Talk:Minerva/Archive 1

Authenticity of a cartoon post Shakespear god/dess of no gender attriubted to career
Nike is ideal to be at the board. Nike is the best company and goddess there is, so it might aswell create a melange tout where it has no rival so's to create its own problem to solve one that might never happen. Real things face criticism, and the only criticism this faced is bending it on another entity. If they call someone by its own career, say Embroider, which they can say occurs with Eros for reading academia.. it's little credit, but those with a pet rock are they who'll inverse it to arrive at Minerva. They also have little personal life than it be all the time they have. Shakespear is a god of writing plays so is Constance and JK Rowling. They've got enough status to believe in the personagods and are easy like Peppa Pig. Most of them equate to their shrines being torn down in a over preposterous scenario; the bulk being the building is fine but the statue is too much, and its affiliations with Ba'al, the Sepulche of Venus is Orb shaped. Clown farmer. oh its on DVD. got it on disc. They just feel pity to those whom the statues reach whose capability is not the same as Nike CEOs in France who think them up. Ooh ride the dinosaur at the mall. Praise be to Hestia in divorce from the Mormon; in the book(Bible). ip available so those who participate in cryogensis movies can find us in 10,000 years, 40,000 years ago. same age same height. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.173.114.1 (talk) 15:13, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Comments
What does 'Duck of Minerva' mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neeperemiti (talk • contribs) 09:36, 26 June 2005 (UTC)

I dont know but there is a great politcal science blog with that name

The Duck of Minerva — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.198.151.240 (talk) 12:51, 21 August 2005 (UTC)


 * WP:SPAMLINK Northern Moonlight | ほっこう  15:49, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

is it true?
okay....how do we know if minerva is real? i mean how do we know if any of the immortals are real....if they truly were immortal and truly were gods... where are they now? remember...immortals dont die? so are they in hiding....or just...made up?--69.85.235.3 16:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * It's called Roman Mythology for a reason, friend. 38.99.145.68 17:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This one will have to repeat sixth grade again next year, I'm afraid. --Wetman 18:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

In a letter to John Adams on April 11, 1823, Thomas Jefferson said:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter".

Minerva outside of Italy
Perhaps this should gain a mention - I note my home town of Harlow has one of the only major temples to minerva outside of Italy and since in 1st/2nd century the area was militarily controlled could this be an example of minerva the war goddess being worshiped outside of Rome?Meklin 12:18, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

On Modern Minerva - I corrected the item about Minerva at SUNY Albany. She now stands In the Library and not outside of it. Could not verify that she has a dog at her side so edited out the folklore about the dog paw. Go here for info on Minerva at SUNYA: http://www.albany.edu/main/features/2003/04-03/minerva/minervafacts.htm It would be nice to maybe add a photo of her statue but I don't quite know how to do that yet.Lisapollison 16:41, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The unfinished temple of Minerva in Quetzaltenengo, Guatemala begun in 1917 is worth a mention.

She was worshipped in the middle east until islam came and the destroyed her shrine and statues. Not sure of the shrine in taif would be considered a mjaor temple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-l%C4%81t

Wisdom god/dess cetegory
This page was categorized both under Category:Wisdom goddesses and Category:Wisdom gods. Since both are subcategories of Category:Wisdom deities, I removed the "Wisdom gods" category. — Anna Kucsma 20:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Etruscan connection
Misinformed text: "The name "ninerva" is likely imported from the Etruscans who called her Menrva." There was no "importation": Roman culture developed quite directly out of Etruscan culture. --Wetman 02:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe you but can you please cite your source in the article? (not here) I'll wait to add a citation need tag.Lisapollison 07:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You needn't "believe" anything: see Etruscan civilization for basic questions like this. --Wetman 10:00, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Minerva
Minerva can also be found on the U.S. Medal of Honor. Minerva's profile is on in the Medal of Honor. She is defined as the goddess of wisdom and righteous war.


