Talk:Military Intelligence Service (United States)

Author Edwin M. Nakasone (Bud)
As a Professor of History [Emeritus] Century College in Minnesota, Edwin M. Nakasone's The Nisei Soldier shares Historical Essays on World War 2 and the Korean War within its 4th Edition əreleased during 2012. This paperback book is dedicated to his four generation family ... "May they continue to remember and reflect upon their proud heritage." It includes biogeographical references. --EarthSea-Keeper (talk) 20:37, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Use ISBN-13: 978-1-930922-06-8 (alk. paper) for ordering.
 * Also see Bud's son's profile: LGEN Paul M. Nakasone

Poorly written / questionable edits
There have been a series of poorly written and questionable edits made from various anon IPs recently. Besides the fact that every single sentence of these edits contain elementary errors in English, there are some questions of what the editor is trying to infer, questions of source reliability, questions about the extraction of source information, and even if there is valid content there would be undue weight issues.


 * 1. The comment "During the battle of Okinawa，They tortured civilians" in the lede is inappropriate positioning of material, is a blanket accusation against an organization that would at the very least need to be limited to the specific circumstance (if mentioned at all), and the use of the word "tortured" is not clearly supported by the Japanese-language source as far as I can tell.


 * 2. The comment "during the occupation of Japan, Nisei oppressed the local civilians,And the abuse of prisoners" gives no indication of the prevalence of the alleged abuse. I don't have access to the Ishihara source, and no quoted material is provided by the editor.  Unless this alleged abuse can be shown to widespread and be confirmed by other independent sources, I don't think this assertion can be allowed to stand as given.


 * 3. The comment "They are considered more despicable than whites.MISLS Nisei soldier collusion with the triad.They has done a lot of bad things during the occupation of Japan" is inflammatory POV and is only sourced by the writings of an author known more for questionable conspiracy theories and fiction writing than journalism.


 * 4. The comment "journalists were banned from reporting the G.I.s Crime." is not clearly supported. For example, the source "http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~roehner/ocj.pdf" does not seem to mention the MIS at all and the source http://www.lib.umd.edu/prange/html/Yokote1.pdf did not appear to refer to any GI crimes.

I would like to hear from other regular editors whether they think there is anything worth salvaging from these recent edits.

&mdash; Myasuda (talk) 14:32, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * For now, since I don't currently have the time to review all of the anon supplied references, I'm going to let these edits stand (perhaps another editor can assist). However, this material doesn't belong in the lede, is clumsily located (non-chronologically), and is a non-mainstream viewpoint with non-English sources of unestablished merit.  As such, I'm going to isolate it to a new section and provide appropriate tags. &mdash; Myasuda (talk) 16:15, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "MIS nisei" and ""Japanese-Americans participants in the Japanese army and The Japanese Navy" are two different things.see:". Japanese-American service in World War II".59.63.155.110 (talk) 04:00, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

journalists were banned from reporting the G.I.s Crime
1 静岡県立大学国際関係学部教授 前坂俊之 日本メディア検閲史(下) http://maesaka-toshiyuki.com/detail/72

"0２ GHQ の検閲基準"

"米兵の暴行事件"=G.I.s Crime（暴行事件= murder, rape, etc）

2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Japan

Rape during the occupation of Japan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.41.156.58 (talk) 20:56, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

CCD(Civil Censorship Detachment)

http://www.lib.umd.edu/prange/html/ccd.jsp — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.41.156.58 (talk) 20:59, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

MIS ( MILITARY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE) and Civil Censorship Detachment (CCD)http://www.goforbroke.org/history/history_historical_veterans_mis.asp

"tortured"
" and the use of the word "tortured" is not clearly supported by the Japanese-language source as far as I can tell."

"軍政府内の住民用尋問室で日系人通訳に暴力を振るわれながら尋問された後"

"暴力" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.175.79.58 (talk) 04:51, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

A Japanese perspective？？
1 the Okinawa Report is based on official documents from the U.S. Government.

2 The American literature also admitted that G.I.s crime and banned in japan.

3 I Am Not Japanese — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.175.96.153 (talk) 17:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Your sources are a direct copy of the jp. wikipedia; they do not meet the reliable sources criteria for the english wikipedia for historical articles. Fifelfoo (talk) 01:36, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Add English sources
Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of World War II by John W. Dower published by W. W. Norton & Company in 1999

http://www.lib.umd.edu/prange/html/introduction.jsp

http://www.goforbroke.org/history/history_historical_veterans_mis.asp

http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~roehner/ocj.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.55.108.76 (talk) 03:44, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * AFAICT, UMD's site makes no mention of Okinawa or Nisei, Goforbroke mentions no torture (& has just a single mention of Okinawa), & Roehner mentions torture exactly once, in relation to Brits in Malaya. Not what I'd call a strong case.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  18:19, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * 1 Goforbroke mentions the Civil Censorship Detachment（Censorship organs).This department has many mis nisei.

