Talk:Mike Pompeo/Archive 2

primary sources and politics
All journalism is a primary source, as it is not removed from the contemporaneous person or event. We won't have secondary sources until decades after the subject has ended. That you added what you did looks (to me) like a thinly veiled attempt to make a political statement. (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 16:33, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I am not thinly veiling anything. We do not need to wait for "decades" to use sources such as NBC or CBS, etc.  Gandydancer (talk) 17:10, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Gandydancer is correct. Coverage of current events by reputable journalistic sources, like NBC, is appropriate for use as a source. In fact, Wikipedia relies heavily on such sources, and the idea that secondary sources must be removed from an event by "decades" is truly absurd. These are not "primary sources", and it is incorrect to remove or deprecate them on those grounds. This isn't a gray area; these are textbook reliable sources. MastCell Talk 17:25, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Capitalization
Note "the 70th secretary of state" is uncapitalized because "secretary of state" is preceded by modifier "70th", per MOS:JOBTITLES bullet 3 and table column 2, example 3: "Nixon was the 37th president of the United States." Any proposal for modification to the guideline should be posted at its talk page, WT:MOSBIO. — Eyer (If you reply, add   to your message to let me know.) 23:57, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Ukraine Controversy
Mike Pompeo didn't say he hadn't read the transcript of the phone call between President Trump and President Zelensky as stated in this article.. He said he hadn't read the whistleblower complaint. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:A000:FF4A:2800:F58F:2BC5:A797:106B (talk) 22:25, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that's accurate. He was invasive about the phone call, but did not say that he was unaware of it. And I don't believe Common Cause is a reliable source either. It does have a left wing partisan slant. We should fix this. I'm on my phone right now, so I don't feel confident in making a proper edit at this moment. If no one else does, I'll edit it when I get home. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:38, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Resignation
Bit of an update likely needed. How long should we wait? Endercase (talk) 02:54, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2019
In the early life section, change "emigrated" to "immigrated." Emigrated refers to someone leaving, not entering a country (emigrated from Italy, but immigrated to the US). 98.204.64.162 (talk) 00:35, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done: please see Special:Diff/926406326. Thanks, NiciVampireHeart 04:22, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 November 2019
Change "2nd Squadron, 7th Cavalry in the 4th Infantry Division" to "1st Squadron, 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment".

Lt. Mike Pompeo served as executive officer, C Troop, 1st Squadron, 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment, at Christensen Barracks, Bindlach, West Germany, before becoming the squadron maintenance officer with Headquarters, Headquarters Troop, 1-2ACR. Deddygetty (talk) 18:39, 10 November 2019 (UTC) David Gettman
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Listing the names of people doesn't actually count as a source. Please see WP:CITE. NiciVampireHeart 04:25, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2019
Mike Pompeo DID NOT graduate first in his class from the USMA in 1986. He is #43578 and first was Eric D. Adams # 42882. That is a 696 person difference. Please look into this. Thank you, James G. Jajich, jamesjajich@gmail.com 131.150.142.126 (talk) 15:21, 17 November 2019 (UTC)


 * . You have provided no sources in support of your assertion, and there are sources that say he graduated first.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:35, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Apparently the source is the Register of Graduates of USMA, which is open to affiliates of the USMA. The other sources are less authoritative, and would have to give precedence to the register, if the latter could be accessed. This is the second time somebody makes that statement, and so it would be a worthwhile effort.--Gciriani (talk) 14:50, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Request
Repeating, now with duly required SPER code, the request to remove the hilariously petty recounting of the number of other editors in the sentence about Pompeo's law review editorships at Harvard Law School. The full reasoning is in the earlier request (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mike_Pompeo&oldid=927559295#Absurd_numeric_detail_on_Harvard_Law_editorship_selectivity_is_a_cheap_shot_that_never_appears_in_any_lawyer's_bio). Simply put, no other lawyer biography on WP or anywhere else states the number of other law review editors or links to the review masthead as evidence for this Original Research enumeration that some WP editor went to the trouble of tracking down and counting.
 * ❌ - Please obtain consensus for the requested edit before using the edit request template. Don't place templates in headings.- MrX 🖋 17:52, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Please explain what obtaining consensus means here. I posted a long explanation of the reasons (linked above) prior to the SPER request, which might have generated some discussion and consensus on this Talk page, but it was immediately deleted without explanation. In addition, it is simply an empirical fact that of all the thousands of lawyer biographies one can find online, including hundreds at Wikipedia, qualifying the law review editorships by computing the number of other editors is never ever done.  If someone were to cite a case outside of this WP page where anyone has published or requested that number in connection with a law review editorship, that might be the world's first example of this being considered Noteworthy as part of a biography.  I don't think an example exists, and I don't think anyone reading this believes that an example exists.  Statistically speaking there is already a 100% consensus outside of the bizarre Original Research done by a WP editor to dig up that information for inclusion as a snark against Pompeo.
 * Consensus is explained here:WP:CONSENSUS. The basics of contributing to Wikipedia are explained here: WP:PRIMER. We don't attempt to write articles that conform to how lawyer biographies online are written, and we don't even require consistency between article on Wikipedia, other than our basic content guidelines and manual of style. I don't see a problem with explaining to readers that Pompeo was one of several law review editors, but I also won't argue for keeping that particular detail. - MrX 🖋 18:59, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Press report about Khashoggi killing
FYI. I have not seen mainstream reporting about this.  SPECIFICO talk 00:25, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 * You are correct that The American Independent is not a mainstream or neutral source; it is a nonprofit organization promoting progressive reporting. And the source of their information, Middle East Eye, is also not a mainstream or neutral source. So I don't see any way to do anything with this, unless and until mainstream sources look into it and either choose to pass along this report, or independently confirm it. -- MelanieN (talk) 01:13, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Bio of Mike Pompeo
He did not graduate first in his class 1986,,,,,,try 696 try of 1006 !!! Please correct your info !! See the Regrister of Graduates USMA  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18E:C401:B190:657D:1D6:5218:4EB8 (talk) 12:55, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