 * Athena?--Wetman 22:12, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Minerva is featured on the seal of the State of California Labrat2007 04:46, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

reference in culture
There is a song by the metal band, Deftones, titled Minerva which may or may not have been titled after the Goddess. Someone should research it.--75.14.35.91 22:55, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Why is Virginia Brown's translation of Boccaccio being used to support statements like this: "Athens had built a statue of Minerva as a temple to the goddess, which had piercing eyes, a helmet on her head, attired with a cuirass and an extremely long spear. It also had a crystal sheild with the figure of the head of Medusa on it."  What's happening to this article? I'm taking it off my watchlist. Before I go, I'll suggest the following outline:
 * 1) [Concise opening summary]
 * 2) Etruscan Menrva [merge from Menrva)
 * 3) Cult of Minerva in Rome
 * 4) Literary uses of Minerva in Latin
 * 5) Minerva in Roman Gaul
 * 6) Other provincial appearances
 * 7) Minerva in the Renaissance

What doesn't fall under these headings might not be relevant. That won't be my call. --Wetman 22:12, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

This article contradicts itself
The article states the following that "The name "Minerva" is imported from the Etruscans who called her Menrva. " It then goes on to state that "  Her name has the Proto-Indo-European mn- stem, linked with memory as in Greek Mnemosyne (μνημοσύνη) and mnestis (μνῆστις: memory, remembrance, recollection). " This sounds very odd. The Etruscan language is not an Indo-European language, which is such a rudimentary fact among linguisticians that I really don't think I need to get a reference to 'substantiate my claims.' Admittedly, the article goes on to say "  The Romans could have confused her foreign name with their word from the same stem... " but this sounds like an afterthought added by another user who had also noticed the contradiction.

The whole section would sound more authoritative and syllogistic if the order of the sentences were slightly changed to the following
 * (1) The name "Minerva" is imported from the Etruscans who called her Menrva. Extrapolating from her Roman nature, it is assumed that in Etruscan mythology, Menrva was the goddess of wisdom, war, art, schools and commerce. She was the Etruscan counterpart to Greek Athena. Like Athena, Menrva was born from the head of her father, Jupiter (Greek Zeus).
 * (2) The Romans could have confused her foreign name with their word from the same stem [In linguistics, this phenomenon is called folk etymology ]. mens meaning "mind", since one of her aspects as goddess pertained also to the intellectual.
 * (3) Her name has the Proto-Indo-European mn- stem, linked with memory as in Greek Mnemosyne (μνημοσύνη) and mnestis (μνῆστις: memory, remembrance, recollection).

G.M.Gladehall (talk) 23:34, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


 * #2 is speculative and without a cited analysis for support - More likely the Romans and Etruscians did not make a mistake in attributing wisdom to a goddess of war. Just remember that war tactics and strategics were the first intellectual studies of newly civilized hummans. Conquest was recognized as the primary means by which tribes were joined into civilizations. Since early generals or war leaders usually also later ruled and built the civilizations, or later directly supported the ruler and advised him, they were obviously wise. Rather than modern logic discussing what we now consider odd (wisdom + war) - why not omit explaining that which original Roman texts do not explain.
 * Consider striking the entire etymology section as it contributes nothing definitive to the topic. Wikipedia front pages are not the place for what must be classified as intellectualized gossip. Perhaps secondary pages should be added to collect such material since so many people cannot resist adding it.

66.68.23.251 (talk) 08:32, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Authoritative sources
I'm not sure if there's some WP tag for this, but the cited sources are eyebrow elevators. The first cite is to a scholarly book about gender and colonialism, the second cite is to Hegel. Also unsure if the public domain dictionary incorporated in the article is still trustworthy. I'd love to try to throw some time at this problem myself but I don't have any source materials. JGorton (talk) 14:30, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Trivia
The latter part of this article seems to mostly be a large accumulation of trivia. 86.160.84.215 (talk) 02:31, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅. I was hoping to find an actual encyclopedic article, but found a list instead.  ~E of F:74.60.29.141 (talk) 05:50, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree too. I think most of this page needs to be remodelled and rewritten. Rainbow Shifter (talk) 18:56, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

'... born from the godhead of Jupiter with weapons'
The above phrase is meaningless to me, as it will be to other non experts. The source cited is not universally and freely accessible, and Encarta will no longer be produced meaning that it cannot be presumed that this information will be accessible in the future. Can we really say it is any source at all? And so there is little opportunity for the reader to obtain clarification of the phrase. The author, or another expert should edit the article to clarify the meaning of the text, or remove it; terms of art should not be used without explanation, or giving links to an explanatory article. The Godhead disambiguation page does not help clarify the text.

This may or may not tie in with a WP policy; I feel it is self-evident, however.