2 John W. Dower mentions the Civil Censorship Detachment and “journalists were banned from reporting the G.I.s Crime”. This work belongs to the mis nisei. nisei acted as a whistleblower role.

3 the Okinawa torture Report is based on official documents from the U.S. Government. Although This news from the japan newspaper“Okinawa news”.

http://b.hatena.ne.jp/entry/ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-8595-storytopic-1.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.87.64.200 (talk) 18:56, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * That Dower & Goforbroke mention MIS activities or the CCD does not support claims of torture or murder. What you have is a single Japanese-language source of AFAIK dubious reliability. (I can't even assess that, since I don't read Japanese.) Dower may record CCD prevented reports of GI actions at the time; that's far from supporting allegations of torture or murder, by GIs generally or Nisei GIs specifically. Moreover, the section remains clumsily written & self-evidently pushing an anti-U.S. (or anti-Nisei) POV, so on lack of neutrality alone IMO it deserves removal.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  19:31, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * 1 "torture" is not the whole story. Goforbroke mention the CCD and the MIS of the link between. Dower mention the CCD “banned from reporting the G.I.s Crime”. This work belongs to the mis nisei. In fact, nisei acted as a whistleblower role.They prevent japan people know the truth.

2 Say it again,the Okinawa torture Report is based on official documents from the U.S. Government. Although This news from the japan newspaper“Okinawa news”.

Report Summary: Some nisei soldier used violence to torture Okinawan civilians. Thereafter these civilians were handed over to a U.S. Lieutenant. Some civilians were shot. It happened in June 24, 1945. us army made a report on the matter.A Okinawa professor found the report in 2005.

If you don't understand Japanese, please ask Myasuda ( talk ).Myasuda is an Japanese Americans.Or ask me. I am not Japanese, but I can read japanese.

3 the U.S. Government document is not anti-American(or anti-Nisei). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.41.156.108 (talk) 04:17, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * ♠"Goforbroke mention the CCD and the MIS of the link between" So? You've established a connection between them. Nobody, AFAIK, doubted there was one. You haven't established there was torture, nor murder, nor they were involved, nor the CCD suppressed or censored it.
 * ♠"the Okinawa torture Report is based on official documents from the U.S. Government" So show me the documents, instead of relying on a Japanese interpretation of them.
 * ♠"the U.S. Government document is not anti-American" The spin being put on this is, & that is the issue.
 * ♠As for asking you, sorry, you've demonstrated a bias in favor of adding this. And Myasuda has already expressed reservations about the quality of the sourcing, which is why I came to this page to begin with.
 * ♠You might also address the abysmal quality of the writing & grammar of your proposed add.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  13:34, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * 1 Say it again," News blackout" and "Okinawa torture" are two different things. "A" can prove to "B", but you say that "A" can not prove "C". What kind of logic is this? Have You Read About"Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of World War II"? The book, written in English.The author is not Japanese. This book mentions The CCD eventually banned a total of 31 topics.

2 These US army documents is a Okinawa professor found and published. "Okinawa news" is a credible newspaper. If you doubt, please give your reasons. Or you can directly ask the newspaper.

3 "A" can prove to "B", but you say that "A" can not prove "C". Your logic is very confused.It can't prove you are neutral. Myasuda is an Japanese Americans."nisei soldiers" are Japanese Americans.He is a neutral? 59.63.155.110 (talk) 04:01, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * ♠"'News blackout' and 'Okinawa torture' are two different things." Exactly. That Nisei were involved in press censorship in Japan, ever, or that MIS & CCD were involved in censorship, does not prove there was torture, nor prove there was censorship of stories about torture (presuming any took place & there were, in fact, stories about it). It's widely known the Army controlled Japan's media & limited what was published. This does not equate to suppression of stories about torture, which, I repeat, you have not established happened. What you are, it appears, trying to do is make out the very fact of there being press censorship was designed expressly to suppress the torture story, for which you have flimsy evidence. That simply won't work.
 * ♠""Okinawa news" is a credible newspaper." It may be. Newspapers have a long history of getting it wrong, & of putting their own spin on things. If, in fact, the story is based on original USG documents, in English, quoting them directly (with links to them for checking) would solve all my problems with this, because then, we could see what slant or spin, if any, was put on them by the professor, the paper, & you.
 * ♠As for neutrality, look at the tone of the add. It is not written in a neutral, encyclopedic tone. Compare the rest of the page, which is. It appears your first language isn't English, which may make grasping the distinction harder... It's not my neutrality, or yours, that's at issue, really...tho given you're the one trying to put this junk in, you've evidently got a POV you want in--& POV adds aren't neutral by definition.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  14:07 & 14:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * 1 " That Nisei were involved in press censorship in Japan, does not prove there was torture". Of course.This is two things.This is my point of view.

