Talk:Milford Sound/Archive 1

External links, references
I have removed three external links to travel agent's websites. I could not see any encyclopedic content in them, and they appeared to be in the article only to promote those travel agents, thus failing the guidelines at WP:EL. The reference for the use of the sound in The Lord of the Rings would not normally pass WP:RS; isn't this information anywhere better, like a NZ newspaper or an official LOTR book/website? Mr Stephen 09:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Post office rock
I reckon this is worth including in the article. Milford's first post office was this tiny rock at the mouth of Milford Sound. A rum barrel was hung on a tree on the rock in which mail would be posted. A white flag was then raised and passing ships would stop and sift through the mail. If any were addressed to a location they were heading it would be taken along and posted.


 * Would like to include this later on, as the article gets longer - currently, we are near the limit in terms of photos, before it startes getting too cluttered. MadMaxDog 09:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Gallery empty
I can't see any pictures in the photo gallery. Could someone fix this please? Truetyper (talk) 21:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It works for me - I see four pictures there. Are picture galleries in other Wikipedia articles (e.g. Picture tutorial) visible to you? -- Avenue (talk) 01:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Lead image caption
The caption for the first image says "Panorama of Milford Sound on a beautiful day.", recently reverted from "clear day". I want to remove the opinion as I feel it discredits the article, one of the first items people read is someone's comments on the weather. "Beautiful" is listed on peacock terms, sounding like a travel brochure. Suggested alternative is "Panorama of Milford Sound, looking northwest". If there is no dissent or better alternative in one week I plan to go ahead with this change. XLerate (talk) 01:13, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, although I think it would even better if we specify where it was taken - i.e. "looking northwest from ...". -- Avenue (talk) 05:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I strongly disagree - I think we are making a hobgoblin of a rule here. But I won't revert the change again. Ingolfson (talk) 23:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd rather get consensus before making the change. Peacock is a guideline, but I feel this is a bad case that needs to be fixed - I think it is like labeling Hitlers lead image "The evil dictator", gives the reader a clear message about the credibility of the rest of the article. Looking at featured articles for geography, I don't see any photos similiarly labelled - take a look at Yosemite National Park or The Catlins for example. People can see in the photo the kind of day it is, not necessary to have the opinion.


 * Oh please, invoking Godwin's law ALREADY? I said I would not revert it again, so go ahead. I just feel that it is way too minor an issue to merit using the rule on it. Ingolfson (talk) 04:12, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * With respect to the location I can suggest "from Milford Sound township". I think it from the road (State Highway 94?) between the airport/lodge and wharf/boat ramp, but am not sure. XLerate (talk) 01:13, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It is between the restaurant carpark (which you might call as constituting the northern end of the 'township') and the ferry/visitors centre. Pretty much here: -44.670927,167.928976. Ingolfson (talk) 04:12, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

population
It currently lists the population from the 2006 census. Can we update this with the information from the latest census? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.109.161.56 (talk) 06:25, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

needs clean-up — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.245.36.123 (talk) 22:59, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Milford Sound. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061001015157/http://www.orc.govt.nz/portal.asp?categoryid=53 to http://www.orc.govt.nz/portal.asp?categoryid=53

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External links modified
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I have just modified one external link on Milford Sound. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060619091040/http://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/galleries/travelnewzealand/ to http://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/galleries/travelnewzealand/

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External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Milford Sound. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070216175747/http://www.mitrepeak.com/cruise-highlights/the-elephant to http://www.mitrepeak.com/cruise-highlights/the-elephant/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070214141609/http://www.mitrepeak.com/cruise-highlights/lion-mountain to http://www.mitrepeak.com/cruise-highlights/lion-mountain/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070227193442/http://www.fiordland.org.nz/Explore-Fiordland/Places-to-visit/Milford-Sound.asp to http://www.fiordland.org.nz/Explore-Fiordland/Places-to-visit/Milford-Sound.asp

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Requested move 18 August 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) 03:37, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