I don't know what rank he officially graduated, but there were 1,013 who graduated in that class, according to the congressional record."Nominees There are 1,013 nominations, beginning with ERIC D ADAMS, and ending with BERNARD J ZOPPA JR Description THE FOLLOWING NAMED CADETS, GRADUATING CLASS OF 1986, UNITED STATES MILITARY ACADEMY, FOR APPOINTMENT IN THE REGULAR ARMY OF THE UNITED STATES, IN THE GRADE OF SECOND LIEUTENANT, UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF TITLE 10, UNITED STATESCODE, SECTIONS 531, 532, 533 AND 4353: https://www.congress.gov/nomination/99th-congress/1038 VanEman (talk) 05:40, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Umm... if he is #696 on that list, it would be because the list is in alphabetical order. -- MelanieN (talk) 01:18, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

"married susan pompeo" should be "married susan ..." with a former name.
I couldn't find a former name except on peoplefinders - what is it? Tadtman? Justice? Mostrous? Is there controversy here? I'm not being partisan, just wondering why there's such a silly error 168.122.66.210 (talk) 12:59, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Mattathias Schwartz in a Feb 26, 2019 New York Times Magazine article says he married Susan [née] Mostrous in 2000. Susan had a 9-year-old son, Nick, from her second marriage. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/magazine/mike-pompeo-translates-trump.html Nothing untoward, so why not document it? Johannes der Taucher (talk) 21:53, 13 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Born Susan Justice. Misleading to list her as Susan Mostrous.  Samp4ngeles (talk) 03:42, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

“Tenure” section
States troops were withdrawn from Syria in January 2019. Shouldn’t this say they were withdrawn in October 2019?Meeskite (talk) 04:26, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Mister Pompeo is Usanian instead of American. Incorrect use of the word: american
The whole dwellers of America, from Alaska to Patagonia, are americans. This is a logical, simple common sense definition. It is a self explanatory thing. On the other hand, the specific country of origin of mister Pompeo is the U.S.A. For such reason he and all the dwellers of this place are referred to as: usanians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.61.204.254 (talk) I agree — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.199.219.135 (talk) 22:03, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Usanian is not even a word. American is.Crboyer (talk) 22:55, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Biography
Secretary Pompeo’s father passed away last Thursday. The biographical information needs to be updated to reflect this but the majority of the article is locked. Friedpez (talk) 05:34, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion. Confirmed here. His mother is also dead, I don't know when. I changed "is" to "was" at the article's mention of his father. No other changes needed. -- MelanieN (talk) 23:36, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

IG firing
"Ousted State Department inspector general was investigating if Pompeo made staffer walk his dog and run other personal errands"

How can we integrate this into the article? FollowTheSources (talk) 15:27, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
 * We should wait to see where this story goes before we rush to anything. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:58, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Lie, cheat and steal
As was widely reported Secretary of State Mike Pompeo recounted to an audience at Texas A&M University that when he was head of the Central Intelligence Agency he was responsible for "lying, cheating and stealing" to benefit the United States. "Like we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." The notoriety of the comment stream will most likely stand out as a highlight of an American manager who is in the peak of his career. The comment should be included in the article on Mike Pompeo, he intended the statement to be as controversial as possible for his own benefit which he presumably equates with what is of "benefit to the United States." An autobiographical article of an active politician or official doesn't actively censor well known controversial statements. Whether those statements are a poor or conversely positive reflection of the individual has little relevance here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.221.70.22 (talk) 14:17, 16 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure it's well known enough to meet WP:DUE, which I think is the relevant rule here. That the statement was made is sourced, but it appears to be taken somewhat out of context above. Here is a transcript of the full answer. Sjö (talk) 08:06, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Pompeo's statement was reported, editorialized on the following incomplete list of sources: www.msn.com, slate.com, antiwar.com, crooksandliars.com, www.npr.org, youtube.com, politico.com, twitter.com, washingtonpost.com, nytimes.com, xinhuanet.com. WP:DUE here would be misapplied. Convenient censorship needs to be avoided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.175.48 (talk) 12:35, May 21, 2020 (UTC)
 * That's not what WP:NOTCENSORED means. Just because he said it and media organizations reported on it doesn't mean there is reason to include it. We don't include every WP:FART, even if it was sourced. Otherwise, we might be Kardashianpedia. There doesn't seem to be anything significant about what he said. Of course the CIA lies, cheats, and steals in its efforts abroad. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:57, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

