Talk:Milton, Massachusetts

There is no Edge Hill Park in Milton, Ma. It is called CUNNINGHAM PARK, located on Edge Hill Rd, named after Mary Cunningham who donated the land to the town as part of her estate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1017:B837:63C0:0:14:FC90:C301 (talk) 18:39, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Untitled
Note: I have cleaned up this talk page by putting all of the "East Milton Irish" stuff together. SaintCyprian  Talk  17:27, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Introduction
I removed the statement in the first paragraph that suggested that East Milton has a higher Irish population than the rest of Milton. The references cited did not provide any information to support this claim, and that sort of information is inappropriate for an introduction in an article about the town as a whole. SaintCyprian  Talk  02:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Continued
There is little reason to believe that the Irish of Milton are mainly in East Milton. East Milton borders Quincy, not a traditional Irish community, whereas "Northern" parts of Milton are bordering strongly Irish communities in Dorchester. I agree that the working class neighborhoods of East Milton could house a significant Irish population but it is a childish and unfair assumption that they are "mostly" in East Milton. Also, though I made the initial edit, the article Irish American claimed Marshfield, MA as the most Irish town in America with 48% of 26,000 residents as Irish. The Milton article is cited as having 38% of our 26,000 residents as Irish descent (a very similar figure), while the Marshfield, MA article lists a population of 24,200 with no emphasis on Irish descent, let alone "Most Irish". I hardly think this was malicious but it is a mistake that should be corrected and enforced.

Continued (Again)
I have deleted the end of the first paragraph which states that East Milton is a working class neighborhood for two reasons. Firstly, it cannot be sufficiently proven (the citation that follows it says nothing about any part of Milton being "working class"). Secondly, I fear that the statement has not been included in order to accurately convey the truth about the town, but in order to promote the nostalgic "Irish" views of a small demographic of Milton's inhabitants (namely a few High School and College students). In other words, it is unfair to the people who actually put work into the article that the first paragraph is being hijacked by townies. Also, given the sensitivity and vagueness of the term "working class", it is inappropriate to throw it around (you can see why it might offend people who are not from East Milton to effectively imply that they do not work). Because of this I am deleting the statement. If it reappears, the article may have to be locked to prevent further vandalism.

Continued (for the last time)
http://www.epodunk.com/top10/irish/index.html Dough007 (talk) 04:44, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Being a Milton native of irish decent, and also a resident of East Milton as it where, I second the notion not to include the irish heritage and East Milton romance sections until they are cited by reasonable sources. I grew up believing that the town did hold that distinction, but until that is cited in a reliable source, I will make sure it is not included.  Wikipedia is not a  place to romanticize the town, cited facts rule the day here.  Here is the only link I found...

comments by Brice44
It is not just me who refers to my neighborhood of East Milton as “The E”. It is grandmothers on my street, union workers, community activists and teachers who refer to East Milton as “ The E.” It is a tight knit community, and tight knit communities are what make America so special.

By no means did I mean to offend anyone by using the term “working class” or “ blue collar”. On my street alone, there were 5 kids my age growing up who went off to fight in the war, three marines two more in the Army. In my brother’s class there were four more who went over seas to serve and are still serving over in IRAQ. My youngest brother who just graduated there are six young men who went off to fight overseas on our block alone. I am not even mentioning the other streets in East Milton. I mean if that is not “Blue collar”, or “working class” I do not know what is.

When these young men get a chance to show their fellow servicemen that they come from a working class neighborhood not an affluent town it makes them feel special.

I am a reasonable person. If we can find another word to substitute the term “working class”, I will never make another change to that page again. For one, I really do appreciate all the time and effort you have put forth and the great job you have done on this page.

Distinction between east and west
I do think there should be a distinction between East and West Milton. East Milton is a blue collar neighborhood where most of the kids grow up and go to public schools. While West Milton is associated with Eastern Establishmenrt wealth and privelage. The neighborhoods are extemely wealthy, (Inidian Cliffs, Milton Academy) and mosy of the kids attend private schools. There should be a distinction noted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brice44 (talk • contribs)


 * Growing up in Milton I have noticed that there is a huge wealth gap as well as very little geographical division between incomes (I don't believe the median and per capita incomes are a fair portrait of the majority of Milton's residents). Indian Cliffs is so secluded it would be inaccurate to label it part of West Milton, I know no one who would classify it as such. Both sides of Blue Hill Ave in West Milton, up and down Thatcher st., Blue Hill parkway and surrounding neighborhoods, especially towards Mattapan, certainly are comprised of 'blue collar' workers. While in East Milton you have neighborhoods running up and down Adams St which are very affluent. So the point is Milton as a whole is very heterogeneous and unlike many other towns, you can drive a couple of minutes (on both sides of town) from mansions to 2+ family housing. 63.76.234.51 16:44, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * All of this talk of East and West is nonsense. It is purely the opinion of the resident, whether they live "east" or "west", and has nothing to do with the actual geography. For instance, people living in the exact center of town say that they live in the "east side", and people who live in the north of town are said to live in the "west side". "East" and "west" have come to mean "rich" and "poor", at least to some residents, and neither of these generalizations are correct, as Brice44 has pointed out, above. It would be nice if all the ignoramuses living in this town would grow up and stop vandalizing the article with ridiculous unsourced statements that border on racism. Any and all vandalism, unsourced statements, opinions, rumors, and hearsay found in this article will be speedily deleted. Fuzzform 17:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