2 "nor prove there was censorship of stories about torture ".This is wrong. As mentioned before, The CCD eventually banned a total of 31 topics from all forms of media，Press banned from reporting G.I.s Crime (rape、Murder etc). If you want to know, and I can tell you: The United States Army even confiscated Japanese police files.It is the United States soldier's criminal record(I have seen these files photos).

3 You are on the "Okinawa news" all doubt, only your personal opinion. I still suggest you go directly questioned the newspaper or Okinawa Professor. The professor's name is "保坂廣志".the University of Okinawa.He can provide the source of the document.Maybe you can let Myasuda acts as a Japanese Translator.

4 If you are interested, you can modify these articles.

220.177.136.251 (talk) 02:02, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * ♠"This is two things.This is my point of view." That wasn't clear before. Thx.
 * ♠"This is wrong. As mentioned before, The CCD eventually banned a total of 31 topics" As I said, the Army of Occupation banned many things. Censorship in general (which I already agreed was happening) is not censorship of this story, which you're making out it is. Moreover, that censorship applied only in Japan. Where are the American newspaper reports of this alleged murder or torture on Okinawa--after the war ended? Indeed, where is it any time in the 70yr since? Where is there any English-language coverage of it? If there was any at all, I'd be far less skeptical than I am of a single Japanese Prof in a Japanese-language paper, both with potential axes to grind. (The U.S. military has had some serious issues of bad relations on Okinawa in the last 20yr, after all...)
 * ♠"The United States Army even confiscated Japanese police files.It is the United States soldier's criminal record" I don't doubt it. Again, that didn't apply outside Japan (AFAIK).
 * ♠"You are on the "Okinawa news" all doubt, only your personal opinion." I am, & it is. It's enough for me to question the veracity of all of it.
 * ♠"I still suggest you go directly questioned the newspaper or Okinawa Professor" Why should I? I'm not the one trying to get it on the page. You've got his name, & you read Japanese. Find the original documents, in English, & post links to them. (I'd say "quote the originals", but that, unfortunately, fails "no primary sources" or "no original research". It would, however, go a long way to persuading me the Prof's view is supported by what they actually say--if, in fact, it is.) You appear to believe the burden is on me. It's not. It's on you: you want it in.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  09:03, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


 * 1 You understand wrong. Why do you always say"torture".Please see

"during the occupation of Japan, through the formation of such organizations as the Civil Censorship Detachment (CCD), MIS linguists played an important role in News blackout. Between 1945 and 1949, the CCD nisei soldiers was responsible for reviewing all Japanese publications. The CCD eventually banned a total of 31 topics from all forms of media.journalists were banned from reporting the G.I.s Crime. Children's books are no exception."

This text does not mention "torture" or "Okinawa". This text mention only "Censorship" and "banned from reporting the G.I.s Crime". These things happen in "occupied japan"."Between 1945 and 1949".

"Censorship in general (which I already agreed was happening)","The United States Army even confiscated Japanese police files.It is the United States soldier's criminal record" I don't doubt it."

you already agree.You don't doubt.Thx. Say it again," News blackout" and "Okinawa torture" are two different things.

2 "I don't doubt it(The United States Army confiscated the G.I.S criminal record). Again, that didn't apply outside Japan". Unfortunately, The United States newspaper Not reported these files.

3 "The U.S. military has had some serious issues of bad relations on Okinawa in the last 20yr". Not in “the last 20yr”, but in “the last 67yr”. Please see

"3 Dead Marines and a Secret of Wartime Okinawa""thinking they were the three black marines who the villagers believed had repeatedly come to the village to rape the village women." New York Times, June 1, 2000. http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/01/world/3-dead-marines-and-a-secret-of-wartime-okinawa.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

"In Okinawa, US troops are estimated to have raped 10,000 Japanese women during World War II." http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33653

During the battle of Okinawa and after the war, US Army and Marines has committed many crimes against Okinawan civilians. American newspapers in the vast majority of cases remain silent.

the result is "The U.S. military has had some serious issues of bad relations on Okinawa".

