Talk:Mikhail Tukhachevsky

Untitled
"Polish origin" of Tukhachevsky is currently considered to be a myth (at a very least - unsubstantiated), and this should be noted in the text. Also, there is no reason to include his name in Polish spelling, since this spelling was not likely to have been originally used (no more so than any other non-native language).

Russian spellings
I'm sure we have a page somewhere on the correct rendering of Russian names, but I can't find it. Our current article is called Mikhail Tukhachevsky, but Google says that Mikhail Tukhachevski is the correct spelling by a ratio of 10 to 1. Do we have a policy? Where is it? Adam 04:03, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes - we're supposed to go with what most english speakers call them. However, as the Kiev article demonstrates, not everyone abides by the rules. I think there's going to be a referrendum sooner or later. &rarr;Raul654 04:05, Apr 21, 2004 (UTC)

Oops, actually I am wrong, the Google ratio is the other way around. But I still want to know, do we write Vasili or Vassily or Vasily? Semen or Semyen or Semyon? Konev or Koniev or Konyev or Kon'ev? The dispute over Kiev is different, it involves alternative Russian and Ukrainian spellings. Adam 04:09, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * If I'm not mistaken, one issue is that Russian passports used to (and possibly still do) carry translitterations following French usage, not English usage. Thus, Sergey is rendered as Serguei on those passports. David.Monniaux 07:14, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

OK well no-one seems to what out policy is, so I will do as I please. Adam 07:29, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Does it have any fixed transcription scheme for russian names into english? I know it has one standard one for Russian to German, but not sure if there is just one standard for english. andy 07:45, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

If there was a fixed scheme for Russian-English transcription, I wouldn't have had to ask my original question, now would I? There are several schemes. My question is, has Wikpwedia adopted one of them? If so, which one? Does anyone know? Adam 07:55, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

This is the nearest I have got to an answer (section 3.1 I recall). Pfortuny 16:42, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, but that doesn't really help. It is an argument about the presentation of names, rather than their spelling. It doesn't help me for example in deciding between Yuri and Yury and Yurii, all of which are widely used. The record so far is Marshal Semyon Budyonny, who is also spelled Budenny, Budennii, Budyenni, Budyenny, Budyennii and Budyonni. Adam 00:34, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

OK well since no-one is able to advise me I am going to follow what seems to me the most sensible rule. In the name Будённый, I am going render ё as /yo/ rather than /e/ or /ye/, since that's how it's pronounced, and I'm going to render -ый as /y/ since /ii/ although orthographically correct looks very pedantic. Thus it become /Budyonny/. I also don't see why Russian biographical articles need to use the patronym in the article title, since that is not the way Russians are referred to in English. This means I will be moving some articles. If anyone wants to argue with me they are welcome. Adam 05:53, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

War of 1920
Should I expand the section explaining his command over bolshevik troops in the War of 1920? Is it needed? [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 19:35, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)


 * By all means, provided you do not drag in a whole lot of irrelevant Polish history and associated polemic. (Just a friendly warning.) Adam 05:18, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * I love your friendly warnings... [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 08:41, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

This particular warning is based on considerable experince of the passions that Polish history seems to arouse in the breasts of many Wikipedians. Adam 10:38, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * You do not warn other "passionate" users of British, American, German, Russian or Ukrainian origin, do you. :) Probably it's high time you understood that there are historians in other parts of the world as well and we share the same set of values regarding the truth and facts. It's only their interpretation that differs. I'm not offended but please, don't be so paternalist towards me. Such paternal advise (or friendly warning, as you call it) is out of place and might even be regarded as offensive to some. (Just a friendly explanation). [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 13:49, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

Tukhachevsky Affair
Regarding the final chapter about the so-called 'Tukhachevsky Affair' and the framing of Tukhachevsky by the Nazi high command - with the collusion of Stalin, and the lack of new evidence. This is dealt with extensively in Vadim Rogovin's book '1937, Stalin's Year of Terror' (Mehring Books 1998, ISBN 0-929087-77-1 Paperback) - specifically Chapter 48 'The Stalin-Hitler Provocation' which deals in great detail with the collusion between Nazi & Communist Intelligence to frame Tukhachevsky. I will post something accordingly shortly on this.

Tukhachevsky: a holy martyr genius, or a bloody-handed terrorist/hangman idiot
German historians have recently discovered in the archives that he was guilty: he tried to sell Ukraine to the Reich
 * where is the data?

The text of the current version is but an echo of the Nikita Khrushchev time propaganda.I have read his "scientific work." I intend to add a separate section with an alternative biography/characteristic of Tukhachevsky (without modifying the existing content). Prior to that, I would summon a discussion here. AbuAmir 19:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

http://hem.lidnet.se/~agzybirlik/tuhachvski.htm: T. sent to Tambov. Original command texts about war gases, against civilians

http://militera.lib.ru/science/tuhachevsky/index.html Thukhachevsky, selected writings, free fulltext russian

http://www.aif.ru/online/longliver/01-02/09_01?print neutral analysis

http://militera.lib.ru/science/tuhachevsky/01.html tukhachevsky suggests to convert comissars to comanding officers.


