Talk:Ministry of Culture and Media (Croatia)

Budget
Here is a example of a currency code, and it is after the amount. Find a different example and discuss. Now leave it as it was before.  Also this:  Position of ISO 4217 code in amounts

The ISO standard does not regulate either the spacing, prefixing or suffixing in usage of currency codes. According however to the European Union's Publication Office,[5] in English, Irish, Latvian and Maltese texts, the ISO 4217 code is to be followed by a fixed space and the amount:

a sum of EUR 30

In Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Italian, Lithuanian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovene, Spanish and Swedish the order is reversed; the amount is followed by a fixed space and the ISO 4217 code:

une somme de 30 EUR --Tuvixer (talk) 10:26, 21 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Right. And which language is used on this Wikipedia? Also, see MOS:CURRENCY.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 18:07, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Infobox
Please stop, why are you doing this? I will put the source for employees, that is not a problem, tomorrow i will get the book. Please stop reverting the articles, please. ok? why are you doing this? :( --Tuvixer (talk) 22:22, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


 * A friend of mine has sent me the data about the employees and he sent me a book that i can source so i will do that tomorrow. ok, please don't revert it because that is the data from February 2015. Just if i have missed put the HRK in front of the number if that so bothers you. --Tuvixer (talk) 22:45, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Now I have added the source. http://libraries.uniri.hr/cgi-bin/lb05/unilib.cgi?form=D1100230084 Ok now? --Tuvixer (talk) 10:24, 26 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Here is a better citation, with the exact date: --Tuvixer (talk) 10:40, 26 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Unsouurced content can be removed instantly, next time find a source before editing articles.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 12:47, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, stop reverting currency symbols - their placement is defined in MOS and was discussed in the topic above.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 12:48, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I was not reverting currency symbols. You have reverted the sourced text so I reverted it back. Be careful because the budget was sourced and you reverted that. --Tuvixer (talk) 13:22, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Why did you remove the increased/decreased? --Tuvixer (talk) 13:25, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Because it's useless. Increased/decreased from what? By how much? Since when? The last annual budget or the last budget reshuffle? Putting in red and green triangles offers virtually no information value, it just produces clutter in infoboxes.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 14:28, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * No it is not useless. It gives good information compared to the last years budget. If you want I will put the source of the last years budget so it will be sourced. --Tuvixer (talk) 15:06, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it is very much useless. It does not account for the reasons of budget changes (various agencies constantly keep moving in and out of ministries), the idiotic triangles do not show what the figures are compared to, and it gives very little informative value. I guess you'll have to find someone else agreeing with you on the necessity of putting meaningless triangles in infoboxes. (The kune amounts are pretty much useless already and the employee numbers are dubious as well). Adding in triangles to it only increases clutter.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 15:15, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Why are the employee numbers dubious?????? I am sorry if you do not know to read Croatian or are unable to borrow a book in Croatian, that is not my problem. It is sourced. So please before you revert all my work just try to discuss it before. What makes clutter as you say is putting the HRK in front of the amount. And that is the case only in this article and other about ministries, all other articles that have HRK place HRK after the amount. Every edit I make on Wikipedia is reverted by you. Why are you so mean. And I will report you to the staff for harassment if you do that again. There was no reason to revert the edits I made to the articles regarding the ministries. You are just mean. Please just leave me alone. --Tuvixer (talk) 15:26, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * You went on a wholesale reverting spree after you abandoned the discussion above, a discussion in which you yourself cited reasons against your position. And I gave you at least five reasons why we don't need any fucking triangles in infoboxes on Croatian government ministries. You don't own this article, you don't own this topic area and you don't own Wikipedia. Just because something is "sourced" it does not mean it is useful. Wikipedia is not a repository of meaningless crap. Get a fucking consensus before edit-warring again, or I will report you instantly for trolling.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 15:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I've been invited to join the discussion by Tuvixer. Are these your only differences ? -- Director  ( talk )  16:06, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * No. This "discussion" is about triangles. Red triangles and green triangles. Triangles pointing up and triangles pointing down. And about your friend Tuvixer trollfesting his way around here.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 16:15, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Are you afraid of little triangles? Please be constructive. Don't insult other users.
 * All you have said to me, you were saying about yourself. timbouctou you do not own this article and please stop acting like that. You are not allowing improvements to the article and again please don't insult other users, that only goes to your disadvantage.--Tuvixer (talk) 18:39, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I have made a request for a 3O. Tnx. --Tuvixer (talk) 18:51, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Third Opinion
I see that there has been a WP:3O request about little triangles, but I don't see any little triangles on the article page, and I don't know what the question is on which a third opinion is being requested. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:59, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * @Robert McClenon Look what timbouctou has reverted. He is talking about triangles because he is rude. I have placed increase/decrease symbols in the Annual budget row in the infobox to show if the budget of the ministry was increased or decreased compared to the last year. But timbouctou does not agree that it should be in the article. I think I was clear enough also about the currency symbol. Tnx. :)--Tuvixer (talk) 19:08, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Comment - I'm not sure if this starts to impinge on WP:SYNTH, but wouldn't using any indicator of an increase or decrease require TWO sources? One to show the previous year and a second to show that it had increased or decreased? Or a source actually stating the change between the 2 years being cited. Without that, this discussion is moot. I reviewed the edit history and did not see this. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:28, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * @Scalhotrod there is no need for that I can just add the source for the last year. The content that uses math does not have to be cited, it is math. :) --Tuvixer (talk) 19:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree since basic math is an allowable form of analysis. I would recommend using the same base source (same website, but different year's data) as opposed to two completely different websites and the "little triangle" should be fine or at least non-contentious. I'm taking this off my Watch list now. Hvala --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:55, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure. Here is the source:
 * http://www.mfin.hr/hr/drzavni-proracun-2014-godina Nema na čemu. :) --Tuvixer (talk) 20:08, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

