Talk:Milo Đukanović/Archive 1

Relevant
How is this:


 * Milo Djukanović is a former basketball player, as such he is a rather tall statesman. At six feet two inches tall (1.88cm) he often towers above his counterparts, chiefly those of the far east.

Relevant to the argument? And are the only short statesmen from the Far East? - FrancisTyers 13:13, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

which argument FrancisTyers? I never realised there was one...I just thought that it was additional info. much like him being born in Niksic. Celtmist 10-12-05

The sentence cited above can be perceived as covertly racist and needed editing. I deleted the part mentioning "short Asian statesmen", as it does not deserve to appear in this encyclopedia. Besides, most of the article is HEAVILY one-sided and politicised. It certainly does not conform with NPOV policy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.240.3.162 (talk • contribs) 04:03, 18 December 2005

aaah that is different,in that case I agree with you totally. I think ALL polititians' entries are biased, if I were to believe everything I read on Wikipedia, I'd be a right-wing communist, I'd be an Islamic Jewish Christian with beliefs in Buddism, I'd be a human rights activist who believed in the death penalty, I'd praise U.S foreign policy whilst being Anti-War, I'd be a capitalist who attended anti-globalization ralleys, but most importantly, I'd be a bloody schizophenic, a man with a split personality about 400 ways!

As editor of the Trivia, I actually thought the information was relevant - those far eastern/Asian leaders like Imomali Rakhmanov, Tran Duc Luong, Hu Juntao, Enkhbayar, Pervez Musharraf, Yudhoyomo, Gusmao, Shiphandon, No mu Hun etc, they all know that are short and not one of them cares, they all laugh and joke it off, especially when they meet European leaders - you don't honestly think that in the Cabinet Room of Pyong Yang that Kim Jong Il is discussing nuclear weapons now do you? :) Celtmist 22-12-05

I read in an interview that he's actually 1,96m,thus I'm changing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.149.106.148 (talk • contribs)
 * is he really? interesting. Where are these details, I'd like to see them too... Celt 21 Apr 2006

I read it in magazine long time ago.I had the chance to stand near him at a political rally.He was taller than me.And I'm 1.88m —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.62.142.66 (talk) 20:43, 22 December 2010

Pronouncement
Pronouncement in a .ogg file is wrong. Accent is wrong. A is way longer: Djukanović. --Milan Tešovic 17:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Not true, Milan. Accent you're mentioning (with longer "A") is the way his name is usually pronounced in Serbia, which is irrelevant to the article, not in Montenegro, which is relevat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.240.3.199 (talk • contribs)

The Table
I made a major change to the article which includes his correct dates of coming into office, according to rulers.org. I also tried to make changes to the table, but they only show up when I am in the edit mode, while they do not show up when reading the page. Does anyone know what the problem may be? Academic Challenger 07:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Biased
This article is very anti-Djukanovic. It sounds like written by some bitter member of Montenegro's opposition. No mention of Djukanovic being praised as "young father of the nation" in major Italian press just after the referendum? No mention of he being praised by Javier Solana himself after referendum? Just that he made Montenegro idependent so he could enjoy immunity?! Half of article dedicated to lawsuit that eventually proved nothing? Very innacurate and biased article, expect major rewrite soon... Nije bitno... 21:38, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I certainly agree. It should receive a tag. The info about "ongoing criminal investigation" is flase and contradictiorial, as the text itself claims the investigation has been stopped. Any attempt to clear the text and remove the POV and bias is confonted with edit war. But, this is the case with most articles on politicians. Oh, well...we can but try and reason with them.
 * Anyway, it seems to be mostly the roduct of wishful thinking and contradictio in adjecto. Unfortunatelly, users such as HolyRomanEmperor give in to vandalism and edit wars before even discussing the problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.240.0.59 (talk • contribs)


 * HolyRomanEmperor, like Estavitsi, God of Justice, Panonian and many other Serb nationalists, simply does not swallow the fact that Djukanovic was successful in separtaing Montenegro from Serbia, letting Serbia alone during Kosovo War and after that bringing independence and separating the Serbs from the Adriatic Sea.


