Talk:Ming treasure voyages/Archive 1

GOCE copyedit request

 * Three days after the departure from Lambri, a ship split off and went to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Did it ever rejoin the fleet? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I imagine so, but it's not explicitly stated in the references.--Cold Season (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Leaving as is as there in no more information to go on.


 * Abobadan. Emphasis in original. Is it the same as Abadan, Iran? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not known. The italics indicates a foreign term, a transliteration. The place has not been identified in Dreyer (2007). Looking further, Shih-shan Henry Tsai's Perpetual Happiness: The Ming Emperor Yongle states "Probably, Risagapatam, north India." It's inconclusive. --Cold Season (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Leaving as is as there is no more information to go on.


 * On 2 February, the fleet sailed through the Fuzi Passage (present-day Baimaosha Channel) to the estuary Yangtze River before arriving at Liujiagang the following day (3 February). I'm assuming this is referring to the estuary of the Yangtze located at the junction of the Yellow Sea and East China Sea (source)? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is near where Liujiagang (Liuhe) is located. --Cold Season (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Clarified.


 * The fleet at Hormuz departed on 9 March 1433 and arrived at Calicut on 31 March before leaving on 9 April. Was the entire fleet at Hormuz or was it only a fleet division? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It's probably the main body of it, since not all squadrons followed it but rejoined later on. Hormuz is not known as a place of assembly. --Cold Season (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Leaving as is. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  19:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Paragraph starting with Zheng returned with envoys from 11 countries, including one from Mecca. No action needed. Just letting you know that I removed all "and others" as they were adding unnecessary clutter to the paragraph and did not convey any important information. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * That's alright. --Cold Season (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Their tribute included lions, leopards, dromedary camels, ostriches, zebras, rhinoceroses, antelopes, giraffes, and other exotic animals, causing a great sensation among those at the Ming court. What is this "great sensation"? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It's a general sense of amazement. Duyvendak describes it as The arrival of the ambassadors with their assortment of strange animals caused a sensation at the Court. Even the inscriptions express a sense of marvel at the curious products of the foreign countries.The fu just mentioned eloquently describes the amazement of the courtiers: "All of them, craning their necks looked on with pleasure, and stamping their feet they were scared and startled, thinking that these were things that were rarely heard of in the world and that China had never seen their likeness" l). --Cold Season (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * In that case, how about: Their tribute included lions, leopards [...] and other exotic animals, amazing the courtiers in the Ming court? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  19:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. --Cold Season (talk) 21:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  22:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * On 23 January, the fleet stopped at Xushan, a currently-unknown island in the Yangtze [...] Unknown to this day or just at the time? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It refers to the identity of Xushan. It's not known which of the islands it is. Unidentified is probably a better word. --Cold Season (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Xushan is a string of islands? Is it present-day Daishan County, which comprises multiple islands? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  19:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Island, singular in the ref. Only its name as it was called back then and that it's in the Yangtze is known. That seems too far down the route, if going by the order of the itinerary. --Cold Season (talk) 21:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Added a parenthetical thought stating that it does not have a name today. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  22:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Dreyer (2007) suggests that Hong may also have been involved with several other destinations, such as Djofar, Lasa, Aden, Mogadishu, and Brava. Emphasis in original, strong emphasis added. What is the nature of Hong's involvement? Did he just travel there or did he also do something important at those locations? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It is not explicitly stated. He's known to have split off parts of his division. --Cold Season (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * As it reads right now, the sentences leading up to it imply that the nature of Hong's involvement was that he sent men to accompany ships to those destinations. Is that correct? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  19:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I can't speculate on the nature of the involvement. The involvement is suggested but not explained. --Cold Season (talk) 21:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Leaving as is as there is no more information to go on. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  22:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The Mingshi states that the fleet had 62 treasure ships and a crew of 27,800 for the first voyage. This sentence is already mentioned in the sentences before it. Perhaps merging the citation with the previous sentences would work? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, the paragraph is problematic. The first part is the academic conclusion, while the latter part is more an examination of sources. I'm not sure what to do with it, but have thought about further footnoting the existing material. Perhaps as (rough draft, not opposed to a merge of citations):
 * For the first voyage, the fleet had a personnel of 27,800, as mentioned in the Mingshi, or 27,870 men, as mentioned in Tan Qian's (談遷) Guoque (國確). The treasure fleet comprised a total of 317 ships,  62 of which were treasure ships,  as the Mingshi described, though Dreyer (2007) suggests the possibility of an extra treasure ship as the Guoque described.
 * --Cold Season (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Since attribution is given in-text at the Mingshi, how about integrating the sentences like this? For the first voyage, the fleet had 27,800 or 27,870 men and 317 ships. The Mingshi reports that there was a crew of 27,800 and that 62 of the ships were treasure ships, though Dreyer (2007) suggests the possibility of an extra ship. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  19:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * That sounds good.--Cold Season (talk) 21:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Integrated the sentences. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  22:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Looking forward to your responses! — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  14:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * --Cold Season (talk) 18:06, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Clerked a little and asking for a bit more clarification on some points. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  19:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ping. --Cold Season (talk) 21:10, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Alright, that should be everything! Best of luck! — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  22:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Singapore
details about Singapore should be mentioned in this article.

07:01, 30 January 2023 (UTC)07:01, 30 January 2023 (UTC)07:01, 30 January 2023 (UTC)//////07:01, 30 January 2023 (UTC)~ 43.242.178.225 (talk) 07:01, 30 January 2023 (UTC)