Talk:Ministry (band)/Archive 1

Terry Roberts on guitar or drums?
Currently in the article on the 1990 tour it says "Terry Roberts" was on guitar. Though I once read that the drummer from the legendary punk band Discharge played drums on an early Ministry tour, "Terry Roberts" being the name of the original Discharge drummer and innovator of the D-beat drum sound. Could this be a mistake putting him on guitar or did I read wrong elsewhere? Nagelfar 09:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Terry Roberts or Terry Bones was definitely one of the guitarists on the 1990 tour, referenced in Chris Connelly's spiffing book Concrete, Bulletproof, Invisible and Fried: My Life As a Revolting Cock, not much love lost between the two. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.222.187.60 (talk) 17:20, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Bill Rieflin and Martin Atkins were the drummers for the 1990 tour, so I suspect that Terry Roberts being listed as on guitar is indeed correct. --Hn 00:50, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

==Psalm 69 and Illuminatus!]] The Psalm 69 Album's actual text is based upon the codes at the back of book 3 of the Illuminatus! trilogy. (KΕΦΑΛΗΞΘ)

From memory I think it translates as 23 Skidoo, another Illuminati concept. --Dem 03:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

(KΕΦΑΛΗΞΘ) translates into "Head" --Azderak are you sure, i thought each symbol directly translated into a letter. Dem 04:05, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

KΕΦΑΛΗΞΘ most definitely combines the Greek word for "head" with the Greek letters xi and theta, representing the number 69. The Greeks used their letters to represent numerals, as did the Hebrews. I don't know anything about the occult meaning, but I don't think that matters, because I can read Ancient Greek. I'm changing it. BrianGCrawfordMA 21:38, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

"Stigmata" and Hardware
If anyone wishes to add this tidbit of info to the article (I'm not a great writer), Ministry's 'Stigmata' was featured in the 1990 "industrial" robot-horror movie 'Hardware' http://imdb.com/title/tt0099740/


 * Brilliant film, brilliant song, and they go together so well! But sadly, if you mention that, then you have to start mentioning every other time Ministry has been played less appropriately in a film, and that's just an endless cycle - it turns into a "most obscure Ministry reference in a film" competition. Before anyone even starts: Farenheit 451. Shut up! 05:36, 19 April 2012 (UTC)~

The Fairlight Notation
Does anyone see any reason for it being included, except out of vanity? If not, I'll remove it on Sunday. Rsm99833 14:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

War Metal Genre Add
I've tried a few times to edit this, sorry about not reading my messages for a bit. Ministry fits well under the Genre of "Industrial Metal" (heavy metal, synth, distorted vocals, ect.) but I believe they should also be put under "War metal". Depending on what album you listen to, and after seeing them live, they also have very strong influences to this genre- Including many references to war, nuclear warfeare, politics, and some anti-christian lyrics. Ministry was introduced to me as "war metal", and after seeing them in portland, I was forced to agree. Redwasp 10:18, 2 June 2006
 * First of all "War metal", by it highly disputed definition, is one that is pro-war. I can assure you both with my interaction with the band, and various members, they are anything but. Also, while the dispute is happening on the war metal page in question, I would seriously consider holding off on placing Ministry as an example. I also get the feeling that if you were to ask people there, most would not include them into that catagory. Have a great weekend! Rsm99833 05:39, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * A reference for Ministry being war metal would be nice at the least. GeorgeBills 07:33, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

"War Metal" is the most absurd label I've heard thrown at a band. I think there are more than enough genres and sub-genres as it is. And, as Rsm99833 says, I don't think they're pro-war by any stretch of the imagination. War metal is a subdivision of Viking Metal or something. These dudes are industrial; bands don't get labelled into a genre by their ideologies, but by their sounds. Ministry do not sound like Marduk.

Discog - All Day Everyday - Same Old Madness
Where in the Ministry discography is their track "Same Old Madness?" It sounds like it might be "With Sympathy" era; the video shows them on a merry-go-round...

Every net discography I've come across has listed the WAX007 single as "All Day", with the title track as the A-side and "Everyday (is Halloween)" on the B-side. There also exists, however, a WAX007 with the material on either side flipped, and a cover bearing the "Everyday" title. Anybody have information about this? Were both versions released simultaneously, or was "All Day" the original single and later revised, due to the popularity of its B-side? Renfield 17:38, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Filth Pig Description
The following passage contains a weasel word and should either be clarified, sourced or removed.

"Filth Pig was supported with the singles/videos Reload, The Fall, Lay Lady Lay (an unusual and unexpected cover of Bob Dylan's old country-tinged hit) and Brick Windows and with a tour in 1996 (the live performances were later anthologized on the Sphinctour album and DVD in 2002), but was unenthusiastically received and was thought by some to be a lazy effort." 67.9.182.62 22:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

"Halloween" gold certification
In addition to the albums, the single "(Everyday is) Halloween" was also certified gold by the RIAA, I believe in 1989 or so. It was in an article in Billboard magazine, though I am having difficulty finding a citation. The article stated it was the first gold single for Wax Trax! Records. I'm certain of teading the article, but the present RIAA database does not mention it, possibly because Wax Trax! is not a present RIAA member. Any assistance or feedback in this matter would be appreciated.

Porphyrous 05:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Goths don't wear gold! We wear silver!
 * But seriously, there has to be some documentation out there. And it has to be. Because Every Day is Halloween is playing right now in a goth club somewhere in the world, no matter when you read this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.108.8 (talk) 22:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Regarding The Land of Rape and Honey's use of guitar
So is written in the article:

"After Twitch, Jourgensen made the most significant change in Ministry's history when he became re-enchanted with the instrument he had taken up years earlier: the electric guitar. This new sound in Ministry's music was almost certainly influenced by Killing Joke and Chicago's Big Black (...)".

A) Though Ministry's music owes big time to such Post-punk luminaries as Killing Joke and Public Image Ltd., I think Ministry's Industrial metal owes much more to Hardcore punk, Thrash metal and Noise rock.

B) Al Jourgensen claimed he wasn't aware of Big Black until after the release of The Land of Rape and Honey (or later). Matters further complicated when he had a much publicized fall-out with Steve Albini. That makes highly unlikely for any praise to come from the Ministry camp regarding Big Black. Bottom line: I suggest removing Big Black as an influence...

C) The electric guitar and Industrial music weren't exactly strangers to each other. From Cabaret Voltaire's "Nag Nag Nag" (1979) to Skinny Puppy's "Dig It" (1986), Industrial artists sometimes experimented with guitar sounds.

D) The band that probably influenced most on Ministry's Industrial/Metal direction was The Young Gods. Remember that their seminal 1986 single, "Envoyé", was released on the US by Wax Trax! Records. When the The Young Gods finally came to America, Al Jourgensen greeted them as being "the best band in the world" and delivered high praises to their "Envoyé" single, especifically the song's weird guitar riff.

I hope that helps.

201.50.70.228 12:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Last Sucker as last album
Can someone provide a citation for this? I'll tag it as unreferenced for the time being. AxiomShell 11:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Found reference. AxiomShell 12:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

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Categories
[To Angry Shoplifter on user talk page] OK, I see your point about genre-transcendence, but some of the categories reinserted are truly redundant. If the article is placed in a Chicago cat, they don't also need to be in the Illinois and American cat. Similarly, but specifically, "Industrial metal musical groups" and "Industrial rock musical groups" are in "Industrial musical groups" so the latter is unnecessary; "American alternative metal musical groups" is already in "Alternative metal musical groups" and so on. If there are categories that don't overlap, I agree they should go in. But the hierarchy thing ("suspension bridges" and "bridges") is a guideline. dfg (talk) 19:37, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine, we'll exclude the American rock category (FYI pure industrial music isn't a rock subgenre, but "Illinois heavy metal" is, so whatev) and the alt. metal one w/o America, but keep the rest. As for Chicago/Illinois musical groups, last time I checked you categorize both the home city (if applicable) and state/providence. Angry Shoplifter (talk) 20:17, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Really? I wasn't aware of that last bit, but I don't keep up much on that end of things. I looked at WP:CAT and WP:SUBCAT but I didn't see anything. dfg (talk) 20:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Angry, we didn't reach consensus here about putting that category (Industrial music groups) back in. I know you have issues with the genre definitions here, but you have to take that to the cat pages themselves, or Wikiproject:music or something. Technically, the article shouldn't have a listing in "Industrial rock music groups" because it's already in "Industrial metal music groups" which is a subcat of "Industrial rock music groups". Man, this really isn't even worth the effort, but I think we should abide by the existing guidelines. dfg (talk) 04:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My mistake for industrial rock, but didn't we agree on pure industrial music earlier? NOT ALL OF Ministry's releases are industrial metal, so pure industrial must be mentioned for their earlier material, mostly from '81-'87. You even agreed to add any overlapping genres earlier, so I don't know what you're thinking. BTW, I didn't add Illinois musical groups just cuz. Angry Shoplifter (talk) 06:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have an idea. Why don't you add the multiple genres/classifications to the infobox section, since I don't know of any specific guideline for that area, and then there's no contradicting the WP:CAT guideline and getting reverted all the time by other editors? dfg (talk) 15:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The infobox is already sufficient, but regardless, all applying categories must still be there as they have nothing to do with the infobox. Adding an overlapping category for good reason won't get reverted "all the time", and even in other situations categories usually DON'T get patrolled or changed that often even if incorrect. I seem to be the only person here who patrols and fixes categories for music articles. Besides, WP:CAT says there could be overlapping exceptions (like here) and you agreed earlier to add overlapping categories anyway. So I'll just add Industrial music groups as a category now, and we're all good. k? Angry Shoplifter (talk) 17:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Since we're kinda butting heads here, and it's just the two of us discussing this on the talk page, why don't we wait or look for more opinions from other editors to develop a broader consensus? Also, I imagine this kind of debate has gone on before; do you know if any Wikiproject has discussed this at all? dfg (talk) 18:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Was?
Ministry released a new compilation that featured newly recorded tracks this year. What makes everyone think they're no more? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.236.148.191 (talk) 17:56, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Al needs more drugs, so they're back together again. Yey!  Lugnuts  (talk) 13:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

