Talk:Minecraft/Archive 3

Edit request from 17 November 2011
The pocket edition of Minecraft was released on iOS today. Could someone please write that in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schwarzy1 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. The Interior  (Talk) 04:27, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from, 18 November 2011
This needs to be added

Under the pocket edition section

On November 16th Minecraft: pocket edition was released for iOS devices. The pocket edition is semi the same as the verison for android.

Yeahwepure (talk) 04:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * See above. The Interior  (Talk) 04:27, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from, 18 November 2011
Please change the 'will be released' to 'was released', as the game was released today.
 * Done. There may be a couple other future->past sections that may need tweaking. Xxcom9a (talk) 04:18, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from, 20 November 2011
Minecraft is now out of beta stage. There is now a new gamemode, hardcore.

Slymon99 (talk) 22:53, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry. but requests to edit must have reliable sources, and be specific (like "please add THIS, as show in THIS NEWSPAPER") 00:55, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit Request, November 23, 2011
I believe it is noteworthy to mention that, according to metacritic.com, Minecraft is the fifth-highest rated video game of all time (fourth if the Grand Theft Auto IV console duplicates are merged).

Source: http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all?year_selected=&sort=desc&hardware=&view=detailed

Barrowsx (talk) 17:58, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Minecraftwiki as "official" wiki
Three editors (two recently, one long ago) have put as "official" Minecraft wiki, so I won't revert. minecraft game topmost discalimer says "Here are some nice active community resources for discussing Minecraft. Please note that all of these are third-party and aren't hosted by us. We link them because they're great.", yet wiki is listed under "Official Resources" right below it. Is this sufficient to be classed under "official"? Neither Mojang nor Persson are affiliated with this wiki, so I don't quite see how "official" applies. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 16:56, 26 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It applies simply because minecraft.net have endorsed it as official, whether they have a direct hand in it's day to day affairs or not. While the disclaimer says "We don't host it", they've clearly endorsed several sites as official. I don't know how else you determine officialness beyond the entity in question declaring it as such... ferret (talk) 22:53, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Number of ppl at minecon 2011
as seen on twitter - and as mentioned by Lydia Winters (minecraftchick) there were 5000 ppl at the Minecon 2011. The article yet reads just 4500 and quotes Markus Perssons blog - which in fact just states "sold out"

please correct the numbers - or give a source for the number 4500. Ian76g (talk) 02:54, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Infobox album
I have reverted an edit that causes the Infobox album template to create unnecessary whitespace. See Template talk:Infobox album for my request of any changes that avoid this white space problem. -84user (talk) 17:35, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 December 2011
I want to edit the first section, and write there too about Markus Perssonn letting that other guy be the main developer on minecraft.

Viktn0r (talk) 12:10, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * It already says "On December 2, 2011, Persson announced via his personal blog that he would be stepping down as the lead developer of Minecraft. Bergensten would become lead developer. Persson would remain as a developer of Minecraft but would be taking time away from the game in order to work on an unannounced project.[39]" in the prose and mentions Mojang being the developer and not Persson alone in the lead. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 12:24, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Modding and Bukkit
There is a strong modding community involved with MineCraft. Although officially unsupported by Notch, they qualify for a mention on this page. I'm going to add a section on it. ShermanCory (talk) 19:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * How do they qualify for mention on this page? Is there notable coverage of them? Certainly add it if you have sources from reliable 3rd party sources. Otherwise, it's OR and will be removed. ferret (talk) 20:05, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I think it's debatable as to whether or not they should be added. I think that a minor/brief "Community-made Content" section of sorts could be mentioned (which could include the "Modding API" once it's released and also mention that some player-made mods made it into the official game - McRegion, Smooth Lighting, Pistons - and how Mojang supports Bukkit could be included), but not listing everything in it would be best. Xxcom9a (talk) 23:33, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * We don't add community made content sections unless they have been covered in detail by reliable, independent sources. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 09:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

resource
How the Creator of Minecraft Developed a Monster Hit by David Thomas November 29, 2011 12:30 pm Wired.com, December 2011 issue in print. 97.87.29.188 (talk) 23:40, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Release Date
Wouldn't Minecraft's official release date be November 2011? That was when the final, full version of the game was released. True, it was released in 2009, but it was simply a prototype. Wouldn't this game be considered released in 2011 then? 35.32.233.206 (talk) 01:02, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