– Proposing moves to dual names for the remaining three fiords in New Zealand which still have English names only. As visible on List of fiords of New Zealand, all other fiords have articles with their full dual names, leaving only the above three. Milford Sound / Piopiotahi and Doubtful Sound / Patea have had their dual names for longer than the other names, and both have wide usage in everyday life (including on road signs and video games. Moving the articles is also consistent with WP:NCNZ and a wide array of dual name articles for NZ geographic features.Turnagra (talk) 08:33, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Milford Sound → Milford Sound / Piopiotahi
 * Doubtful Sound → Doubtful Sound / Patea
 * Preservation Inlet → Rakituma / Preservation Inlet
 * Comment: All the others list the English name second. Why is this proposing to do something different for two articles? —BarrelProof (talk) 18:03, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: This is reflective of their official names. While the current precedent is to have the Māori name first, at the time that Milford and Doubtful Sounds were given dual names it was to put the English name first. As such, their official names are Milford Sound / Piopiotahi and Doubtful Sound / Patea respectively. I'd be happy to have it the other way around for consistency with the other articles, but I figured at this stage that it would be better to propose the official names. This is also the precedent from some other place names where the offical name lists English first, such as Lake Ellesmere / Te Waihora or Avon River / Ōtākaro. Turnagra (talk) 19:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Support We should have the order of the name components as per their official names as the common names match those.  Schwede 66  17:45, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Doubtful Sound / Patea which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:17, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 8 June 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc . talk  12:09, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Milford Sound / Piopiotahi → Milford Sound – "Milford Sound" is the clear WP:COMMONNAME of this fjord per Google ngrams. The proposed name has much wider use than the current name, having 50 news articles in the last year containing the proposed name compared to 30 with the current name. Scholarly articles also use the proposed name over the current name. Spekkios (talk) 04:05, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:CONCISE (the proposed name is half the length of the current name), WP:NATURAL (the proposed name is the most commonly used name, in ngrams, news results, and google scholar results per nom, as well as Google Trends results), and WP:PRECISE (titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but should be no more precise than that; the proposed title unambiguously defines the topic scope, while the current title is too precise). BilledMammal (talk) 04:17, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Clear common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:26, 8 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Strong Support We got too many articles with Maori names floating around the web, it is getting quite annoying. I suspect that there is a political movement going on at the moment. If we tolerate this any further, they will want to change New Zealand, North Island, and South Island too. In Australia, the government will never allow this kind of thing to happen.


 * Let's just move all of them to their English names please:


 * Milford Sound / Piopiotahi → Milford Sound
 * Stewart Island / Rakiura → Stewart Island
 * Manawatāwhi / Three Kings Islands → Three Kings Islands
 * Snares Islands / Tini Heke → Snares Islands
 * Aoraki / Mount Cook → Mount Cook
 * Clutha River / Mata-Au → Clutha River
 * Codfish Island / Whenua Hou → Codfish Island
 * Whakaari / White Island → White Island, New Zealand


 * Thank you. 2001:8003:9008:1301:DD39:BB04:EBAD:D9F3 (talk) 08:14, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Strong oppose there are several flaws with the original argument of the move (including non-English sources, using sources from before the name was changed, not taking into account different conventions for the dual name and so on), which mean that the actual situation is nowhere near as clear as they paint it out to be. Usage figures are clouded by the township in the fiord being known as Milford Sound and various businesses which predate the change still using Milford Sound in their name, and when referring to the fiord itself variations of the dual name are much more common. The dual name (in all its forms) is extremely widespread (even on road signs) and meets all the requirements of WP:WIAN. Further to this, some recent usage (such as in the video game Civilization VI) refers to the fiord exclusively as Piopiotahi while we don't artificially combine names on wikipedia, the fact that this is already a common form of the name means that we should use it in order to make the article as easy to find for all users, regardless of what they know the fiord as. I'm also not even going to engage with the abject fallacious racism directly above me. Turnagra (talk) 19:35, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Please show that variations of the dual name are more common. Also, Civilization VI has a Maori faction, which is why they use Piopiotahi. --Spekkios (talk) 20:45, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * They have Vietnam as well, but they don't call Hạ Long Bay Vịnh Hạ Long Turnagra (talk) 10:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Probaby because it already includes the "Ha Long" part. Please show that variations of the dual name are much more common. --Spekkios (talk) 10:57, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Citing use of Piopiotahi as evidence of dual name use is arguing in bad faith at this point, . You have made clear many times that you see dual names as one single name, not two names with equal status. If you want to suggest that we move this page to Piopiotahi, I (and others) will be more than happy to entertain that, but use of Piopiotahi is no more evidence for the dual name than use of Milford Sound is. On a personal note, I also suggest you reevaluate your attitude on this campaign of yours because at a certain point it will be regarded as disruptive. — HTGS (talk) 01:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I think you've misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to argue that use of Piopiotahi on its own is use of the dual name of course it's not. My point was that there is some use of just Piopiotahi, as well as some use of just Milford Sound and some use of the dual name. Entirely separate from any questions about which is most common, the dual name is the easiest of the three for everyone to find, regardless of what they know the fiord as. Apologies if that portion wasn't clear. Turnagra (talk) 09:25, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per BilledMammal. Milford Sound is the commonly used English name for the place. — HTGS (talk) 01:26, 14 June 2022 (UTC)