Talk:Mimesis

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Recent re-vamp of article
I've just done a substantial cleanup, so thought I'd explain some of the decisions here. I've removed the section on artistic creation and that on Freud. The material under theatre, sculpture, music, etc. was unsourced and pretty debatable at best. Rather than mislead, I decided to cut. As indicated in a previous talk post (see archive), the material on Freud was damn-near incomprehensible. The general gist seemed to be a parallel between literary creation and dreaming, but the material was too garbled for me to be able to re-write more clearly. I've gathered all the classical definitions and debates into one section. Since the ludology reference seems to be using the word in the same way that film studies uses diegesis, I've grouped those together. I have also removed the expert tag, because although the article still requires lots of development, at least the material now presented is all sourced and correct (so far as I can tell). DionysosProteus (talk) 14:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

is article "Mimesis" a copy?
Have moved following to the bottom of the discussion being a new section:

is this article plagiarised from the following link, or vice versa? substantial chunks of text are the same: http://www.diffen.com/difference/Aristotle_vs_Plato —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.253.64.173 (talk) 14:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

The "diffen" website is also one where anyone can edit. As you must know there are many mirror sites which can and do copy our articles and the website cited very probably claim to be a free encyclopedia (I haven't gone into this, but it does invite you edit the site), so I can't see that we can do anything about it.Dieter Simon (talk) 00:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Mimesis and Literary Theory
It seems incomplete to jump from Aristotle to Irigaray. Mimesis has been used in many important texts in between those thinkers. Sidney and Coleridge stand out as good examples of Modern theorization of mimesis. I'd like to build a section incorporating the ideas of one or both of those figures. Thoughts? Baxtalo4 (talk) 02:38, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please do, we welcome valuable contributions. The article needs more modern examples.Dieter Simon (talk) 01:43, 18 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Coleridge is a good addition, but I am amazed that Auerbach is only mentioned in passing here. I read him over 30 years ago and I'm not really wanting to re-read him at the moment, so I wouldn't venture to write about his ideas, but many of his ideas have stuck with me after decades, including the differences at different times of what parts of human experience are even considered worth writing about. - Jmabel | Talk 18:59, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I can understand that. So, if anyone wants to complement what we have on Auerbach, of course, with sources. Here is your chance. Dieter Simon (talk) 01:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Section on Plato needs re-conceiving
I am concerned about the section on Plato in this article because it discusses what Plato says, but not what he means. In doing so, I believe it completely mis-states Plato's ideas about mimesis. The greatest part of the Plato citations here are from Republic, where Plato has Socrates quote various poets over and over and over again, and this is a clear sign that Plato does not actually oppose imitation categorically. Furthermore, everything that Plato wrote is in dialogue form, which is itself a form of imitation. There does seem to be, for Plato, a right way to imitate (and consequently some wrong ways to imitate as well), but this does not even begin to come across in the Plato section as it is now. I would have re-written that section myself, but I'm far more well-versed in Plato than Wikipedia writing. 199.89.180.254 (talk) 21:16, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Recent additions
There were some recent additions here that I've removed. If someone wants to make an attempt to better integrate them into the article, have at it. Frankly I don't see how these add to the article: a long bibliography, mostly in Italian, and a report on one Italian educational research facility that happens to attach the name "mimesis" to their techniques. Salvador Minuchin I'm iffy on. I'm not familiar with his work but this seems to be a minor aspect of his theories as it doesn't even have a mention at Structural Family Therapy. I've included the removed sections below for reference. Cheers,  Litho  derm  14:05, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Salvador Minuchin
Salvador Minuchin developed Structural Family Therapy (SFT) in the 1960s. One of Minuchin's SFT techniques is the process of "joining" that occurs between the therapist and the family. Mimesis is one of four ways to accomplish joining with a family. Mimesis is becoming like the family in the manner or content of their communications, adjusting behavioral style to fit that of the family. The therapist does this by using similar interpersonal styles and language as the family, such as joking with a jovial family or using the same metaphors that family members use. (Snow, Crethar, Robey, and Carlson 2005: 137–40).

Mimesis. Pedagogy of Expression
«To make oneself similar, in voice and/or gesture, to someone or something» (Republic 393c ff.) Plato thus defines what is "doing the mimesis" (mimeisthai).

Mimesis is described by Plato in “The Republic” as the dynamism that enables education.

If a man becomes a citizen beautiful, good and right, or if one fails in this endeavour, seems to depend only on how and by what he will do mimesis.

The “making oneself similar”, which characterizes mimesis, can be external or internal, superficial or profound, may apply to the appearance of the other or to something that truly is in the other.

This activity takes place, albeit with different characteristics depending on the age, in the spontaneous play of children born anywhere in the world. This simple observation makes clear the universality and naturalness of this human possession.

The potentialities of mimesis in education are the subject of study and research in Italy by the Laboratory of Pedagogy of Expression of the Department of Educational Design of the University “Roma Tre”.

The research activities of MimesisLab are developed in three distinct areas which work in synergy: philosophy of education, experimental pedagogy, artistic production.

From this research emerges as a qualified re-consideration of mimesis in educational process enables the individual to express his/her own radical originality and to participate in the construction of a coexistence based on attention to the needs and happiness of each one. This finding open essential pathways for intercultural education, peace education, education for empathy.

Scope of article
To be honest, this article is a bit of a mess and quite confusing for the reader. I think the biggest problem is that it violates WP:NOTDICT. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, so article that list various meanings of a work throughout history is specifically discouraged. A clearer, more useful way to structure the article is to decide on a single definition of 'mimesis' and have the article about that. Other meaning of the word should have their own WP pages, which can be accessed via a disambig. Ashmoo (talk) 12:57, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

There is an error in the text. Under Plato, it states, "In Book II of The Republic, Plato describes Socrates' dialogue with his pupils. Socrates warns we should not seriously regard poetry as being capable of attaining the truth and that we who listen to poetry should be on our guard against its seductions, since the poet has no place in our idea of God."

Is/are the authors of this piece saying that Plato, who died about 350 years before Jesus was allegedly born, and who was Greek, not Jewish, referred to "our idea of God"?

Which God - Athena? Zeus?

Please rephrase to eliminate the reference to "God". 173.79.196.191 (talk) 03:48, 24 September 2022 (UTC)