It's both yes and no. The fact that the game went through an open beta is probably enough to say that it was released in 2009, but technically it was released in 2011. Cutecutecuteface2000 (Cutecuteface needs attention) 01:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The release date used for the categories go by a game's initial release date. It was playable by the public in 2009. The earliest release date is 2009, thus it says 2009. More information about its release dates is in the infobox and the article itself, for those interested. But for the categories, we use 2009. Reach Out to the Truth 01:46, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you sure sure we use open alpha/beta dates for release categorization? This doesn't sound accurate. Minecraft was released in November 2011, before that it was "scheduled for release in November 2011". It was at no point really "released" per se until now. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 09:07, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know for sure. But I assumed that's why it was like that. They were sorta-releases. We list them in the infobox. I don't know of any other case where a video game's alpha/beta dates are listed in the infobox, so there's not any other page I can look to for guidance. But I'm open to whatever seems to make sense. Reach Out to the Truth 20:55, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The beta dates were recently added to the Counter-Strike: Global Offense article's infobox. I haven't removed them there and was wondering if anyone else would. Although the latest build was tagged as "Release version", the game has been "released" as a retail product for a long time. I don't see the harm of listing the various major milestones. Notch didn't really follow any sort of traditional alpha/beta/release pattern, and has even outright reset his versioning a couple times. I think it's also important to note that in regards to the start of this talk section, the november release was not the "final" version of the game, nor would I call it the "full" release of the game, as it didn't add any substantial content or features. It was, as a version, as incremental as those that preceded it. ferret (talk) 21:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd personally say that the builds from May 2009 up until MineCon were not "official" (they were testing builds) and that the builds in between was "a really open testing period". I'd list each version but have the official "release" date as November 2011. I'd also move Beta to the "Other versions" section since it isn't a game on its own anymore (Classic and "Full" being the only versions playable now). That's just me. Ferret, as for "it didn't add any substantial content", it would seem that way if you played the "1.9 prereleases"/RC, but there was quite a bit of content between Beta 1.8 and 1.0. I'd call it a full version just as you would call any game that it still updated after being publicly "released" - TF2, Skyrim, etc. Minecraft has an ending, so I'd say it's complete enough to be a product on its own but is not necessarily done being developed. As for Notch resetting his version numbers, he only did that with each stage of development. Xxcom9a (talk) 23:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's certainly the "current" version, but "really open test period" isn't quite right. When Notch changed the game to "beta" he changed the purchase method/pricing/model and stopped referring to it as a pre-order I believe. Also, it was never an "open beta", as purchase of the game was required. I've played every version since well before the Halloween update, so I do have an idea on how incremental the updates have been. That's just opinion though. If Alpha and Beta are removed from the infobox, we do need to make sure the Development section includes information on the relevant major phrases and when they were released. ferret (talk) 00:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I decided to trim this to be more inline with other articles, displaying the relevant releases on each platform, rather than every release phase. The removed dates are covered in the prose, the ones that matter are the official release on various actual platform releases. I also removed weekly pre-releases from the patch versions. This was akin to updating the article with nightly builds. It's not relevant. ferret (talk) 12:30, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree with change, though I wonder if we can phrase "full version" better to not have a line break. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 13:26, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried a slightly different format just now based on some other VG articles. Using the standard templates, etc. I called the full release "PC (Java)" for now... I thought about just "PC" as well. Wasn't sure how to phrase it. Keep in mind that "PC" includes Windows, OS X and Linux. ferret (talk) 13:37, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The field shouldn't be more than a few lines long. Any more and it should go back to a collapsible list. Also I don't think Xperia promotional release is significant enough to be listed outside prose and just Android is much more informative as to when it was actually made available for everyone else. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 14:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I was iffy about Xperia. I originally removed it, then added it back for the Vgrelease "WW" parameter.. I've removed it again. I think this will do, it's in line with other VG articles now. ferret (talk) 14:54, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Sandbox/open world
I don't understand the wikilink titled "sandbox" and leading to the article open world. In my view a sandbox and an open world are almost complete opposites. I can perhaps understand what is meant by a stretch of imagination, but I think it is confusing to the the point of being nonsense.--Thorseth (talk) 12:46, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * As the open world article states: The term is sometimes used interchangeably with "sandbox" and "free-roaming". The term is a little odd, but it's been used for a long time. ferret (talk) 15:08, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The focus is on the way players can build their own experience from the resources provided; the aspect of a limited container is ignored in this context (in contrast to the term's use in software security, where containment is the relevant aspect). --82.36.30.173 (talk) 03:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

The Yogscast and its role in Minecraft's Success - and in general
Minecraft's entry doesn't mention the Yogscast, and now I notice they don't have their own page. I know some weird deletionists don't think something like the Yogscast is notable, but they're wrong: it's notable, and significant. One day there will have to be a debate as to what Wikipedia does now that the pop culture sources the deletionists admire are dying, but that doesn't excuse the fact that an online encyclopedia that includes many YouTube channels that are much less significant (not just: popular) than the yogscast is flawed by the latter's omission. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.96.33.129 (talk) 17:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I personally feel that if you include them, you have to include everybody who "helped" make Minecraft popular. Something similar has been brought up before, and it was felt that they should not be included. Also, sign your posts with four tildes ( ~ ). Xxcom9a (talk) 23:35, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * this suggestion is pretty clearly here because of the recent storm-in-a-teacup spat between notch and the yogscast. WP:N, WP:V, and WP:OR should apply as always. Kaini (talk) 00:11, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

The spat in a teacup isn't important. But the Yogscast is significant, and it should have its own Wikipedia entry — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.132.21.77 (talk) 21:31, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Heck, they're pretty significant in YouTube, let alone Minecraft -- just look at YouTube's 'Most Viewed' or 'Top Favorited' most days and you'll see their videos (uploaded by BlueXephos); and as I write this they have three videos on the front page. --82.36.30.173 (talk) 07:58, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You'll need a reliable source that establishes a link between Yogcast and Minecraft's popularity. As for whether or not Yogcast should have it's own wiki article, this isn't the place to discuss it. Feel free to create such an article and see whether or not it can establish notability. ferret (talk) 16:28, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Influences
Due to the impact and influence of Minecraft don't you think it should have an influence section? 188.222.41.105 (talk) 21:30, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Magic satchel
It's possible for the player to carry over 2000 meter cube blocks of heavy items like stone (which, apart from their size, would in reality weigh several thousand tons). Chests in the game (which also manifest as approximately 1 meter cube in size) can also contain much more than their volume in items. I think the gameplay section should link to the magic satchel page for these reasons, possibly reciprocating on the magic satchel page since this is perhaps an extreme example of how the magic satchel concept is used in games. 213.152.45.117 (talk) 22:12, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 December 2011
69.113.99.188 (talk) 00:13, 27 December 2011 (UTC) bull crap this is the best game ever