The Wikipedia CIA article doesn't contain the words "lies, cheats and steals" in any context, I suggest that we add a description with verifiable content to that article. Manipulating symbolic consideration of the "CIA" is a signifigant appeal or a form of propaganda. The statement was strategic while seeming extemporary or ad-lib and was widely reported. A debate over the merits of the content of the statement aren't as relevant here. The context of who was stating them, the larger effect. The quote is and will be used for other purposes in news and social media. People will end up debating the statement on Wikipedia for example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.221.165.181 (talk) 16:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

error in photo caption
There is an error in the photo caption. It currently reads "World War II veteran Joseph Dunford being honored at Bastille Day celebrations on July 13, 2017." It should read "World War II veterans being honored by USMC General Joseph Dunford on July 13, 2017. At the time, General Dunford was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.185.96.57 (talk) 15:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

To add to this: It's obvious that Joseph Dunford was not a WW2 vet, since he was born in 1955.

first sentence
The word « Republican «  should occur in the first sentence, not later - otherwise it looks like a detail.2A01:CB08:8BE:AA00:74DF:BEA9:C97C:FEE (talk) 03:17, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Secretary of State/Tenure - 2020 Election
On the last paragraph under tenure, there is the following statement:

"In the aftermath of the 2020 United States presidential election amid legal challenges pursued by the Trump administration, Pompeo, when questioned whether there would be a 'smooth transition' into a Biden administration, responded, "[t]here will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration"."

However, there is no mention that this was an off-the-cuff joke, and that he proceeds to answer the question fully. I would recommend deleting this paragraph, as it is entirely misleading, completely misrepresenting the Secretary of State. At the very least, a replacement with a statement far more inline with what was actually said. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PostulatingPossum (talk • contribs) 21:15, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , we follow what WP:RS say, and what they say is that it was a horrifying remark for the US Secretary of State to make, given the role Pompeo should be serving in promoting free and fair elections. I haven't seen any source on what he "proceeded" to say. YouTube videos are not valid references. He was rightly pilloried for his remarks and we report on that. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:54, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree that Youtube in the vast majority of cases would not be an appropriate source. However, in this case it is a primary source. It is a video of the conference itself. The video includes the question, and the answer, in full, as it occurred. Even the source cited (npr) does not align with what is currently written in the article.

''"When the process is complete, there will be electors selected," Pompeo said. "There's a process. The Constitution lays it out pretty clearly. The world should have every confidence that the transition necessary to make sure that the State Department is functional today, successful today, and successful with a president who's in office on Jan. 20, a minute after noon, will also be successful."''

Having read the above from the article cited, "[t]here will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration" listed as the main take-away in the wikipedia article, is clearly a misrepresentation of the press conference, and the actual answer to the question asked. I would think that either adding a reference to the fact that it may well have been intended as a joke, or filling in the rest of his answer, would make that section more complete, and accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PostulatingPossum (talk • contribs) 00:11, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

section missing that Mike Pompeo is a racist
there is alot of superfluous details on Mike Pompeo but its missing an giant omission that helps explain his entire career path. The truth is, Pompeo like alot of US politicians are deeply racist, It is all the more important to expose the hypocrisy of claiming to represent all Americans by their own consent. He makes numerous racist statements while working in public office, supports racist policies of foreign governments like the UK and Australia, yet there is no section on the fact that he is a racist, he represents an population of voters that makes no secret that they are racist. Is it any wonder people are protesting?


 * I agree but have to follow wiki rules. I think there's no excuses to not mention his very public views on multiculturalism, in which has been widely criticised by american mainstream media. He literally tweeted out that multiculturalism is “not who America is.” That's just racist and also untrue considering america is a Land of different immigrants. There are many sources criticising his public tweet on claiming what america isn't and rightfully calling it bigoted and offensive. It should be added in. Sources below.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pompeo-multiculturalism_n_600706d3c5b6df63a91a42d0

https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-pompeo-says-multiculturalism-is-not-who-america-is-2021-1

49.180.161.139 (talk) 05:27, 24 January 2021 (UTC)