 * Please, someone read Wiktor Suworow (Rezun) books. He gives detailed analysis on Tukhachevsky "revolutionary" strategy & military reform attempts (he advocated building 50 000 tanks during a single year - pure idiocy). Also, his "battering ram" strategy (detailed in Pilsudski's "1920") failed miserably. Tukhachevsky was just poor stratgist and war criminalist. --62.121.88.128 17:12, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The purges of 1930, when the men behind theories of modern war, often falsely attributed to Tuhachevsky - such as Aleksandr Svechin, were purged by Tuhachevsky are not even mentioned in this article. Some modern historians, for example, Vadim Kozhinov, are convinced that those purges hurt the RKKA much more than the purges of the late 1930s. I would have to agree with "poor strategist" and "war criminal". With respect, Ko Soi IX 01:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Rezun's research has a reputation for being disputable. (His assertion that the Soviet Union planned to invade Germany in 1941, to name his most infamous case.) Citing him as a source for anything is dubious at best. Smershx01 (talk) 09:23, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Rezun's research, however inconvenient and controversial it may be, is backed by declassified documents from the Kremlin archives. Tukhachevsky was glorified in the process of de-Stalinization, and thus any criticism of him fell out of favor. It is in the interests of neutrality that Rezun's research be at least mentioned Lothar_von_Richthofen 21:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * About "50 000 tanks per year", it was just lie. Tukhachevsky real wanted "only" 20 000 tanks per year. 50 000 was number created by Kliment Voroshilov, Tukhachevsky military-political opponent, who fought against Tukhachevsky in military and political questions. Many Tukhachevsky requests to Stalin were caricated by Voroshilov. I will find copies of Tukhachevsky letters, where Tukhachevsky informing Stalin about his real plans. In letters Tukhachevsky agree with Stalin disagree about "Tukhachevsky plans" presented by Voroshilov. Give me few weeks. --92.62.226.31 (talk) 21:10, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

return of the operations theory
Repression of the officer corps had nothing to do with the deep operations theory. --mrg3105mrg3105 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

references must be used with responsibility
There is a section mentioning Tukh. using war gases against civilians in peacetime. There are enough online available resources with the original commands text, yet Abune preferred to mention the 1939 edition of the "official com.party history" as a source. Of course this pathetic document can't be used as a source for anything but to demonstrate how flexible  truth  may be. And even if it was otherwise, the said "history" does NOT say a word about Tambov, Gases etc ! AbuAmir (talk) 10:44, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 12:19, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Daughter's fate
Did she hang herself or was arrested? Needs editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.205.212.200 (talk) 01:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * According to book of Сергеев Фёдор Михайлович, "Тайные операции нацистской разведки, 1933-1945." — М.: Политиздат, 1991. ISBN 5-250-00797-X, page 44: "Дочь‑подросток, когда достигла совершеннолетия, тоже была арестована. До реабилитации находилась в лагере. Умерла в Москве в 1982 году." which can be translated "daughter-underaged was arrested when reached adults age. Until rehabilitation was located in camp. Died in Moscow on 1982".Tõnu Samuel (talk) 04:48, 8 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I added now it to main article as best I could. Help in improving please :) Tõnu Samuel (talk) 05:56, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

wah...Montefiore ...
is NOT a source, c'mon! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.108.129.198 (talk) 22:12, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

"Deep Operations"
The article states that "Deep Operations" theory 'fell out of favour' during 1937-39 and was only brought back after the so-called failures of the Red Army during the Winter War. That statement is rendered completely false by the preceding paragraph, which describes its successful use by Zhukov in Mongolia against Japanese forces months before the Winter War even began.

Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 21:10, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Tukhachevsky Film?
As of this writing in summer 2010 there is a feature film about Tukhachevsky, uploaded in ten minute installments on YouTube. The transliteration of the title is "Tukhachevsky: Conspiracy Marshal". There are no English subtitles. Does anyone know where I can find a description or review of this film? It looks very interesting. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Sanity Inspector (talk • contribs) 02:30, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I saw this film. If I understand with my poor russian language, it is about cooperation between marshal Tukhachevsky and Ludwig Beck(chief of general staff of Wehrmacht) against Stalin and Hitler and about prepairing plot to overthrow these two totalitarian leaders.--213.220.243.20 (talk) 01:26, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

In popular culture?
I am not sure about this, because according english subtitles, main hero(commander Kotov) talk with brigade commander Lapin. Tukhachevsky is not mentioned.--213.220.243.20 (talk) 01:30, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

File:Malinovszkijcsalád.JPG
Unless, I am mistaken and the Tukhachevsky and Malinovsky family were one and the same, the photo File:Malinovszkijcsalád.JPG is placed here in error. In Hungarian, the image name clearly indicates that the photo is of the Malinovsky family. (talk) 03:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

According to Richard M. Watt

 * Is the person notable?
 * We don't quote here, we rather paraphrase.Xx236 (talk) 12:31, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Later a long quote from Montefiore.Xx236 (talk) 12:39, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

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 * 5marshals 01.jpg

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Temp - List of links - please ignore
Where did he go to school?

Gymnasium

Russian school web site which may be the same

Cadet Corp

RU Moscow 1st Cade t



Briticanna

US military paper

US Military paper 2https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%95%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%86_(%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0)



https://goaravetisyan.ru/en/zagadka-mihaila-tuhachevskogo-poruchika-imperii-i-marshala/

Ru:wiki article

Wakelamp d&#91;@-@&#93;b (talk) 11:31, 24 September 2022 (UTC)