 * Do you have a specific change you would like made to the article? If not, please don't waste the time of editors who could be doing useful tasks. -- LWG talk 00:28, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

B Classessment
hurr i'm creative

I mean, um, hey. I'm from WP:VG, where a request was filed to assess this article against the B-Class criteria. (see WP:B?) I'm honestly a little surprised that this is still C-Class, considering all of the coverage the game has had in the last year or so. In any case, allow me to offer advice.
 * B1-Citation: There is a dead link, ref 67. Remove what it cites, find an archived version of the page, or find another source that provides the same information.
 * B2-Coverage: Is there any information on the soundtrack? Soundtracks are inherently less text-heavy sections, but if it's possible, it would be a good idea to add anything relevant you can obtain to that section.
 * B3-Structure: There are a few short sections that should probably be merged with other sections. For instance, 'Creative' could be merged into 'Survival', stating that there's also a creative mode that lacks the threat of death. Likewise, 'Primary Win Condition' could ideally be merged into another section, and the two paragraphs in that section have no apparent reason to be split. Considering the lack of information on Minecraft Pocket, just merge that with the rest of the Ports section.
 * B4-Style: The development section is fine until the end, where it reads more like a news feed than an encyclopedia. Take the iOS updates and throw them into the Ports section; take the others and combine them into a single paragraph of prose.
 * B5-Periphery: Free images? Oh, I'm in love! All of the infoboxes and pictures appear to be acceptable.
 * B6-Clarity: No apparent issues.


 * Verdict: Consequently, I'm going to have to assess the article as C-Class. B-Class and higher appear to be very much tangible, however; if you fix the above, feel free to assign B-Class to the article.  Emmy   Altava  04:02, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll just list a few things I've found/changed while reading over your notes and the article.
 * B1 - Either ref 67 has been fixed or it's now a different number. Would you happen to know which reference it was pointing to?
 * B2 - I'll try and look for more info on the soundtrack.
 * B3 - I think that some people would argue that merging 'Creative' and 'Survival' would not turn out the way you want it to, so I'm thinking something more along the lines of 'Gameplay' but as that's the section it's under, we'll need a different name.
 * B4 - I removed the parts regarding the Sky Dimension and 1.8 as I feel like those would be better off on the Minecraft Wiki itself since the rest of the development section is more general and not specific updates/features. This was the original content to that section for easy comparison:


 * On May 19, 2011, Persson announced via his Twitter account about an additional dimension which is currently being tested to add to the game. The "Sky Dimension" is similar to the Nether, however set above the sky with floating islands.


 * Minecraft Beta 1.8, popularly referred to as the "Adventure Update", was leaked on September 9, 2011 by Jens Bergensten, a Mojang developer, and then subsequently released officially on September 14, 2011 after a long trial of testing and bug-fixing.


 * I've moved the part about the pocket edition being written in C++ to the ports section. Xxcom9a (talk) 03:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 December 2011
Why sin't there any mentions about the creatures in Minecraft? For example, Creeper is so big meme not only in Minecraft so that it should have a page of its own. C'mon, mention the mobs! That's my request. Or actually, not just mobs (the animals and monsters) but also the items, blocks, enchantments... The in-game stuff! Thanks for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.76.89.22 (talk) 12:34, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * You mean an item list? That's what minecraftwiki.net is for. PR0T05T33L (talk) 12:44, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * See above. Articles on Wikipedia should summarize key information about the subject and its impact without getting detailed in trivial specifics. In video game articles specifically, it means it probably shouldn't focus on specific details like lists of enemies and instead focus on core concepts to help casual readers get an understanding of the game. See the list of what Wikipedia is not and the guideline as applied to video game articles for more information.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 20:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Or you can even go to http://www.minecraft.net/ and see if there is any information there as it is an official minecraft website. Yogscast may also be of help as it is a youtube chanel relating to minecraft. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.58.14.26 (talk • contribs)
 * Yes that's a good place for Minecraft info, but this article shouldn't cite it as it is a wiki and thus not a reliable source. Yogscast would probably not be a good source either since they are fans and have fun playing the game. Sources should be entirely third-party, where they step back and really give a good analytical assessment. Jessemv (talk) 00:30, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

File:Minecraft 1.1 Title.png Nominated for speedy Deletion

 * Would have liked to have reviewed this but apparently "speedy" meant "speedy". -- ferret (talk) 14:01, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Appears to have been done for Copyright reasons, despite Notch's permission that all screenshots are free to use. Apparently commons has a policy for 'screenshots'. Should we just move it to en.wiki or try to undelete on commons? -- ferret (talk) 14:08, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I took a look at the uploader's logs. What I saw was a number of images being uploaded with incorrect and invalid licensing information. There's no indication of what was on the image description page for the Minecraft image, but it was probably incorrect causing the admin to assume it was not free. There shouldn't be a problem requesting the image be restored, as long as the licensing information is corrected. Reach Out to the Truth 17:00, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Redirect from Bukkit
I noticed that if you type in Bukkit, you'll go to the Minecraft page, and yet Bukkit isn't even mentioned in this page, and Bukkit is not Minecraft. May someone please either remove the redirect or add information about Bukkit into the page itself?Aattss (talk) 22:06, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * fixed Blake (Talk·Edits) 00:18, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Minecraft for Education
I'd like to add a section for using Minecraft in Education. There are a loads of ongoing, viable educational use projects both in schools and out of schools using Minecraft for all kinds of K12 students, MinecraftEdu [MinecraftEdu.com] (which is reselling accounts via Mojang at a discount for Educational use) and has a server configuration for classroom teachers. Additionally there is an out of school project called MassivelyMinecraft (free to play) [MassivelyMinecraft.com] which operates more like a Guild, but has many teachers and parents using it towards teaching Digital Citizenship in school age kids - things like learning how to conduct yourself online safety, collaborating with others. Both have been running for some time, and I would think there would be others.