 * OK MaGioZal, I have changed my name a long time ago, and so has Estavisti. Could you please stop spreading personal attacks and incivility and spit out what's wrong? --PaxEquilibrium 12:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Date incorrect
Could someone correct the date of this guy's Presidency? It's incorrect. He became President of Montenegro on 15 January 1998 - and resigned on 25 November 2002. Also, it is not "unknown" who was the Premier of Montenegro - he was the first. --HolyRomanEmperor 17:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

He was certainly NOT the first Premier of Montenegro, haha. He is the first Prime minster of a newly restored INDEPENDENT Montenegro - so in that sense, yes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.240.3.225 (talk • contribs)


 * Ahm, he was the very first one. --PaxEquilibrium 21:27, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Sources needed for Warrant for his arrest section ASAP.
Unless some reliable sources (including some in English about the most serious claims) are added to the section "Warrant for his arrest..." then this section needs to be removed as soon as possible. The accusation made in the section are very serious and must be substantiated by source otherwise it has no place here at the moment. I will wait for some sources to be added but if they do not come soon this has to be removed to preserve the accuracy and trustworthiness of the article. Needless to say linking a public figure to a murder and white slavery is no small matter and it has to be backed up with reliable outside sources ASAP. Actually this should have been done when the section was initially added.. --Westee 18:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * As the entire section is a wee bit messsy, I do not know what exactly to look for. But you seem to know at least something about the subject, so perhaps you could check these links and use them as sources where appropriate?
 * BBC News: Montenegrin leader 'linked to mafia' from May 29, 2002
 * BBC News: Montenegro leader denies Mafia links from June 3, 2002
 * BBC News: Montenegro fights "criminal" reputation (see below subheader Smuggling allegations) from July 24, 2003
 * Green Left Weekly: MONTENEGRO: Majority vote for independence (see the fourth paragraph below subheader Djukanovic and Milosevic) from June 7, 2006
 * I'll look for more later, I have work to do now. :/ Peace, Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 20:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually I personally know almost nothing about the subject other than a little bit I read once about the smuggling charges. But the smuggling charges and even the arrest warrants are not the biggest problems, although the arrest warrant and Italian court decisions need to be sourced. The biggest problems and what bring the entire article into disrepute are the alledged connection to a murder and white slavery, all without reliable sources at the moment. I really do not know enough the subject to go on a search for sources. --Westee 21:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I have searched and browsed and read and surfed through the Internet with every thinkable combination of keywords related to Milo Djukanovic and slavery (not that many, perhaps) and found nothing. Considering it is an oh-so grave allegation, I found it best to remove until someone comes around and actually shows up a source. In English, not Serbian. Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 00:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I have edited the disputed section a lot. I'm also thinking, perhaps it should be merged with the section Ongoing criminal investigation in Italy just above? Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 01:25, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Picture from Dubrovnik frontline is not from there, it's from military camp near Niksic. It was a lot of discussion on TV's and other media in Montenegro about that and epilogue is thats not from Dubrovnik frontline.

In general this text is very much one side of the story. Suspects are already declared criminals in it. Rumors and gosip are declared facts ("contracts" with Italian mafia and similar). It is not mentioned that EU represtentatives several times controled tobacco transition over Montenegro and found no law infringement on Montenegrin side.

In general "mafia" story is too big share of the whole article, considering it is an episode mostly based on guessing. I suggest to reduce this part of the text to the level of real significance (e.g. 10 rows) keeping only the real facts inside. It is also important that facts are neutrally written, which is not the case at the moment because it sounds very much politically motivated. It sounds as Srebian nationalists had a great influence to the content considering their strategy is to decry Djukanovic with no scrupule, because they see him Montenegro independance creator.

One of the easy ways to see policial prejudice of the content creator is declaration of his suprise by Djukanovic extra 29000 voters in the second round of the elections 1997, while he is not suprised at all by Bulatovic's 22000 extra voters at the same time.

I know it is not easy to follow up Balkan's tricks and games from the normal world you live in. Therefore I would kindly ask you as the source I beleive in when it comes to many other articles to pay much more attention to this one (but many others as well related to political scene and history of Montenegro when edited by Serbs). Therefore I would ask you to put this one under the clearly visible dispute mark at least, while neutral article is created.

Thank you in advance Montenegrin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.143.100.253 (talk) 23:58, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Biased (2)
This anti-Djukanovic article will be heavily edited as soon as I find time. Whoever wrote it will get a edit war, because I have no problem with reverting the artice as many times as neccesary, as much as I have a promlem with this article about the man who is by far most popular politician in Montenegro, respected and reckognized as a democratic leader and father of the nation throughout Europe. Someone might dislike him, but that's no reason to ruin and encyclopedia that should be objective.

Which ongoing investigation is it exactly? Why no other agency except ANSA ever reported alleged warrants for arrest? Djukanovic travels accros Europe on weekly basis, why not arrested yet? What about "innocent until proven otherwise"? Who ever proved any of this accusations? No place for this bull*hit in an serious encyclopedia...

Anyone who hangs to distorted and inaccurate claims in this article should count on me as someone who won't let this stand!


