Talk:Miniature Pinscher

Origin
The second sentence in the first paragraph is "quite certain" that the miniature pinscher is descended from a mix of Italian greyhound and Daschund, but the referenced article, from the American Kennel Club, makes it plain that this is speculative at best. William J Bean (talk) 20:27, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Children
The article says Min Pins are "not necessarily bad with children". I'm not sure this is true. I believe a word of caution is in order. Min Pins tend to be more territorial and aggressive around children, especially when they encounter children they haven't met before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jc174 (talk • contribs) 21:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

The above comment has been discarded by a number of behaviourists and owners. Min Pins are not necessarily bad with children; however, if any dog is not socialised or offered the correct guidance, behavioural problems, in this case in regard to children, may emerge. Children should be careful with particularly small or fragile dogs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jc174 (talk • contribs) 21:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.222.221.50 (talk)

Edited Colors Section
Material about efforts to breed new colors was unsourced and not a standard practice for maintaining a consistent, old breed. I also clarified (I hope) the section about what colors are considered standard in the show ring in different countries. There is something of a controversy that the UK allows the blue/rust combination and others do not, but I left out the controversy and just stated the facts. Oh, I also fixed the link to the German Pinschers page here on wikipedia and provided a link to a photo on wikimedia commons, helping to explain that the minpin came before the doberman. Subversified (talk) 04:44, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Removed Image Request
I removed the image request, since we now have images. I replaced an old image with a new one for the table.

This is a link to the old image:

thumb|150px|none|Miniature Pinscher

Roodog2k 16:37, 25 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Elf | Talk 16:48, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I can get photos of a young, fawn coloured miniature pinscher if you like. - raptor 02:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Nothing bad said about the minipin Gotti, but the picture is messy and does not have a very high photographic standard. Should be changed with a more representative picture. --PeterKristo (talk) 18:02, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I've changed the picture of Gotti with another. If somebody want Gotti back, I suggest either taking a new picture, or place it lower down on the page. The image is not representative for race illustration purposes. Gotti's owners: please do not take this personal - Gotti is a beautiful dog! PeterKristo (talk) 17:00, 17 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.94.117 (talk)

Rescue links need to come out
See User_talk:Roodog2k. Elf | Talk 20:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Cleaned up article
changed minpin to Min Pin correctly. Added akc to external links.Also changed some dates in history section. Dos lingo 23:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone who speaks German or knows the meaning of the term needs to correct the definition of "pinscher." In the introductory section it says that Pinscher means "terrier," while the history section says it doesn't mean terrier, but "biter." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.66.52 (talk) 22:40, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * hi. native german here. "pinscher" deviates from "pinschen=kneifen/zwicken" and means "to pinch", -or as you said "biter". the terrier is a totally different kind of dog and is called "terrier" in german too.
 * by the way another thing that catched my eye: reh is the german word for deer. there are still deer in our forests, trust me^^. oh and in germany miniature pinscher are still called zwergpinscher as today. from the article you get the idea that those two were different breeds but they aren't. 92.200.186.240 (talk) 12:13, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I have a general comment about the "Appearence" section of this site. The first couple sentences of the "appearence" section seem to be exact quotes from the American Kennel Club site. I think that the proper practice in this situation is to places the words in quotation marks, instead of simply giving a citation at the end of the line(s). Thoughts, anyone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.73.33.210 (talk) 01:23, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Temperament
There are some really strange phrases under the temperament heading.

Little "Napoleon". Where did that come from?

They look mean. Do they really look mean, or did one person think they looked mean because they saw Resident Evil?

They're not for everyone.