I am happy to write it (as a published educational researcher I can handle this), and I suggest a brief overview of how it is being used and the introduction of a section for further links to these two projects - if not others. Obviously Mojang is interested in Education, so it seems reasonable to add a section.

Vormamim (talk) 02:40, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That'd be interesting. Just try to write encyclopedicly and neutrally and put it in a proper section and things should be fine. Jesse V. (talk) 01:05, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 March 2012
The release date for the Xbox 360 minecraft has been announced for march 17 2012 in the conference

67.184.156.22 (talk) 00:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Edit requests for additions should include a url or [ link ] to a Reliable Source (RS). Dru of Id (talk) 01:23, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * per above. mabdul 11:11, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Minecraft for Education
I'd like to add a section for using Minecraft in Education. There are a loads of ongoing, viable educational use projects both in schools and out of schools using Minecraft for all kinds of K12 students, MinecraftEdu [MinecraftEdu.com] (which is reselling accounts via Mojang at a discount for Educational use) and has a server configuration for classroom teachers. Additionally there is an out of school project called MassivelyMinecraft (free to play) [MassivelyMinecraft.com] which operates more like a Guild, but has many teachers and parents using it towards teaching Digital Citizenship in school age kids - things like learning how to conduct yourself online safety, collaborating with others. Both have been running for some time, and I would think there would be others.

I am happy to write it (as a published educational researcher I can handle this), and I suggest a brief overview of how it is being used and the introduction of a section for further links to these two projects - if not others. Obviously Mojang is interested in Education, so it seems reasonable to add a section.

Vormamim (talk) 02:40, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That'd be interesting. Just try to write encyclopedicly and neutrally and put it in a proper section and things should be fine. Jesse V. (talk) 01:05, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 March 2012
The release date for the Xbox 360 minecraft has been announced for march 17 2012 in the conference

67.184.156.22 (talk) 00:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Edit requests for additions should include a url or [ link ] to a Reliable Source (RS). Dru of Id (talk) 01:23, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * per above. mabdul 11:11, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Alternate name
Ok, I'm pretty sure that people use "MineCraft" as well. Since it's pretty hard to search case-sensitive, I've only found a few instances of the usage using Google and Case sensitive Google search:, , , ,. I still remember Notch or one of the employees talking about the brand name and how Minecraft or MineCraft can or couldn't be used, or how they were ok with some specific usage of it. - M0rphzone (talk) 20:18, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I've never seen it used officially (e.g. your 3rd example is someone asking Notch the question and your 5th example is an unofficial app). I think people just type it like that out of habit from other things. Xxcom9a (talk) 00:40, 25 March 2012 (UTC)


 * =( people still use it anyways, but ok. (And here's another example of the problem with WP:OR or WP:RS) - M0rphzone (talk) 05:43, 25 March 2012 (UTC)


 * People also use "Starcraft", but we don't include that for the same reason -- it is the non-official minority that do. Almost every compound or camelcase word can be misspelled in some other "logical" way and it is only expected even respected sources will make the mistake occasionally. I still think it is undue weight to list it as alternative spelling, given no official RS use it. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 09:06, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming this is about StarCraft. But, yea good comment. - M0rphzone (talk) 05:44, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Population statistics for Minecraft Servers.
I would really like to see a page dedicated to listing minecraft servers by population. Currently, Minecraftservers.net is the only good source for info on servers. It uses a vote system that does not truly reflect the population of the server. Many servers bribe players to vote for the server by giving them in-game benefits like diamonds or in game credits. This leads to servers with lots of votes being ranked first, although they may not have many active players. For example, I recently joined Minetown, which advertises itself as having a 1000 player capacity. Its webpage says that it has between 900 and 1000 members, but I have yet to see the online population of the server go over 100.

I think the Minecraft gaming community is in dire need of real time population and player statistics for notable servers. I've tried about 20 PvP servers and none of them have populations high enough for interesting gameplay. Furthermore, I have no reliable way of finding pvp servers with large numbers of active users for reasons mentioned above. I think it would be great if the page were created. Thanks :)
 * Wrong wiki, you're going to want to suggest this at a dedicated Minecraft wiki- specific server sizes is way too detailed for a general encyclopedia. -- Pres N  21:55, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Iphone port info outdated
Notch has already released new versions for the mobile version, adding survival aspects, but this wiki states that the first version is current, even though a version (or two) has been released in February. Can someone fix it?168.8.212.133 (talk) 12:21, 20 March 2012 (UTC)


 * http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Minecraft_Wiki says that 1.2 is still current; please provide a source for your statements! mabdul 22:10, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Clarify: The server and the client software are mentioned with release numbers; not the different versions of the mobile versions. mabdul 23:47, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't find Pocket Edition version numbers or dates anywhere. Yes, the original release date is told, but I don't think individual Pocket Edition version numbers and dates are necessary. They are a little bit trivial. Blake (Talk·Edits) 00:16, 21 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Here's a better link: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Pocket_Edition_version_history - M0rphzone (talk) 05:38, 25 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Isn't it 1.2.1 Alpha anyway? Ilikepie757 (talk) 01:05, 11 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I Just Updated the information, I am developing a Minecraft PE Page, this will cover all information including version dates, game info, release dates, screen shots, and developers. ►Skyshadow382◄ 17:28, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Minecraft's possible open-sourcing
In my opinion it'd be good to mention that Minecraft will probably be open-sourced at some point: Notch's statement about this can be found at the bottom section of this page. It looks like the contents of the page are a bit old as Notch isn't working on Minecraft anymore, but since Mojang hasn't altered or removed the page I'd consider it as a proper source. --Veikk0.ma 23:02, 6 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Veikk0.ma (talk • contribs)

--Ricvelozo (talk) 22:48, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
 * This is already mentioned in the "Development" section: "Persson plans to eventually release the game as open-source after sales have dropped off and when he wants to move onto other projects."

IOS & Android, Release dates
The IOS and Android has its own versions, although this is not stated in the article. I suggest adding mobile release dates and versions, they can be found at the minecraft wiki located Here It is important that you add the current Patch which is v0.3 Alpha

►Skyshadow382◄ 13:19, 12 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyshadow382 (talk • contribs)
 * You should be able to make that change yourself, as you're autoconfirmed. --MuZemike 23:43, 26 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what change is being proposed. iOS and Android versions are already mentioned in the article and their release dates as well. -- ferret (talk) 23:45, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Semi Protection
Hello, I am al little bit unsure why protect it for a few months and then keep protecting it 2 days after the protection expired. Wouldn't it be better to make it last infinite if vandilism carries on. &#39;&#39;GOURLEYO&#39;&#39; &#60;small&#62;Edit at Wikia!&#60;/small&#62; (talk) 15:20, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Because eventually the nonconstructive editing and vandalism will die down. I'm not super sure on indefinite protection policy, but it is rarely applied to articles. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 17:06, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Indefinite protection is used for persistent vandalism, that it is clear that temporary protection won't cut it. It's mostly at the discretion of the protecting administrator. Given this page's protection log, I'd request indefinite semi-protection next time around, if needed.--Unionhawk Talk E-mail 14:09, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

XBLA Release
This is protected? Thats kind of weird, anyway the XBLA section needs to be redone to make a little more sense and just generally be more coherent in explaining why 4J announced a March 17 release date and why it wasn't released then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.7.203 (talk) 17:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It does? The developers were happy to release it at that time in March, but the publisher(Microsoft) wants to wait until they release the "Arcade NEXT" promotion in May. I am not sure how more clear it can get. Blake (Talk·Edits) 15:23, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

If you go to the MinecraftWiki, the release is on May 9th, 2012. Here is the link: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/X-Box_360_Edition — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.248.41.67 (talk) 21:19, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

The XBLA edition has reportedly sold 1 million copies as of the 14th of May. Here's a link for a reference http://www.gamespot.com/news/minecraft-xbox-360-sells-1-million-6376590. Red8378 (talk) 00:59, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Add Information About The End & The Nether
While this article describes the Nether a little bit, it should also include information in more detail about the Nether and the End.

The game goals should also be revised to include information about how if you kill the ender dragon, you "win".

Iandun564 (talk) 19:32, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 April 2012
Information about the End and the Nether should be included in this article. A section called 'Alternate Dimensions' including sections about the End and Nether. This is important because some of the game play involves these dimensions.

You should also update the latest version released information to 1.2.5 instead of 1.2.3. Thank you

Iandun564 (talk) 19:37, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * 1.2.5 is already included and I don't see any mentions of 1.2.3. A whole section for the alternate dimensions is excessive, and the main bits about them are already covered in "Primary win condition". Anything more than a few more sentences belongs in MinecraftWiki. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 20:10, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Size of world?
Article claims the world is infinite in the horizontal plane. that is not true. it also is not supported by any sources I can find. The game has blocks, chunks (16*16*256 blocks) and there are limits on the number of chunks because of 32 bit math. Infinite is a technical term and has a specific meaning. Perhaps change it to "unimaginably vast" or "many times the surface of the world?" or soemthing like that. I don't know what counts as a suitable source. Here's a wiki (I knwo this isn't acceptballe) http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/The_Overworld#Sizes

--31.109.166.176 (talk) 01:06, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, the article cites http://notch.tumblr.com/post/3746989361/terrain-generation-part-1 when it says "Minecraft allows for an infinitely large game world to be generated on the horizontal plane, only running into technical problems when extremely distant locations are reached". I think that clarifies it pretty well IMO. No? Jesse V. (talk) 01:13, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * See above. The world generated is theoretically infinite. Practically, it's limited by the capabilities of its own engine. Even after its practical limit, the world still generates, albeit with glitches. The same article also mentions that it's more or less impossible to reach the glitchy area without mods or cheat codes unavailable to the average player.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 01:31, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


 * From the link you provide - "First of all, let me clarify some things about the “infinite” maps: They’re not infinite, but there’s no hard limit either. It’ll just get buggier and buggier the further out you are. Terrain is generated, saved and loaded, and (kind of) rendered in chunks of 16*16*128 blocks. These chunks have an offset value that is a 32 bit integer roughly in the range negative two billion to positive two billion. If you go outside that range (about 25% of the distance from where you are now to the sun), loading and saving chunks will start overwriting old chunks. At a 16/th of that distance, things that use integers for block positions, such as using items and pathfinding, will start overflowing and acting weird. Those are the two “hard” limits."

