not exactly complementary to Pupin I am explaining it here to avoid controversy.
 * Pupin did not patent loading coils in 1894, he patented them in 1899. The 1894 patent in the article is not for loading coils at all.
 * There is a 1894 patent for loading which was not in the article (I have now inserted it), but it is not inductive loading, and in any case it does not work. I have explained in the loading coil article why this patent is mistaken for loading coils.
 * I have changed "invented" to "patented" since it is strongly challenged whether Pupin does have priority in this, although he made all the money. Heaviside was first to publish, Campbell was first to actually make the thing work, Pupin was first to hire a good patent attorney.
 * I changed commonly called "Pupin coils" to archaically called . . because that is consistent with other articles and also my experience. I have seen no modern references use this, term although it did seem to have currency in the 1920s.
 * I have deleted outright the claim that Pupin discovered spacing of the coils was important. This was worded as if this discovery was an improvement on Heavide's ideas.  Not true, both Heaviside and Campbell were aware of the need to distribute loading.  Pupin IS responsible for the "rule of sines" to determine spacing, but no-one uses this, even in his day, as it overestimates the quantity of coils needed.
 *  Sp in ni ng  Spark  19:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Birth date
I have just reverted this edit, which changed the birth date from 1858 to 1854. I reverted not so much because of the change per se, but because it is unsupported by sources, and even worse has altered the titles of sources cited in the article in support of an 1858 birth date to conform to the new date. This is not on at all, it is misrepresentation of sources.

The edit summary reads "Birth date mistake, see original doc. at the Idvor museum etc, GFDL". This is not a source in the article and it is too vague to identify properly. Museum labels and plaques are frequently inaccurate and cannot be taken as reliable sources. Against this the 1858 date has some reliable sources cited including the American National Biography published by Oxford University Press. I also note that Pupin's own book says that he was 15 in 1874 which makes an 1854 birth impossible. I would think that Pupin would know how old he is if anyone does. If there is a reliable source to the contrary out there that can be cited then please lets have it, but vague references to museums will not do.  Spinning Spark  17:48, 2 October 2013 (UTC)


 * You are wrong about Pupin's birth date (on 1858). I saw the original birth document (The date is 27 sept.1854 -on the old youllian calendar,i.e 09.oktober 1854-on the new gregorin calendar) at the ortodox church in the village Idvor, Banat, Serbia, where was born prof.Michael I.Pupin.The same date (09.oct.1854)you can find in the Serbian Academy of Science and Arts-SASA Belgrade, in the book: Michael Pupin by acad. prof.Aleksandar Marincic. I also note that Pupin's own book don't say anything about that wrong date.

Birth date mistake was made in 1888 year (in the Pupin's Ph.Dr diploma),as prof. M.Pupin explained later in the a letter. User:Dusanh, 13:40, 06.October 2013 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dusanh (talk • contribs)
 * I have indented your post under mine as it is not really a new thread, hope you don't mind. So do you think that even the date on Pupin's gravestone is wrong?  I did not say that Pupin gave his age in his book, I said he stated he was 15 in 1874.  An original birth certificate is a primary source.  We try not to use primary sources on Wikipedia, see WP:PRIMARY.  We use reliable secondary sources.  This is because primary sources can require interpretation, be confused, be forged, or just plain mistaken.  We need secondary sources to interpret the meaning of the documents for us, we do not draw our own conclusions.  I cannot see any evidence that Aleksandar Marincic wrote a book on Pupin.  It is not in gbooks or WorldCat].  Do you have an ISBN number of an OCLC reference?  Who is the publisher or is it self-published?  At the moment we are still lacking a full citation to a published reliable source that other editors would be able to check.  Spinning  Spark  12:33, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Mr Spark, OK.This is not a book of prof A Marincic, but his paper about M.I.Pupin in the book: Zivot i delo srpskih naucnika (in Serbian), vol 1, pp. 263-289, Ed.SASA, Belgrade 1996. Also, Prof M.I.Pupin was the member of the Serbian Academy of Sciense and Arts (SASA) from 1912. You can find the Pupin's biography there in SASA Belgrade (This date is: M.I.Pupin (27.sept.1854-12.march 1935). See more data: www.sr.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihajlo_Pupin. Best regards, DH. ¬¬¬¬ Dusanh, 12:55, October 11th 2013, (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dusanh (talk • contribs)


 * Is this the right book? If so, it appears to be available on gbooks in snippet view  but a text search for either "Pupin" or "Пупин" does not return any results.  That leaves us with a gravestone and cited sources in the article that say 1858 and a rationale why 1854 is mistaken against a source I cannot read and can't even verify that it covers the subject.  I can't agree that the article should be changed on the basis of that.  What we really need is a source that discusses the discrepancy in dates and why it happened.  More sources giving one date or another doesn't really progress this.  If you want, we can open a request for comment to get opinions from more editors.  It is not relevant what Serbian Wikipedia says, Wikipedia articles are not considered reliable sources.  Spinning  Spark  17:27, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Have changed birth date to October 4, which is supported by his gravestone and by Library of Congress listing https://lccn.loc.gov/n79131988 Thisdaytrivia (talk) 20:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC)