Talk:Milkor MGL

Untitled
Over the next little while I will be expanding this page to include information on the other versions of the Milkor MGL, including the USMC M32, which is technically different from the MK1. I also plan to move this page to a more appropriate title (such as "Milkor MGL"), and change the spec table to a shorter, simpler version (such as the one used at M203). Comments are appreciated! - Tronno ( t | c ) 00:49, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The work-in-progress page is here: User:Tronno/Milkor MGL - Tronno ( t | c ) 03:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The rewrite is done. I've scrapped everything but the final paragraph, replaced the table, and removed two unsourced images. Tell me what you think! - Tronno ( t | c ) 19:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks sharp. Nice job--Looper5920 21:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Milkor MGL
Very nice article but factually incorrect in a few instances.

The 40mm Multi shot MGL was indeed originally developed in South Africa. The design work was done by Mr. A.C. Piek. He developed it over a period of 10 years, inspired by the movie "Wild Geese" more or less in the late seventies and early eighties. You can check this with a professor at the University of Stellenbosch, Danie Els - we believe he works in the Engineering Faculty and he wrote a masters thesis on the 40mm system in those years. He may have done the masters thesis, but Mr. A.C. Piek did the design, AND development. Mr. A.C. Piek was instrumental in the design and registered a patent with regard to it and was subsequently awarded the manufacturing rights. Milkor was and still is the company that Mr. A.C. Piek started and used to develop the weapon as was the case with other related weapons, like the "Stopper". All patents with regard to the design lapsed some years ago and since 1998, a number of multi shot grenade launchers from countries such as Russia, Croatia, Bulgaria and Turkey were seen at international defense exhibitions. Milkor (Pty) Ltd never had any marketing responsibility for the product. The weapon was developed for the South African Defense Force and the first sale was to the South African Defense Force through Armscor. International marketing and sales was done by Armscor in the years 1985 to 1991 by one Andre Louw. In 1991 the marketing was taken over by Denel and still done by Andre Louw in the Mechem division of Denel until 1995. In this year Louw established a company called Milkor Marketing (Pty) Ltd and this company was responsible for exclusively and single handedly creating a market domineering position for the South African product - adding 20 new clients to the list of ten as in 1995. Export records for this product should be available with the South African authorities. If you do a check on patents and trademarks in South Africa today you will find no valid patents on the design of the MGL and you will find that the word "MGL" is a registered trade mark in the name of Milkor(Pty)Ltd. This is still an ongoing legal battle in South-Africa and internationally.

You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject. The information you posted here should definitely be added to the main article, but please remember to keep edits NPOV, and cite sources for your info. - Tronno ( t | c ) 15:08, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Understandably User: Tronno did not know better, but the above Comments that were added to this article in 2006 were planted as a deliberate marketing strategy by a group that has been trying to market and indeed manufacture the MGL illegally. I say illegally, because they were former employees of Armscor and Denel. Apparently some Wikipedia users have been trying to correct the mistake, but a diligent editor changed it back. The truth is that Mr. A. C. Piek worked and developed the MGL in the days of boycotts against South-Africa. No international trade was allowed. Everything was secret, all marketing done ONLY by the official government Arms producer: Armscor. Mr. Andre Louw was a mere employee at Armscor during the 1970s and 1980s when Mr. A.C. Piek was developing the weapon. Andre Louw was employed in the MARKETTING section of Armscor, and had NOTHING to do with the design or development of the MGL 40 mm. One Johan van Wyk was in charge of the people who were liaison to Milkor and Mr.A.C.Piek. (not Andre Louw he was MERELY in marketing Armscor accordingly nominated A.C.Piek for designer awards in 1986 because of his work on the MGL. The above mentioned Danie Els was also an employee of Armscor, (later Denel) and was commissioned by Armscor to undertake a study on the strength of the fire chamber of the MGL 40mm. This study became his master’s thesis. The aim of the study was commissioned test and verify the pressure of the chamber of the MGL so that Krygkor could standardize the ammunition. This was after one of the young men who was testing Swart Klip ammunition, was killed, when the round misfired, and the grenade detonated in the weapon instead of the target, after firing. Upon closer examination of Danie Els's thesis, you will find it had NOTHING to do with the design or development of the MGL. Swart Klip products, was also affiliated to Armscor and provided the ammunition. There were no allowances made for anything military that was not controlled and regulated by the Government. Mr. A. C. Piek was one exception, because he had already designed and developed several weapons, and was a registered gunsmith. He also kept his company going,(not government controlled) by manufacturing tools and a number of different shipping materials, which they WERE allowed to sell. Once the South African weapon laws were changed and international trade became a possibility, it seemed the right thing to do, to employ people like Andre Louw, (who presumably knew how to market the weapons internationally) to sell the weapons internationally. Unfortunately this was perceived, as an opportunity to make a quick fortune, by some who no longer had jobs with the new Armscor /Denel now that the government changed. These ex-employees of Armscor, then started a company, Milkor Marketing presumably to market internationally. Unfortunately Milkor Marketing proceeded to bleed Milkor dry, by running two sets of books. This meant that Milkor Marketing was selling Milkor's weapons for extravagant prices. (In fact pricing the weapons out of the market in some cases) But Milkor Marketing only passed a fraction of the funds received, to Milkor, the company who then had to produce weapons at a loss! Legal action to this effect is still ongoing in South-Africa. This comment (above) seems to have been placed during one of those propaganda campaigns, to try to destroy the private company, (Milkor) which had indeed paid a heavy price thru all those apartheid years, working and developing a product, which the new marketers (Milkor Marketing) wanted to cash in on for, themselves ALONE! I found many other postings on the internet, done at about the same time (2006), that was aimed to discredit the original designer and producer of the weapon, in favor of one of the Milkor Marketing companies. They often place links to their websites, one of whom, now call themselves Ripple or the Ripple effect. They do NOT actually legally have the manufacture rights to this weapon! This is why I would appreciate if you would allow the changes to the comments, because, quite frankly, it's simply NOT TRUE, and does NOT comply to Wikipedia’s impartialiality philosophy. The true designer is acknowledged in Jane's Infantry Weapons (in the late 1990's I think) The award Armscor r awarded A.C.Piek in 1986 is recorded in the local "Rekord" paper and also in Armscor 's archives. Furthermore The other weapons he designed and developed are still sold by Milkor and can be seen on their website Milkor.net, where the development is clear.


 * Dare I ask for a source? Koalorka (talk) 00:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I had been a personal friend of A.C.Piek before he took to designing guns. I knew him from when he was a farmer. He originally applied for a gunsmith licence when he wanted to help fix farmer's guns that was used to protect farms from terrorist attacks. A.C.Piek took me to see "Wild Geese" and referred to the potencial he saw in developping a multi-shot granade launcer, light enough to carry, as you would a regular gun. I was shocked and horrified to hear about the young man who had half his face blown away on the testing range. I have seen many people trying to take advantage of A.C.Piek. He still knows as all farmers do, that even though the farmer ONLY gets an income from the harvest, once a year, he has to keep his workers and his own household running all year. Every time a "harvest" came in to his "Milkor" others got greedy, and tried to get it all for themselves, not thinking of the factory that had to be maintained for years on that income! - till the next "harvest" This is lack of vision, lack of understanding and greed that has caused these legal battles.

Please read and comply with WP:Verifiability, then you will be welcome to add your information to the article. Roger (talk) 08:27, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Colombian army?
Felipe i havent see a colombian soldier with the MGL, what I have seen is the guerrillas (idk if FARC or AUC) carrying it, in the common image of the news with a group of soldiers walking by a wired fence in the zona desmilitarizada (i have no idea how that goes) of caqueta--ometzit&lt;col&gt; 14:46, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The Colombian Army does have them and uses them. My question is about license-production. I was looking around a Colombian Military website (unofficial), and it led me to believe that Indumil (who license manufactures the Galil SAR for the Colombian military) also license manufactures the MGL. Anyone have anything else to support this (besides my very rusty Spanish translation). —Preceding unsigned comment added by SAWGunner89 (talk • contribs) 05:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

40mm
Should note be made of its veriety of rounds and thier uses in combat? -- Climax-Void   Chat  or  My Contributions

A bit of "Trivia" info"

 * This weapon appears in the 2007 Transformers film. I did not want to add that without first checking what this particular project's rules about that type of information are. 70.153.189.211 03:33, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah added it thanks -- Climax-Void   Chat  or  My Contributions
 * I removed this entry because it's against policy. See WP:MILHIST for an explanation. - Tronno ( t | c ) 21:30, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, fair anouth -- Climax-Void   Chat  or  My Contributions

Pakistan Army
So I've seen this weapon being used by the Pakistani Army during one of their training exercises. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQLcqvL2rrg

The weapon can be seen somewhere around 2:00

I have added Pakistan as a user of the Milkor for now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xaveq (talk • contribs) 11:55, 19 March 2012 (UTC)


 * You'll need a better source than Youtube. Roger (talk) 13:39, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

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