So, 32 bit math limits the size of the world because at that point chunks get overwritten. Does he mean -2 to +2 billion chunks, or blocks? 31.109.166.176 (talk) 04:12, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Blocks. It's the coordinate system that gets screwy, and game physics cease working, so you'll suddenly fall into the Void unexpectedly. But with the new fractal-based biome code since 1.8, the Far Lands no longer exist, so now it's only the physics, lighting, and movement that are affected. Jesse V. (talk) 05:04, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * For all intents and purposes, the map is infinite (horizontally). Things just get really, really weird when you get out really really far (X or Z in the billions).--Unionhawk Talk E-mail 12:03, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Minecon
RE: The minecon controversy I feel that all of the sources referenced provide ample evidence that the fall-out was a notable part of the event. The information is drawn from secondary sources of proven longevity and reliability. Both PC Gamer Magazine and Edge magazine are substantial and notable publications. Secondly I do not believe that the notability or otherwise of the podcast in question is directly relevant to the issue at hand. It has already been established by the article that Notch is notable as was MineCon, therefore it merely needs to be demonstrated that the events formed a notable part of minecon, not that every single one of the protagonists are individually notable. The sources are sufficient to establish this, indeed edge magazine not only published a number of articles but also included it in their weekly round-up of notable news and their yearly round of of indie gaming related news which largely discussed minecraft.
 * it was a storm in a teacup. a very minor part of the history of the game, and something better suited to a dedicated forum or wiki, not the wikipedia article on the game. Kaini (talk) 23:49, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with the above, with the additional comment that this actually appeared to be a scuffle mainly between Persson and the Yogscast, and not Mojang/Minecraft/Minecon and the Yogscast, which further decreases its relevance in an article about Minecraft.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 00:17, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I can see where you are coming from but I'm not sure I entirely agree with you yet.   I would be much happier if you could provide your objective assessment of the reliable sources I have encountered looking at this and their relative merits.    There is rather a dearth of actual news coverage of minecon overall but of the articles which were actually written after the event not before it most of them mention this as a "notable" event.     Given this prima facie evidence of notability, similar sources of equal reliability or a preponderance of material (post event) are required to properly justify non-inclusion.    Since Persson is the owner, founder and CEO of mojang and minecon and this is where minecon redirects to on wikipedia I think it is clear that his actions in this context are relevant here. Student 5429  —Preceding undated comment added 08:15, 7 May 2012 (UTC).
 * It doesn't matter if you agree with us or not - this really doesn't (or didn't) affect the convention, or the game itself. It's a very minor incident that will have no lasting impact or relevance to the larger topic, which is the game. MikeWazowski (talk) 14:15, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Here is the section as it stood before removal: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Student 5429 (talk • contribs) 23:54, May 6, 2012‎ (UTC)

"Although extremely successful, MineCon 2011 was marred by disagreements between Persson and the YouTube celebrity duo The Yogscast.  The controversy first arose due to a series of tweets from Persson exhibiting dissatisfaction with the Yogscast team at MineCon. The Yogscast team disputed the allegations and expressed disappointment in the comments made by Persson who has since apologised saying that the incident was probably due to a "stress related misunderstanding"."

Edit request on 14 May 2012
Minecraft Xbox 360 is already out! it says it is planned

DuoDex (talk) 22:31, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. mabdul 11:06, 15 May 2012 (UTC)


 * This has been updated, proof is below! ►Skyshadow382◄ 19:18, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 May 2012
the XBOX 360 version is already out. Remove "The Xbox 360 version of the game, developed by 4J Studios, will support Kinect play and cross-platform playability with the PC version.[81] The gameworld size of the initial release is limited to 1024 by 1024 blocks, although this might later be expanded.

At the Game Developers Conference, it was made known that Minecraft for XBLA is coming out on March 17, 2012. However, Daniel Kaplan said on Twitter that it is Microsoft's decision on when it will be released, 4J Studios have told Microsoft that the game is ready for release now Microsoft are waiting for a date that they are happy to release.[82] It was announced that Minecraft would be the flagship game in a new Xbox Live promotion called Arcade NEXT. It was released on May 9, 2012.[83]

It was announced that Minecraft for Xbox 360 would be limited, although in time the game will be in sync with the PC version, but for the release, Xbox Minecraft will be many versions behind the current 1.2.5. Although many features will not be added until a later date, the game has a large amount of content that is special to the Xbox 360, including the newly designed crafting system and control interface and the ability to play with friends.[84] And replace all past tense verbs to present.

DuoDex (talk) 22:35, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: technically, the Xbox version is not out; it's in Beta. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:08, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. mabdul 11:07, 15 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Proof of the Update and I will edit the info thanks! ►Skyshadow382◄ 19:03, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 May 2012
Under Developer, please change Mojang to Mojang, 4J Studios (Xbox 360 Edition) because it wasn't Mojang who made the Xbox edition. The Ya! (talk) 16:52, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

The Ya! (talk) 16:52, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Done. C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 23:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Images have been replaced
I have uploaded the files in use on this page, as fair use, because of an ongoing discussion at Commons. C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 13:00, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

iOS Java Support
Hey, I was reading through the article and somewhere it said something about how Minecraft for the iOS was not written in Java due to the fact that Java is not supported on the iOS, but then the citation was needed.

Since I cannot edit the page (I do not have enough verified edits to actually edit semi-protected material) I have gone and found a link which I deem to be reliable. It is from the New York Times. The link is here: http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/13/ultimate-iphone-faqs-list-part-2/

In that post there is a quote of Steve Jobs saying:“Java’s not worth building in. Nobody uses Java anymore. It’s this big heavyweight ball and chain.”

I cannot verify from this statement whether all Java is being unsupported or just java applets in the Safari browser.

However, the quote itself implies that Java as a whole will not be supported by Apple. There has been some controversy around this statement, but my argument is:

Is it possible to use this as evidence that the iOS cannot run Java as the citation? Or is there not enough evidence?

As of right now there is Java support for the iOS in the new 3.3.2 update but it is quite limited. The limits include the inability for "an application to download or install executable code. Interpreted code may only be used in an Application if all scripts, code and interpreters are packaged in the Application and not downloaded. The only exception to the foregoing is scripts and code downloaded and run by Apple's built-in WebKit framework."

However, this was not the case when Minecraft: Pocket Edition was being released.

So again, would the New York Times (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/13/ultimate-iphone-faqs-list-part-2/) be an acceptable source? If so, could someone please insert it as a reference?

--Cheers, Starport592 (talk) 04:10, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

--Good find my friend, sadly, this does not give evidence to the fact that Minecraft PE is a C++/C# programmed game. Although you have proven that apple does not use java, the main reason for this citation is to prove that the Minecraft PE does not use java.As for the current java support, i have never herd of java on an ipod or iphone, unless it was with an app that needed to be downloaded. ►Skyshadow382◄ 12:08, 24 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyshadow382 (talk • contribs)

Edit request on 29 May 2012
there is a simple error in the creative mode section; it should say the only way to die is if you fall down INTO the void

alex (talk) 17:32, 29 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "Fall down something" is grammatically correct, like "fall down the stairs". The current wording is more accurate, as merely falling into the void doesn't cause the player to die and they need to fall further down. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 20:22, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 June 2012
In the Modes section can you please add in Adventure Mode that is coming out in minecraft 1.3 but has currently been added into the snapshot 12w22a

Nukecraft32 (talk) 00:23, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Not unless you be more specific. What exactly do you want the new text to be? Egg   Centri  c  01:06, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The upcoming adventure mode is basically survival mode, but you can't place or destroy blocks. It's also designed to not be normally accessible by the player and instead by modders and custom map makers, so I don't see why this would deserve more than a sentence anyway, and only after 1.3 is released at that.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 02:35, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

xbox freezing because of nether world
every time i build a portal to the nether my xbox freeze to fix ow know hs does anyone know how to fix this and if so tell me because i need things from the nether world  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.142.54 (talk) 04:06, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * This is not the place to ask this. Try the Minecraft Wiki. That's rather strange behavior, but I wonder if others have had the same issue. Try Googling "xbox freeze when building portal to nether in minecraft" or something along those lines. Jesse V. (talk) 04:44, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Minecraft Wiki link
I'm quite new to editing Wikipedia (as you can probably see from the IP address where my username would be), but I have been on Minecraft Wiki for quite a while. Just for fun, I searched for 'Enderman' on Wikipedia, expecting to find a small page about the Enderman and its relation to Slenderman. Instead, however, I found that it was a redirect to Minecraft. While I understand this and agree that it is the right thing to do, I also think it would be a good idea to have a link in this page to Minecraft Wiki, so that people can get more accurate information about specific parts of Minecraft, rather than the game in general. I would be happy to either add this myself or have someone else add it, but I would like permission before doing anything. Does anyone else think this is a good idea? If not, does anyone think I've gone mad? -- 121.73.172.69 (talk) 00:01, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * there is one, at the very bottom of the article, under 'external links' Kaini (talk) 00:16, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * removed due to WP:ELNO C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 01:55, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * And I've replaced it. See # 13 12 of that guideline: Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors. Minecraft Wiki is large and stable, and definitely should be linked. See also how the pages for Doctor Who, Star Wars, Star Trek and Pokémon link to the largest wiki for their fan group.  elektrik  SHOOS  (talk) 02:14, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * And Half-Life. And Animal Crossing. And The Legend of Zelda. Among others. The point being, there's definitely precedent, and it's completely allowable.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 02:17, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That said, though, we probably shouldn't link to Markus Persson's personal blog. See point #11. In addition, given Minecraft is released and Persson's no longer the head developer, it's now peripherally related at best. It's probably appropriate on the article about him, though.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 02:24, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Removed again per WP:ELNO. C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 13:05, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to add it again, because I don't want to edit war, but can you at least provide a reason why you're removing it besides just saying WP:ELNO after I've provided a more specific reason (citing the same policy)? And while you're at it, not templating me? elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 15:06, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * "12. Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors. Mirrors or forks of Wikipedia should not be linked. 13. Sites that are only indirectly related to the article's subject: the link should be directly related to the subject of the article. A general site that has information about a variety of subjects should usually not be linked to from an article on a more specific subject. Similarly, a website on a specific subject should usually not be linked from an article about a general subject. If a section of a general website is devoted to the subject of the article, and meets the other criteria for linking, then that part of the site could be deep linked." I have look through the WP:ELNO claim and I don't see the problem, yes it is a wiki, YES it has a substantial number of editors, and as for the "Mirrors or forks of Wikipedia should not be linked." 1st its not a Mirror or Fork, 2nd it says it SHOULD not be added... Should... I end my case and I will continue undoing your edits untill you quit. May I also say that no one has had a problem with this link until you changed it. We have had many edits and not one person has found an error with this link until you came along. Trust me there have been many BY THE RULE editors and they never changed it. ►Skyshadow382◄ 15:24, 4 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyshadow382 (talk • contribs)