"Some nisei soldier used violence to torture Okinawan civilians". This is only one of the numerous atrocities committed by US Army.

You doubt without proof.59.55.145.108 (talk) 02:32, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * ♠Okay, I'm going to say this as clearly as I can. Your position is nonsense. Censorship in general is not suppression of the specific story. You put forth allegations of torture & murder on Okinawa, & have been implying MLS & CCD censored & suppressed that story by reference to the general policy of censorship. That is a nonsensical & fallacious argument, & fails even cursory examination.
 * ♠"Why do you always say"torture" For the very reason I say above: you need to prove torture happened, then prove mention of it was censored. So far, you don't have a reliable source for either claim, & have persistently refused to grasp the distinction.
 * ♠"'News blackout' and 'Okinawa torture' are two different things." They are, & that is precisely the point. You've been making out the blackout was designed to suppress mention of the alleged torture, a case you have, so far, completely failed to make.
 * ♠"This text does not mention 'torture' or 'Okinawa'" Oh, really? The add I saw expressly mentioned Nisei torture on Okinawa. Do you now say that didn't happen & wasn't, in fact, censored? If so, it has no place on the page, does it?
 * ♠"'Some nisei soldier used violence to torture Okinawan civilians'." So, "this text" actually does mention torture & Okinawa, now doesn't it...?
 * ♠"This is only one of the numerous atrocities committed by US Army." You are, of course, free to demonstrate that with actual, reliable sources....
 * ♠"thinking they were the three black marines who the villagers believed" Lots of thinking & belief, not a lot of actual facts. Nor is that contemporary to the torture or murder you're claiming happened in 1944. (Nor, indeed, does it even appear related to it...)
 * ♠"In Okinawa, US troops are estimated to have raped 10,000 Japanese women during World War II." Is that a belief in Okinawa, or a belief by credible, reliable sources of actions in Okinawa? If it's the second, perhaps you'd care to find the sources Thephora's members relied on & cite them... A forum is laughably unreliable as a source for encylopedic content.
 * ♠"During the battle of Okinawa and after the war, US Army and Marines has committed many crimes against Okinawan civilians" Prove it.
 * ♠"'Some nisei soldier used violence to torture Okinawan civilians'. This is only one of the numerous atrocities committed by US Army." Prove it.
 * ♠Both of the above claims are unsubstantiated & entirely unsourced. Rumor, innuendo, & unnamed sources (entirely too common in newspapers, including the Times) fall far short of WP's standards for reliability. Neither is a forum site any better.
 * ♠"You doubt without proof." Read what I said. I don't need proof. I'm not the one wanting to put this junk in. You are. What you've got is a collection of garbage & flimsy connections masquerading as evidence. Even a forum site might demand more than that. WP most certainly does.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  03:16, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * 1 ""This text does not mention 'torture' or 'Okinawa'" Oh, really? "

I really mean it.Please see

"during the occupation of Japan, through the formation of such organizations as the Civil Censorship Detachment (CCD), MIS linguists played an important role in News blackout. Between 1945 and 1949, the CCD nisei soldiers was responsible for reviewing all Japanese publications. The CCD eventually banned a total of 31 topics from all forms of media.journalists were banned from reporting the G.I.s Crime. Children's books are no exception."

There are 'torture' or 'Okinawa'?

'torture' and 'Okinawa' in another text. two different things.Please separate the discussion.

2 ""During the battle of Okinawa and after the war, US Army and Marines has committed many crimes against Okinawan civilians" Prove it."

Schrijvers, Peter (2002). The GI war against Japan : American soldiers in Asia and the Pacific during World War II. New York: New York University Press. p. 212: "the three-month period of the Okinawa campaign exceeds 10,000 rapes of Japanese women by American soldiers"

Feifer, George (2001). The Battle of Okinawa : the blood and the bomb. Guilford, CT: Lyons Press "thousands of rapes were committed in the Okinawa north".

Koikari, Mire (1999). "Rethinking Gender and Power in the US Occupation of Japan, 1945–1952". Gender & History (Blackwell Publishing)

http://www.alternet.org/world/40481/?page=2 "So many military rapes have occurred in Okinawa, Korea, and the Philippines that Asian feminists organized entire movements in protest."