East milton residents, take offense when they are associated with the other elitest parts of West Milton ( Milton Academy, Centre St, Blue Hill Ave). East Milton is a traditional Irish Catholic community. The kids who grow up in east Milton grow up with a sense of pride and loyalty that they hold with them the rest of their lives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.214.71 (talk) 14:02, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to edit the article because I have no source other than my personal experiences: I went Milton High School (class of 2004). East Milton was not working class or blue collar. The students from East Milton were the most affluent people in the public schools and taunted those of use who lived in West Milton by saying that we lived "Murder-pan." They were the kids with coach bags expensive shoes. NOT WORKING CLASS. 173.79.197.76 (talk) 23:30, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

For review

 * All the schools have recently been renovated or rebuilt. Over the years the schools were not properly maintained and fell into a state of disrepair (Milton High in paticular, which was built in 1909). Work on Glover, Tucker, Pierce, and Milton High has been completed; whereas Collicot and Cuningham elementary schools are currently under construction.

This sounds slightly POV, and is also self-contradictory. A correct, NPOV replacement which cites sources is needed. -- Beland 14:31, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

i grew up on thacher street in a 2 family house with 8 people..... dont call me rich... and all the blacks ad other ethnic groups are living in west milton..... get ure facts straightened out guy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.177.76.157 (talk) 04:16, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Public Schools
Collicot and Cunningham are now, in fact, becoming the same school in a massive renovation project. Though they will be connected, it is unknown whether they will stay seperate or actually join administratively.

Wind
According to Modern Marvels, Milton is the windiest city in the US with average winds of just over 15mph. Is that right? —Ben FrantzDale (talk) 21:27, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

This is in fact true. Never knew that. Here is a link: http://www.forbes.com/2007/07/20/weather-storms-us-biz-cx_tvr_0720weather.html, feel free to add it.Dough007 (talk) 01:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I have removed the wind claim in the first paragraph, which read, "In addition to being the 5th Best Place to Live in America, Milton is also the country's windiest city according to Forbes Magazine. "


 * This was junk reporting of the worst kind -- the wind is measured at the Blue Hill Meteorological Observatory on top of Great Blue Hill which is not Milton proper. By that reasoning, the village of Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, is the windiest town in the United States, because it lies at the base of Mount Washington, which had the highest wind recorded on earth. . . . . Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk • contribs) 11:43, 4 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Unless you can find a reliable source backing up your position on this, I'd say you're indulging in original research. I've readded the claim to the "climate" section of the article, with citation of course.--Father Goose (talk) 04:31, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Where's the OR? It is obvious that although the top of Great Blue is within the geographic bounds of Milton, it is only one point in the town and is no more representative of Milton than the top of the Sears Tower is representative of all of Chicago. And, by the way, the Forbes cite says that Great Blue is "the highest peak within 10 miles of the Atlantic", which completely forgets Cadillac Mountain which is both closer to the Atlantic and 2 1/2 times higher. As I said, junk reporting. . . Jim - Jameslwoodward (talk to me • contribs)  12:45, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Weather stations tend to be elevated. New York City's reported weather, for instance, is whatever reading they take at the top of Belvedere Castle, which NOAA lists as being at 144 feet, well above NYC's 33 foot average.  If you look up Milton's weather, they report back conditions at Blue Hill.  Bretton Wood's weather is measured at Mount Washington Regional Airport, not at the top of Mount Washington.
 * That said, I agree that the available reporting is not especially sharp, but until a reliable source does a more exhaustive analysis, Milton gets to be called the windiest.--Father Goose (talk) 19:59, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't agree. Milton should not be saddled with a negative attribute simply because the NWS arbitrarily picked an unusual place for the official point (yes, I'm aware of the long history of the Great Blue Hill Weather Station).  If the NWS had picked the top of Mt. Washington -- logical, another station with a long history -- rather than the airport, then Bretton Woods would be the windiest town.  The fact is also distorted by the fact that in Massachusetts, as in most (all?) of New England, there are no unincorporated areas, while in the western United States there are many places with higher average winds that do not fall in towns.  Note also that there are no wind farms in Milton -- no wind mills of any size that I know of.  Wind farms in the US are typically placed in areas of high average winds -- the Great Plains and California -- not in the Northeast. . . Jim - Jameslwoodward (talk to me • contribs)  20:16, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Wind power in Massachusetts. You've probably seen that turbine on I-93, as have I.  That there aren't more is probably due to a lack of available space, coupled with a lot of NIMBY, such as what Cape Wind has encountered.  In NOAA's data, Boston is listed as having the highest winds of any large city – that data was probably measured at Logan.  Maybe Milton gets an additional boost from Blue Hill, but the Boston area is windy, so the reading is not necessarily a fluke.