Ché (talk) 08:08, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Etymology
(See also "Etruscan connextion" above)

The section on Etymology has several problems.

1. Menerva with short e cannot be a "moon goddess" or "she who measures", since both interpretations would imply a long ē.

2. It is disputed whether the Roman adopted an Etruscan goddess or the other way round.

Assuming that the Etruscan name is of Roman origin, an old Italic adjective *men-es-wā from the PIE noun *men-es- (Greek μένος "fureur guerrière"), from the root *men-, would be a nice etymology, except that the Etruscan name with r is already attested in the 6th c. BC (A. Ernout - A. Meillet, Dictionnaire étymologique de la langue latine s. v. Minerva), which would require a Latin change *sv > rv between vowels centuries older than the known change *s > r between vowels (cf. M. de Vaan, Etymological Dictionary of Latin and the Other Italic Languages, s. v. Minerva).

If, on the contrary, the name is of Etruscan origin, of course its etymology cannot be known.

3. Also, I delete the two successive sentences "It is possible that such a goddess was "imported" to both Greece and Italy from beliefs originating in the Near East during the extreme antiquity. The very few extant Lemnian inscriptions suggest that the Etruscans may have originated in Asia Minor, in which case subsequent syncretism between Greek Athena and Italic Minerva may have been all the easier." The second of these sentences, i.e. the mention of the Lemnians, is totally irrelevant here, and the first is gratuitous speculation. The syncretism of Greek and Roman divinities is amply explained by the massive influence of Greek culture on Rome, and it applies no matter whether a given Roman divinity has an Etruscan counterpart or not. There is thus no sense even in linking to Lemnian from the Minerva page. (The link to Lemnian is justified on the Etruscan page, but not on the Minerva page.)

--Zxly (talk) 23:41, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

How true is this statement?
"Minerva was worshipped throughout Italy, though in Rome did she dispose of the warlike character of Athena."

There have been instances where temples of Minerva dedicated after military victories (Pompey and Domitian come to mind) 164.67.21.142 (talk) 12:03, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Missed aspects.
She is also the goddess of beds made, which for anyone with a modicum of understanding of politics and bedmates should be obvious enough. (PS: stands to reason why ´rome´, would have an issue with her, either in terms of ´rome´ or in terms of ´roam´. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.209.29.60 (talk) 20:50, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Needs a lot of work
This article is a mess. First it spends way too much time proportionally on Etruscan stuff. Then it devotes more space to modern uses than the ancient deity. Finally it starts off with the origin myth of Athena, right before saying that it took until the 2nd c. for Minerva to be identified with her (which is wrong anyway). Needs a near total re-write. - Eponymous-Archon (talk) 23:08, 13 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree. The introduction is particularly terrible and needs to be re-written entirely — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.235.73.22 (talk) 21:33, 6 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Over a year later, I tweaked this a little to at least minimize the heavy-handed and misleading Etruscan material and Athena mythology. A lot of the references are miserable, too. - Eponymous-Archon (talk) 18:19, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Public monuments, places and modern culture
Don't most of these really belong on the disambiguation page and not here? - Eponymous-Archon (talk) 23:09, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Emperor and Minerva medica?
What emperor could possibly have been present during the dedication of a temple by Pompey? - Eponymous-Archon (talk) 00:28, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Roman Coinage
Minerva is featured on roman coinage however this was not mentioned in the article. I have added a short paragraph with reference to American Numismatic Society database. I have added an image which I have contributed to Wikipedia Commons. This is my first real edit which involved adding text to an article so please feel free to give me any feedback. Ancientcoincollector (talk)

Possible Expansion
I want to list a few things that could be researched and possibly added to this article: What was the Goddess Minerva before she was compared to Athena? What are the differences between the two? As the goddess of wisdom, did she have an impact on Philosophy? Is it time to restructure this article? eg: Put all of the "Use by societies and governments" "Public monuments" under a master heading of "Legacy" or "current uses" and these can be sub headings? Sebastian Trejo (talk) 21:17, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, before she was syncretized with Athena, Minerva was actually a lunar goddess. Minerva was not nearly as important in the Roman pantheon as Athena was in the Greek. Generally, Minerva was more closely associated with weaving and household crafts; whereas Athena was primarily the patron and protectress of the city. From what I have heard so far, your restructuring idea sounds like a good one. --Katolophyromai (talk) 02:51, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

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External links modified (January 2018)
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