I would like to add my support and endorse Elektrik Shoos' position here. the addition of a link to the wiki isn't one of the many WP:EL abuses you see all over wiki; the link adds to the article, and is of use to readers. Kaini (talk) 17:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Removed YET again, per WP:ELNO, please talk about the link before reinserting it. C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 18:01, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * it seems to me that the only one not talking about it is you; your contributions to the discussion have essentially just been 'removed per WP:ELNO', with no further detail or justification. Kaini (talk) 18:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, three separate users (including myself) have independently endorsed its addition. It'd be nice if you explained yourself.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 18:27, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I just need a reason why it passes WP:ELNO, that's all. C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 18:28, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I gave you one above, which you haven't responded to at all.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 18:30, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * As others already said, the link passes WP:EL guideline, no WP:ELNO violations. It is a valid, stable, large resource for all the game details. Plus the main game website links to it. So it is perfectly acceptable as an external link. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 19:23, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Please see: WP:DIVA Sparklerainbow87 (talk) 19:43, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * What about it? I don't see how this essay is applicable to a discussion about an external link's suitability. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 20:51, 4 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Get rid of it per WP:ELNO, # 12. Mythpage88 (talk) 19:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Restore the link. As the primary source of information about the game, I think it is a perfectly acceptable and quite useful link.  I endorse Elektrik Shoos's argument about how this link does not run afoul of our external link policy.  I disagree with Mythpage88's argument (or lack thereof, actually) that it violates WP:ELNO #12.  Peacock (talk) 20:01, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Mythpage88 There is no violation! get it through your heads that the link is acceptable and we as a group have desired to keep the link on. The only way I am going to stop reverting this edit is if a admin comes on and tells us we are violating the wiki with this link. ►Skyshadow382◄ 20:14, 4 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyshadow382 (talk • contribs)
 * You must be new here. Here at Wikipedia, we value consensus.
 * "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors [should be avoided]." Where is the substantial history of stability? Mythpage88 (talk) 20:56, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's their statistics page and their about page. (I probably should have linked to these earlier.) They've existed since June of 2009, and currently have 1,300 active monthly users and nearly 20,000 pages (including 1,800 content pages). It pales in comparison to en-wiki, but it's more than substantial, especially considering their 107,000,000 page views. (Though I don't actually know if that's all page views to date, or page views yearly or monthly or whatnot.)  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 22:23, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Stability is a more difficult thing to quantify, but their statistics page above claims an average of 17.60 edits per page, which is actually less than Wikipedia's 19.66 edits per page. In terms of site stability, it's been up uninterrupted since it founded, and has had no major blackouts, domain redirects, etc.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 22:30, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Endorse restoration, per stability statistics provided above. JoeSperrazza (talk) 00:29, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support including the link. As stated, it is established as a good wiki, same as the wikis listed on all the other franchises linked above. In cases where it lies in the middle of being "substantially stable", sometimes you have to ask "Is it unstable?" instead of "Is it stable?". I have never visited that wiki and seen any vandalism. Blake (Talk·Edits) 02:56, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

After reading the comments on this, I'll just throw in my observations. I'll briefly explore Wikipedia's policy on external linking (WP:EL). The three points to consider are: I trust everyone can agree that the Minecraft wiki meets these criteria.
 * Is the site content accessible to the reader?
 * Is the site content proper in the context of the article (useful, tasteful, informative, factual, etc.)?
 * Is the link functioning and likely to remain functional?

Interestingly, further down on that policy page in the section links to be considered (WP:ELMAYBE), point 4 states: "Sites that fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources." Undoubtedly a wiki, while not normally considered a reliable source, still contains relevant and useful information for readers of the article.

The relevant point in WP:ELNO is point 12: "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors. Mirrors or forks of Wikipedia should not be linked." As has been mentioned, the Minecraft wiki seems to have a history of large numbers of editors and of being stable. And as can be seen by looking at other notable articles, again as outlined above, external linking to specific wikis is not overly exceptional, especially one of the general quality of the Minecraft one.

And lastly, I'll simply note WP:EL's call for common sense (as per WP:COMMON). Looking at it from a realistic perspective, linking to a more in-depth and detailed website that goes into the specific gameplay of the article's topic can only help readers, rather than hinder them. As long as we can establish that the Minecraft wiki meets the relevant criteria of being an acceptable website to link to, then including it as a link can't honestly damage the page. And if this comes to a vote (I don't know if one's been informally initiated, but hey), then I'll support the inclusion of the link based on its relevance to the article, usefulness to readers and eligibility as an external link. —JeevanJones (talk) 21:20, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Support. There seems to be a clear concensus that the site is stable, useful and active, including statistics supporting this, and that it therefore passes the guidelines on WP:ELNO. Even then, as pointed out by Jeevan, WP:COMMON should apply. Aawood (talk) 11:43, 6 June 2012 (UTC)