lets be frank - you're being hostile to the user because of political differences. Yes, he's making "newbie" errors here and there - but his edits are generally pretty decent for a new editor (based on sources, for example). If you didn't WP:BITE him so many times there wouldn't be antagonism here, and you could intercede and fix whatever he may have gotten wrong due to a lack of experience. But again, because of politics, you didn't AGF, and now he's suspicious of you even when you're right. I would be too. Imo you've lost the high ground you would have had had you not been so confrontational (as you generally are when you think someone is left-wing).

A good approach (for future reference) is to check other, older articles on enWiki to see whether your edits are how we usually convey things. E.g. whether triangles are used there or not, or whether we include a particular piece of info there or somewhere else. Like you did with the PM article. Otherwise your edits can often seem kind of unusual and weird :), even if they're perfectly well sourced. This raises alarm bells for possible political promotion among users (that perceive themselves as being) on the opposite side of the spectrum. Also, if you have a source - add it right away. You'll notice there will be far less problems. -- Director  ( talk )  22:22, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Ok, tnx for your advice. :) For example I have looked on the economy article about Wikipedia and there the HRK is after the summ, but someone is against that. You know who. The increase/decrease is a nice addition to the article, and I have put the source for last year. Is that ok? :)--Tuvixer (talk) 22:33, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Referencing symbols is quite an innovative approach. I'm sure the readers will be thrilled. Also, too bad you seem to be too busy to consult WP:MOS on currency formatting - but you have all the time in the world to scream about your political preferences.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 04:53, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * @Timbouctou Are you ok with changing HRK to kn. Referencing symbols is all because of you. Are you ok now if the reference next to the increase/decrease indicator is removed? Tnx. --Tuvixer (talk) 08:17, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Kuna should stay as it is per WP:MOS. And referencing is used not because of me but because of Wikipedia's rules. Btw, have you seen triangles in any similar article on Wikipedia or is this purely your invention? <span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> Timbouctou (<span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> talk ) 11:08, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Why are you then complaining about the reference? Sure increase/decrease are all over Wikipedia. So you are against the change from "HRK" to "kn"? --Tuvixer (talk) 14:47, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * "All over Wikipedia"? I'll take that as a no then. <span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> Timbouctou (<span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> talk ) 21:29, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Civility
I came to this article because a third opinion was requested. What I have found is that there is great incivility on this talk page. Some editors in Wikipedia seem to think that civility is optional or encouraged. It is not optional. It is required everywhere in Wikipedia. Croatia is in the Balkan region as usually defined, so that this article is subject to ArbCom discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBMAC, which permit disruptive editors to be topic-banned or blocked. Be civil. Stop insulting each other. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)