bloodlines?
Is this a band that plays one of Vampire Masquerade: Bloodlines songs? Shouldn't it be referenced somewhere in the article, not only in game article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.122.23.35 (talk) 19:53, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to do so! MrMoustacheMM (talk) 00:30, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It is listed over at Ministry discography -- Foetusized (talk) 00:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Then nevermind what I said before, that article seems to be the best spot for that info. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 00:49, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Have they split yet?
I know Al said From Beer to Eternity would be their last album, and that's now been released, but is there supposed to be a tour to follow it, or is that it for the band? It's kind of unclear to me especially considering nobody's updated the years active or anything like that to indicate they have split up. Vicious Friendly Fish (talk) 17:54, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Per WP:CRYSTAL, we can't add such information as there is not official statement from the band that they're disbanded. Also, we can't yet be sure that the album would be Ministry's last because Uncle Al has previously disproven us on these issues.


 * The best is to wait until an official statement is released, if any will. Myxomatosis57 (talk) 19:27, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Ah, yes. I'm aware that other Ministry albums were supposed to be "the last", but even if it isn't, there's a chance the band will take a few years off, and when possible, this should be reflected in the "years active".Vicious Friendly Fish (talk) 10:16, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Do you have a source saying they will take a few years off? Until one can be provided, this should not be added. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 17:09, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with MrMoustacheMM. Also please check the WP:CRYSTAL guideline, which I've mentioned in my initial response. Myxomatosis57 (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Members
In the infobox and the template below, Casey Orr e.g. is a member, but he also feature in the Former members-section, so... which is it? TherasTaneel (talk) 04:10, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Timeline infographic issue: Mike Scaccia appears after his own death
In the timeline plot it looks like Mike Scaccia is a band member until 2014, yet the article notes that he died in 2012. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richierocks (talk • contribs) 11:18, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

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Chris Connelly member
Is there a good reason for listing Chris Connelly under "Additional/touring members" and not "Former members"? He's featured on two studio album's (The Mind.. and Land of..), he does lead vocals on "Never Believe", "Cannibal Song" and "So What" and he's listed as an additional musician together with Bill Rieflin. Ytrearneindre (talk) 20:21, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually only Al and Paul were "official" members of the band since ’86/’87 until 2003 so Chris and Bill does not count as former members. For example, here's a quote from Rieflin's interview to Ink 19 (Nov ’99):"If we go back in time and you ask me “Why did you leave Ministry?” My other answer is “I never was in Ministry.” Now, how do I come to that conclusion? Well, I think that conclusion is based on observable facts. If you observe the records, all of the records, I am always credited as an “other” musician, and Ministry is Paul and Al. So, I was never in Ministry, therefore I never left the band." Sincerely, Gleb95 (talk) 10:55, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

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Are they really pioneers of industrial metal (beside a popular opinion)?
I mean, are there some reliable sources for this? Gleb95 (talk) 12:47, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * B.U.M.P. Gleb95 (talk) 07:59, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Most sources I find appear to describe them as one of the acts that popularized the industrial metal rather than actually pioneering it. These sources still list them as an influential band though. This source calls them as pioneers, while XLR8R states that they influenced every other industrial metal band actually coming after them. Myxomatosis57 (talk) 10:56, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Page for AmeriKKKant?
Should there be a page for the upcoming album? I just want to know if there should be, or if we should wait till the release date to create the page. A Carbon Based Life Form (talk) 19:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

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