 * The threatening and aggresive tone in your post unfortunatelly does not indicate the attitude Wikipedia is trying to foster. As for the actual points, Italian investigation on Djukanovic is well documented and properly cited here. The entire case is in the Italian legal system, and with all the documented details that have come out these are clearly more than just allegations. 209.82.51.154 16:48, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, man, but you even deleted the "violent" from the "protests organized in 1998 by Bulatovic's fraction", even though the mob tried to storm the government building and set few cars and a firefighting vechile on fire! Giuseppe Scelsi, who led an investigation against Djukanovic went into early retirement (so much about that), Djukanovic has an imunity now, so there cannot be an ongoing investigation, and Italian press has raised Djukanovic to stars after the referendum, naming him "the young father of the nation". Notably, he went to Italy on noumerous occasions, and never was arrested. When you vandalise a serious encyclopedia, at least have the decency to sign yourself in. And let go, as truth will prevail, and your pitty political propaganda will inevitably be expelled to a place more suitable than wikipedia.


 * First off, a little heads up - randomly and arbitrarily accusing one of vandalism in content disputes is considered a personal attack and is generally against Wikipedia rules of conduct. Additionally, your ad hominem attacks are not appreciated either. Such behaviour should stop.


 * The word "warlike" was removed becuase it indicates armed conflict and casualties, I was in Podgorica at the time and the atmosphere certainly wasn't "like war".


 * The fact that Djukanovic has imunity as a head of state does not mean that the investigation is suddenly closed. Also the fact that he's not arrested every time he leaves Montenegro doesn't indicate this case is dropped or over due to staturte of limitations or whatever else, but only that he has diplomatic imunity as a head of state. I will also remind you that case investigations last a long time (particularly in Italy - mob cases sometimes run for multiple decades). With thousands of pages in various reports, and issued arrest warrants these are not some ramblings by political opponents but pieces of evidence from a serious criminal case. Everything mentioned in this Wiki article in regards to the investigation is properly cited and careful not to presume guilt and I would appreciate it if you didn't remove that info.209.82.51.154 03:14, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Fake photo with Clinton
The more I look the more I am sure. When Djukanovic met Clinton in real life, Djukanovic was much taller. If they stand straight, Clinton can touch Djukanovices chin with his forhead. The photo is superimposed I am sure. Jordovan

Resignation
Isn't he still in office for the time being? It would be very unusual for such a resignation to take effect immediately. Everyking 10:31, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia, where events happen days or weeks in advance of when they happen in the real world. Everyking 07:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as I hear, he will be returning to office after short-term Zeljko Sturanovic.

Premier
He wasn't Prime Minister from 1991 to 1998 single-handedly. Those are two mandates in a row. --PaxEquilibrium 21:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Milo Djukanovic's Pic
My request may be weird, but could someone change the current picture of Milo Djukanovic, because it doesn't ressemble him at all, put for example the same picture that is on the french page. I can't do it because I understand nothing at copyrights. Thanks --Armin Ibrisimovic 16:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Siege of Dubrovnik and other nonsense
Take a look at this part:

"Đukanović's cabinet organized the Siege of Dubrovnik"

how could possibly the Government of Montenegro organize a JNA operation?! Even in today's independent Montenegro, Government does not command the army, president does.

Then, there's:

"most infamous was the handover of 200 Moslem refugees in 1992 directly to the Trebinje corpus at the order of Milo Djukanovic. For 23 days the Montenegrin police and Yugoslav special forces under Milo's command hunted down the Muslims until each and every one of them was arrested."

Make a search on the deportation of Muslims, and the command responsibility.

"Milo opposed the Dayton Accords which he criticized as being anti-Serb"

"The moment that sparked most controversy in 1999 is when Milo as President openly asked President Clinton to bomb Montenegro"

Anyone can find a source for this nonsense?

I'm tired of quoting for now, but this text has remained to be full of speculative and inaccurate informations. Will edit heavily soon. Nije bitno... (talk) 18:48, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

End of investigation in Italy
As the investigation in Italy has ended, I hope that edits that will ensue will not be reverted. I plan to shorten the section that refers to investigation, as investigation has not led to indictment, let alone the conviction. Here's an article about the endind of investigation. [] Nije bitno... (talk) 00:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Resignment
He resigned yesterday, so update the article about that. He resigned yesterday and was succeeded by someone. I don't know who that someone is. So please update the article if you know. 70.62.142.66 (talk) 20:37, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Dictator?
Djukanovic is an authoritarian ruling political leader with mafia-connections.--Edward Bergenwald (talk) 16:31, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

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