 * As for the wind being a "negative attribute" – I find it to be an entertaining quirk. But perhaps your perception of it being negative is motivating you to avoid mentioning it, in which case that's an NPOV problem.  I don't see you complaining about the arbitrariness of Money Magazine's junk reporting.--Father Goose (talk) 21:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Retarc?
Why is there a link to Retarc (which re-directs to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidence_crater) under Points of Interest? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.38.202.26 (talk) 04:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Bad link
Transportation

Cycling is a popular form of transportation and recreation in Milton. The opening of the Neponset River Greenway reconnected Milton with Boston Harbor via via Port Norfolk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Norfolk)

link resolves to page about Port Norfolk Historic District in Portsmouth Virginia.

24.91.171.47 (talk) 19:04, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

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Capitalization: "China Trade" or "China trade"?
Is there a local reason that Trade is capitalized? If speaking generally about trade with China, and in the absence of a company actually named China Trade, it seems to me that "trade" should not be capitalized. Can someone shed some light on this? Thanks! 1980fast (talk) 03:56, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Housing policy section
Hi everyone,

Is there anything wrong with the "Housing policy" section of the article that warrants its deletion? — AP 499D25  (talk)  13:11, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Special elections happen all the time in US cities, and typically aren't included unless they are very notable. WP:USCITIES doesn't mention including them.  If this was a particularly notable election, then sure, include details and results in the "history section", but there's no need to add the Boston Globe's racial analysis, of which the Globe writes, "nuance abounds". Magnolia677 (talk) 16:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It's being removed, without explanation, because NIMBYs don't like it. Maybe it doesn't belong in a separate section, but Milton voted in favor of breaking state law in the special election, which has gotten plenty attention in the Boston area since it happened. Jessintime (talk) 17:02, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for asking. There is much wrong with this "Housing policy" section:
 * "In 2024, a majority of Milton voters voted for the town to violate Massachusetts state law on housing and not comply with state law to permit multi-family housing near MBTA stations. Predominantly white neighborhoods voted to not comply with state law while more diverse neighborhoods vote in support of permitting multi-family housing."
 * It is factually not correct and it contains overt accusations of racism where none occurred.
 * First of all, the Town of Milton did not "vote to violate Massachusetts state law". The vote was solely about accepting or rejecting a specific zoning Article written by Milton's Select Board.  While there was a range of motivations amongst "No" voters (those who voted to reject the zoning article), many "No" voters were vocal in their desire to comply with the law but not in the way laid out in the aforementioned Article.
 * Second, the insinuation that the vote fell along racial lines is complete nonsense and utterly (what's the strongest word I'm allowed to say here?) contemptible and despicable.
 * The "Massachusetts state law" about zoning being discussed says nothing about race. A town can not create zoning that discriminates by race.  That would be illegal.  The insinuation about racism is unfounded on its face.
 * The reason why East Milton turned out more "No" voters than "Yes" voters was because EAST MILTON WAS THE PART OF MILTON MOST SEVERELY NEGATIVELY IMPACTED by the proposed zoning. East Milton is already the densest part of Milton, with the worst traffic, and the proposed zoning would have completely wrecked them.  So that is why they turned out in large numbers.
 * "No" voters were spread throughout town and came in all colors and backgrounds.
 * To that point, it should be noted that "Yes" voters were predominantly white.  Milton's minority populations do primarily live west of East Milton, but "west" Milton is still predominantly white.  All the precincts where the "Yes" vote won by a large margin are predominantly white.
 * So if this vote was decided by race alone, with whites being opposed to the zoning, then the "Yes" vote should have won with app. 85% of the vote, matching the town's demographics. But they did not.
 * Furthermore, this newly added "Housing policy" section is actually a misnomer. It does not actually describe anything about Milton's housing or zoning policies.  It is an angry blurb about a special town vote written by someone who did not like the results.
 * I call on the Wikipedia editors to remove this section entirely. Vindex02186 (talk) 07:21, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi. I continue to call on the Wikipedia editors to remove this section.
 * It is factually inaccurate and intentionally inflammatory (insinuating racist causes). Vindex02186 (talk) 05:31, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Understood. I've added a "disputed" tag to the section for now, hopefully we can form a consensus here. On the other hand, do you have any sources to back up your claims? — AP 499D25  (talk)  04:05, 8 March 2024 (UTC)