I found this whole section extremely negative. Yes, Min Pins need lots of exercise to help them expel all their energy. They need to be leashed. However, they are also spirited, curious, loving, and lots of fun. My min pin loves kids, is not ever crated, is 100% house/pad trained and as long as we put all our socks away he doesn't chew anything except his toys. If I were to edit this section I would take the whole thing out and rewrite it. Am I allowed to do that? I don't know wikipedia etiquette.

hard to house train and one of the most difficult breeds to housetrain? i am taking this out. this is complete nonsense. a min pin can be house broken within 2-3 weeks without much effort. they love to please and when they see how happy you are at their behavior they repeat it without much trouble. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.249.50.254 (talk) 15:29, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

just saw this...."Little napoleon" is a common name for them, it is written in many books and articles. you can cite if you like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.249.50.254 (talk) 15:32, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Hard to housetrain should be put back in! Just because one person's personal dogs were easy to housetrain is not representative of the breed. It is well documented that the breed is harder to house train (as many smaller dog breeds are.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.223.136 (talk) 18:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think they are hard to train at all. I currently have 2 adults that I'v raised from 2 months, and 2 puppies that are 2 months old. In the past I had one more that I raised to adulthood from a pup. Many other people that I know have mini pinschers that they raised as well. I have never come across anyone that found it hard to train them. This is a relatively easy breed to train.

They are bred to live indoors. I live in an apartment, and most of the people that I know that have pinschers live in apartments... some with roommates. If I hadn't seen it written before that pinschers can get sufficient exercise indoors, I would think maybe the people I know are the exception. However, my common sense is inline with written material that can be found, that says that they're size allows them to get sufficient exercise indoors. Sirpent (talk) 19:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I believe there are serious errors in this section. There seem to be a lot of uncited generalizations. Where's the proof they're hard to housetrain? Mine are both fine. Also, the unprovoked biting stuff....ridiculous statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Breezee88 (talk • contribs) 01:43, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

My Min Pin is 3 years old, and was very stubborn right out of the whelping box. He lives with myself, my husband, and 4 kids. He regards me, and me only, as the "pack leader". He obeys only me, and is very affectionate towards me. He often disobeys ,or disregards orders from other members of our household. He "challenged" me often when he was younger, and also was difficult to house train. He is very intelligent, yet I have found it difficult to teach him tricks at times.

(Last paragraph by someone else.) Hard to house train should be put in. Personal anecdotal experience should not be the basis of if someone feels the breed (as a whole) is more difficult to housebreak than others. There is numerous documentation from trainers and reliable source that state that Min Pins, like many small/toy breeds, rank higher as having a higher likelihood of having housebreaking issues including documentation from the Miniature Pinscher Club of America, Inc.. Note I did not say ALL or even most, we are just talking averages with comparisons to others. Min Pin rescue has oft cited housebreaking as a top reason they are abandoned and there are plenty of references that concur with this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kdntz (talk • contribs) 21:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

This entire section needs to rewritten. There are no citations and as a whole is poorly written. Articles on dogs should not say things like "they need to feel involved" as that assumes something we can not prove, UNLESS you are including it with a citation. Using anthropomorphic language indicates a lack of objectivity. Rephrase with wording such as "Min Pins appear to thrive when they are involved..." or actually the first sentence is enough. The sentence "If you have a bored miniature pinscher it will eventually become destructive" adds nothing that is different from most dogs. Use citation to explain anything that you are stating as a fact. Example: ACK.org lists the Min Pin temperment as "Fearless animation, complete self-possession, and spirited presence." Kdntz (talk) 21:29, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

The Miniature Pinscher Aficionado's ... link needs to come out.
This is a retail site, not a credible source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.223.136 (talk) 18:47, 26 May 2008 (UTC) My Min Pin is 3 years old and was very stubborn right out of the whelping box. He lives with myself, my husband, and 4 kids. He regards me, and me only, as the "pack leader". He obeys only me, and is affectionate, usually, only with me. He also was difficult to house train. He is very intelligent, yet difficult to teach tricks.

Gate vs. Gait
You use the former and I think you mean to use the latter. 76.88.16.180 (talk) 03:21, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Pinscher is the German word for terrier
(From the opening paragraph) I can't find any evidence of this. The German word for terrier, according to my Oxford Duden German dictionary, as well as several online sources, is terrier. I cannot find any instance where pinscher is said to mean terrier. Additionally, the Wikipedia link to pinscher makes no mention of terriers. Novernae (talk) 18:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree as one who has been breeding and raising these dogs for nearly 50 years I learned from friends in Germany that the word "pinscher" translates in English to "pincher". Which in reference to the breed was used to describe the biting action when it holds its prey. When I first mentioned the term Terrier as the definition to Pinscher, they thought it was funny how Americans seem to always assume instead of just asking. According to them, the word pinscher simply put does not translate to terrier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.224.198 (talk) 03:26, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Don't Be Stupid
I have had several dogs in my life including Min-Pins and they are generally VERY good dogs with anybody. Of course there are some exceptions, just like any dog, but you should not judge ALL Min-Pins by the actions of the few, who unfortunatly have poor quality owners. Have you ever heard the saying "You get what you give"? That could not be more true when it comes to dogs. If you do it properly you can train ANY animal to do what you would like it to, even a cat.

Take my animals, for example. I currently have 1 Min-Pin, 1 Pembroke Welsh Corgi, 2 cats and a bird. They are ALL trained to not only do tricks, that's right my cats do tricks, But to co-habitate with each other peacefully. I have never had problems with any of them, period, so if you have problems with your Min-Pin or other pets it is probably your fault. Your pets only goal in life is to make YOU happy. Not itself. I am a firm believer that there is no such thing as a BAD pet, only bad OWNERS. As long as you socialize them properly you will have a GREAT pet.

P.S. You should NEVER fully trust what a retail store has to say because they have an agenda to SELL you a PRODUCT. Not to help you find a PET. I know this because I have worked at a couple of different pet stores, large and small, both out front and back in the kennels. Unfortunatly, to them your future pet is just another piece of inventory. 75.73.135.175 (talk) 16:37, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Is the Miniature Pinscher actually related to the Doberman Pinscher?
Although documentation is fuzzy (I cannot locate any) and despite their physical likeness, the Miniature Pinscher may not be related to the Doberman Pinscher. It is actually believed to be a cross-breeding of the Small Short-haired Terrier with the Dachshund and the Italian Greyhound. At least that's what the breeder told me when I bought my minpin and made the faux pas of referring to it as a miniature Doberman.

My Dog Is Bart (talk) 22:35, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Actually, to answer your question, the miniature pinscher is actually an older breed than the doberman by about a century. The Min Pin is a smaller and more agile version of the German Pinscher (medium size terrier). It was engineered to be a better ratter than the German pinscher by crossing the breed with an Italian gray hound, and a Dachshund. The only thing in common with the doberman and miniature pinscher is that they both were bred off from the German pinscher. The Miniature Pinscher is still a terrier, and the doberman is a great working dog. Both very smart, but the doberman is one of the easier dogs to train in obedience, since they love to please. I am currently raising my first miniature pinscher, and did a lot of research before getting the breed. my young one is a great jogging partner and great in obedience, as well in agility. They are extremely food motivated breed, which makes them easy to train with treats.

Black and Tan Dragon (talk) 19:46, 23 December 2010 (UTC)Black and Tan DragonBlack and Tan Dragon (talk) 19:46, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Provenience
The breed's earliest ancestors may have included the German Pinscher mixed with Italian greyhounds and dachshunds.

"The Miniature Pinscher is not a scaled-down, version of anything, especially the much larger Doberman Pinscher, although both are likely descended from the German Standard Pinscher. It is a distinctly German breed often referred to as the Zwerg or Dwarf Pincher in historical documents. German Kennel Club documents also refer to the Miniature Pinscher as the 'reh' Pinscher, but this term is only used for a dog of stag-red color, 'reh' referring to a small red deer found in German forests years ago. The one fact remains that the Miniature Pinscher originated several centuries ago as an efficient barnyard ratter, with no relation to the Doberman or the Manchester Terrier. The Miniature Pinscher is reported to include the Dachshund and Italian Greyhound among its ancestors. Many historians and those who have researched the background of the breed agree that this heritage is most likely, adding the shorthaired German Pinscher to the family tree. AKC"

This quote is from the American Kennel Club page. The AKC is the major reliable source on any dog related topic. Removing German Pinscher all the time is incorrect. Hafspajen (talk) 16:30, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Gap.
Move tree climbing picture back to the Temperament section left the article with an enormous gap in the middle. Moved where it was before. Hafspajen (talk) 15:26, 18 June 2014 (UTC)