Talk:Military in Vatican City

[Untitled]
Corsican guard links back to this page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.149.121 (talk) 21:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

According to their respective articles, the Noble Guard and the Palatine Guard were also abolushed in 1970. --Apoc2400 10:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Move

 * Why article talking telegraphically? This should really be military of the Vatican City. In 'Vatican City', Vatican is an adjective (elsewhere it modifies 'hill', as in 'the Vatican Hill'); here, it modifies the noun 'city', which, being singular and countable, must have a determiner (in this case, the definite article). In a similar way we can call Rome 'the Eternal City'. In other words, this is not a parallel situation to 'Kuwait City' or 'Oklahoma City' or 'Mexico City', where we have two nouns and there is no article. In the latter situation, the first noun effectively acts as a determiner, as does 'hotel' in 'Hotel California', 'lake' as in 'Lake Como', or 'mount' as in 'Mount Vesuvius'. No less importantly, 'Vatican City' sounds unnatural and staccato, while 'the Vatican City' comes naturally. Q·L·1968 ☿ 16:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Having seen no objection in the past two months+, I'll proceed to move the article from Military of Vatican City in line with normal grammatical English. Q·L·1968 ☿ 20:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Feed back loop
Corsican Guard link loops to the same page. Need a page for Corsican Guard! 76.171.210.251 (talk) 09:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Is Swiss Guard the military of the "Holy See" or of the "Vatican City""?
(1) Corps of Gendarmerie of Vatican City says: "Security in Vatican City is also provided by the Pontifical Swiss Guard, a military unit of the Holy See, not Vatican City State."

and (2) List of countries without armed forces says: "The Swiss Guard is a unit belonging to the Holy See, not the Vatican City State. There is no defense treaty with Italy, as it would violate the Vatican's neutrality."

but (3) Pontifical Swiss Guard says: "The Corps of the Pontifical Swiss Guard or Swiss Guard (Ger: Schweizergarde, Ital. Guardia Svizzera Pontificia, Lat. Pontificia Cohors Helvetica or Cohors Pedestris Helvetiorum a Sacra Custodia Pontificis) ... is a small force responsible for the safety of the Pope, including the security of the Apostolic Palace. It serves as the military of Vatican City."

and then (4) Military of Vatican City is not certain and accepts the possibility of both sides of the question: "[I]ts military defense is provided by Italy. Vatican City does have a mercenary unit of Swiss Guard. It is a small force responsible for the safety of the Pope, including the security of the Apostolic Palace and access to the entrances to the city-state. Its official language is Swiss German. It serves as the de facto if not de jure  military of Vatican City."

Also, (5) the Military of Europe portal links to this page re the Vatican:

Do we know whether the Pontifical Swiss Guard is in fact the military of (A) the Holy See or (B) the Vatican City State? Eagle4000 (talk) 04:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Assumptions of Logic
To quote: "The State of the Vatican City lies entirely within Rome, the capital of Italy. Therefore, its military defense is provided by Italy."

Although at first glance this may make sense, it seems to be a bit presumptuous. Simply because the Vatican City's boundaries lie within the another countries, and indeed another city's boundaries does not automatically assume "Therefore"[sic] it is protected by that country.

It would be similar to saying: "Lesotho's military defense is provided by South Africa" 121.215.2.225 (talk) 14:42, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120315045417/http://www.swissguard.va/index.php?id=252&L=3 to http://www.swissguard.va/index.php?id=252&L=3

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Proposed merge with Pontifical Swiss Guard
Oppose - such a merge would make no sense. (1) "Military of..." is a standard article type for military forces; and (2) the Swiss Guard is only one part of the historic Vatican military. Certainly the article could do with expanding, especially in relation to history, but it should continue to exist.  Timothy Titus Talk To TT  18:02, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree, but don't understand why this discussion staggers on. Then, since the Vatican City State is not the juridical successor of the Papal States, plonking terms like "papal army" here would be  devoid of sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Etrifax (talk • contribs) 10:09, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

The fact is, this article has a single topic, and the topic is Pontifical Swiss Guard. If someone were to write an article about the Military of the Papal States then ... we would have an article about the military of the Papal states. However, Vatican City was established in 1929 and it never had any military other than the Pontifical Swiss Guard. It doesn't make sense to "oppose" merging an article with another article on the same topic by stating that someone could also write an article about another topic. --dab (𒁳) 06:38, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

That is simply not the case. The Vatican City State has had four military units since its formation in 1929. The issue here is nothing to do with the Papal States (except as a historical note). There is only one military unit today, but there have been others. This is the direction in which the current article should be expanded, which I shall now do.  Timothy Titus Talk To TT 00:59, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

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