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/04/world/rape-trial-in-okinawa-reopens-for-3-gi-s.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7256056.stm

http://usmvaw.com/okinawa-and-japan/

3 “Okinawa news” prove that “nisei soldier used violence to torture Okinawan civilians.”(based on US army documents ).If you think “Okinawa news” cannot be trusted, then you need to prove your doubts. 59.55.145.108 (talk) 05:52, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Finally, actual reliable sources. Feifer, Koikari, & Schrijvers will pass. They don't appear to address the contentious issues in the deleted add. In fact, the Times & BBC links don't address the war in any fashion: the Times is talking about a 1995 trial. If this is the caliber of sourcing you mean to rely on, I'm wasting my time even discussing it.
 * This edit, which you repeatedly attempted to put in, clearly shows Nisei, torture, & murder. Cite it from reliable sources.
 * "you need to prove your doubts" No, I don't. You want to rely on it as a source. You are obliged to prove its reliability, or provide sources that are reliable. You've done neither.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  20:41, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "You are obliged to prove its reliability".

1 the "nisei Torture" is based on official documents from the U.S. army.

2 The story has a specific time and detailed process.based on 30 American soldiers Testify.

3 As mentioned before.During the battle of Okinawa,US Army and Marines has committed many crimes against Okinawan civilians. the "nisei Torture" is not an isolated incident.

4 The United States of America has a Consulate General in Okinawa.The United States Marine Corps has a division in Okinawa.They also read The "Okinawa news"(This is a basic duty of the diplomat). They have no doubt and protest "nisei Torture Report".

5 The "Okinawa news" is a credible newspaper.

6 "保坂廣志" is a scholar, have credibility. 115.148.147.244 (talk) 04:30, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You've done nothing but make unsubstantiated & irrelevant claims & offered no evidence & no reliable sources to support them. Newspaper accounts of events in 1995 have no bearing on events in 1944. The alleged U.S. Army documents have not been linked to, presuming they even exist. And I frankly don't give a damn what the Consul General in Okinawa did or didn't do after the war, since the claim was torture & murder during it. In short, you have nothing, & repeatedly citing the same unreliable & dubious sources does not make them more credible or more reliable. Which means this has been, & is, a complete waste of my time.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  05:36, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Not in 1944, Not in 19995年，but in 1945.The battle of Okinawa occurred in 1945 April to June.This is common sense! You even don't know The most simple knowledge of history? You are wasting my time! You really read this passage? Please see:

” Some nisei soldier used violence to torture Okinawan civilians. Thereafter these civilians were handed over to a U.S. Lieutenant. Some civilians were shot. It happened in June 24, 1945“.

“１９４５年６月２４日、米第１０軍第２７歩兵師団”（June 24, 1945，U.S. 10th Army 27th Infantry Division ）and ”日系人通訳“（nisei mis Translators soldiers）.

”日系人通訳“（nisei mis Translators soldiers）used violence to torture Okinawan civilians.Thereafter these civilians were handed over to a U.S. Lieutenant（U.S. 10th Army 27th Infantry Division ）. Some civilians were shot. It happened in June 24, 1945.

Source:『琉球新報』2005年11月18日（”Okinawa news November“ 18, 2005）

base on：米公文書 （Archives of the United States）

115.148.147.244 (talk) 06:19, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

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Adding Kunio Endo
So I was reading about Ex parte Endo, saw the thing about Endo's brother being in the army, and I wondered what he actually did there. I found [], which on its face indicates that Kunio Endo was in MIS (which makes sense). Should he be added to the veterans list? Kunio isn't notable himself, but since his sister is extremely notable, maybe that's good enough. If so, is this source good enough? It appears to be contradicted by [], which says that Kunio was in the 442nd, which according to 77th Sustainment Brigade was not at all connected to the 77th Infantry in WWII (although maybe someone who knows more about military stuff can explain this). Normally, WaPo would trump the Discover Nikkei DB thing in terms of RS-ness, but I just don't trust WaPo here; it's such a side note that I could totally imagine a journalist saying "I mean, what did Japanese-American soldiers even do in WWII? What, the 442nd? Yeah, that sounds good, let's just go with it. Who cares?"

Also, I'm almost certain the person referred to in the DB entry can't be a different Kunio, but am omitting that argument. Dingsuntil (talk) 07:51, 4 November 2022 (UTC)